[bedelman]

For those who follow the 180solutions' exclusions list - http://www.benedelman.org/spyware/180-affiliates/exclusions.html (the list of domains that are intentionally not targeted by any popups from 180solutions or its advertisers), I've recently seen a new development: 180 has recently dropped from its exclusion list a total of 204 domains previously excluded, including 188 LinkShare merchants.

That means there are lots of LinkShare merchants now at risk of targeting by 180, where they were safe mere weeks ago. Some examples: apple.com, dell.com, disney.go.com, ftd.com, macys.com, mcafee.com, target.com, walmart.com.

I don't have any way to know for sure what triggered this policy change. But recall that I last month reported LinkShare dropping 180solutions from its program. It seems reasonable to think that 180 decided to return to targeting LinkShare merchants as a consequence of LinkShare's decision to disallow 180's direct participation in LinkShare's affiliate network.


Reference:
http://www.benedelman.org/spyware/180-affiliates/exclusions.html

[Zeus]

Kellie - The Networks have always said they would rather work with the parasites than boot them because they have more ability to control their behavior. This is most likely an example of that very argrument.

They should have never been accepted by any network. Period. The networks did a lot to help them to take off and gave them the legitimacy needed to get investors' money. That's wrong. With such money in their hands, they are really out of control, now. We can thank the networks for that.

[Gordon]

The Networks have always said they would rather work with the parasites than boot them because they have more ability to control their behavior. This is most likely an example of that very argrument.

Sorry Ms.B I have to disagree on this one. Even though they actually did say that, the real reason is very different as we can all imagine. The REAL reason the Networks said they would rather work with the parasites is because they wanted their cut from all the stolen sales. Pure and simply the reason was nothing but greed and to hell with the merchants and affiliates, so long as us Networks get our cut stuff em!!

I think this is far more likely to be the real reason than the lame excuse they actually offered don't you?

[cditty]

I agree with Gordon. I would rather have them out of the networks. This way they won't overwrite my cookies and then the merchants can get a taste of what it is like when their competition starts to advertise on their sites. Let the merchants deal with the crap and let them foot the bill for a change.

Chris

[chetf]

Back on topic.

But what does this change say? Does this hint there was a formal relationship with Linkshare? Did they make a deal with what they saw as a problem, but said - if you keep that problem off our frontyard we will ignore it? I would be interested to see Linkshare weigh in on this, because empowering a negative force is not a positive. Was their a formal deal with 180?

Chet

[cditty]

Unfortunately Chet, that is something that will never make the light of day.

Chris

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Thread split to stay "On Topic"

[SSanf]

YES! The networks made them as strong as they are. They should never have been allowed in.

ALL networks should boot them, now!

Let the chips fall where they may.

I 100% agree with Gordon. The networks sold us down the river!

[MichaelColey]

[Glad to see the thread split so this can stay on topic!]

I agree with those who say that they shouldn't have been allowed in the networks in the first place! However, Mrs. B. still makes a very valid point. Stephen from Linkshare argued the same point. Now that 180 Solutions is no longer excluding Linkshare merchants, he will likely use this as an "I told you so". The networks do have more control over the parasites when they allow them in the network. But that still doesn't mean they should allow them in the network. The limited amount of good from that still outweighs the bad.

[Trust]

Merchants can stop this anytime they want.

[ecomcity]

Care to guess the take for LS and 180Solutions, while they were under the network's controlling influence? Obviously the falling out was over some petty issues like... how do we bleed any more out of the domain bound affiliates... or someone to reduce their cut. It sure wasn't some majority vote taken by the Linkshare Professional Management Group running merchant programs.

[Zeus]

How do you call the action to put a company on an exclusion list? (or do the opposite) I call that racket. Now, the merchants can go after them. There's not anymore a confused relationship between networks, affiliates, merchants.

[Trust]

I'm curious to know how many LS merchants that can now be targetted by 180 have other parasites in their program. They may be targetted but then they may have other parasites in their program that target other merchants and affiliates. One big pop happy mess.

