[Rick - Bitcom]

What is the best book (or ebook) about PPC and how to get up to speed? I hear good things about someone named Perry Marshall.

[Trust]

Donuts should make one

[loxly]

Originally Posted by TrustNo1

Donuts should make one

It would be an instant best seller But I don't think he wants to give away his secrets.....

[karomesis]

GigaGolf, some of the best info on PPC can be found on the forums dedicated exclusively to it. Adwords reps from google hang out in some of the better ones like seowatch.

go a google search on adwords, YSM, or adcenter forums and you'll see what I mean.

You get to hear people who have been doing it for years discussing the pros and cons of various methods and with the added benefit of not having to pay for it, and not wondering of it's outdated info either.

[webworker]

If I were to buy a book on PPC I'd head over to Amazon and get Andrew Goodman's (hardbound I believe, around $15-16) and something else also, to get free shipping with a $25 order.

[Donuts]

Thanks TN1 and Lox, appreciate those kind of comments from my peers.

The Perry Marshall book is not a bad place to start, same with Goodman's. However, things change and books get out of date very quickly. Most people will also find that books have one short coming (which isn't the books fault) - people learn in stages - they progress from novice to average to master, mainly through experience, and usually only where desire, need and some positive feedback routinely occurs. People try to read books with the expectation that it will take them from A to Z. Books address one stage usually - the one the reader is at and maybe one step ahead of that. Even here, the expectation is a book that will get you up to speed... as in, full throttle... is off kilter. In ppc-land, full throttle can get an average user into debt really quickly. And can break a novice. So think about what a book can and should do for you and then consider if it combined with having closer relationships with your ppc affiliates, inhouse ppc team, peer AMs, consultants and others may be a path better guided. And take your time, nothing worthwhile is mastered in a week.

The PM book is good for neophytes for sure, maybe great. For an average user