[Nova]

It's just like any decease! It should've taken care of from the beginning, but greed got the best of alot of people and now it's hell to try to cure the virus!

[MichaelColey]

One other point I meant to make earlier but forgot... I think the best way for networks (and merchants) to handle this is with legal action rather than trying to work with the parasites.

[Zeus]

I agree. A legal action can do miracles. They can even disappear overnight. I've seen that not so long ago.

[Donuts]

I work mainly with indies and am sad to report that 180 screamed into my indies neighborhood, with strength and precision, during the 4th quarter of 2004. They are now entrenched outside of the networks as well. And earning a lot.

In several niches I play in, I have seen the Google PPC bids come down by over 30% (and still declining) as the ability to profit has been diluted with parasitic advertisers (I bet Google's doing some studying on this as well).

I have also seen many affiliate merchants completely turn off their own (formerly profitable) internal PPC campaigns.

When you're forced to share your revenue with people who did nothing to earn them, the revenue / advertising spend ratio goes to turnips.

And for those of you that bother with afsrc=1, you'll be disappointed to hear that my own testing shows me, where I looked (admittedly very limited areas and merchants), that it's utterly ignored. I suspect this is a factor in whatever LS evolutions we're seeing now - but just a guess. We'll have to wait for LinkShare to tell us. And say what you want about LS, one strength they have is their founder and CEO is a lawyer (a very good one I've heard). He is the type that the scum shouldn't push too far - but I really hope they did. If SteveM breaks out of his tolerating-to-steer-them mode, and a battle breaks out - he's got to have the upper hand given what he knows about them. I'm hoping we're seeing him about to open a whole can on them.

[SSanf]

OK, it is well past time someone with a little muscle take these dastards on! I really hope LS rises to the occasion!

[Drewbert]

>And say what you want about LS, one strength they have is their founder and CEO
>is a lawyer

Strength?

Only if he's REALLY working for us rather than his parasitic customers.

[Gordon]

I seem to remember one of the biggest parasites is *bates and from what I gather the owner of it is also a lawyer.

[Donuts]

Gordon, like your tag line says, I'm just hoping for...

One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.

[ecomcity]

Well the lawyers and Judges and Politicians will be up to their ears in the battle against Spyware/Adware. I see Michigan's Anti-Spyware Laws are moving forward which allow for individuals to sue the perps hijacking their systems. Florida and others will hopefully copy this legislation as a stick for their legal sharks. The Supreme court is smelling under the covers of the P2P infestation points seeking to protect copywrite works and trademarks from the Adwhores.

The Freebee pushing wanks, panhandling for infestation fees, might get tarred and feathered when the media sniffs out they're the main source for the hijackers to entice children to infect mom & dads systems. Would be nice to wake up one day and see the variants of the keyword Freebee removed from all SERPS.

Look at the positive. Without spending a cent the forces against the darkside Adwhores are getting legal battles popping up all over the place with primetime media coverage of the carnage. My Safe Haven Network plan is looking like the most viable alternative to the existing advertising network model for merchants/affiliates/consumers as any popup alerts the shopper their system is infested. Not one penny can be earned from a S/W BHO affiliate from a SHN sale.

I'll bet the day will come when Stephen wished he'd sent me the $10,000 to license the Safe Haven Network model when offered over a year ago.

[Donuts]

Originally Posted by ecomcity

I'll bet the day will come when Stephen wished he'd sent me the $10,000 to license the Safe Haven Network model when offered over a year ago.

How much?

[qball0213]

You know it's a shame, Porter has conducted two interviews about 180 solutions, one with a rep of 180, and the other with Jeff Doak, Chief Technology Officer, of Kowabunga Technologies, and we can't link to them from this site. It would be good for merchants and affiliates to read them.

[Trust]

It was a good read. They gave their usual spin and BS.

Jeff from Kowabunga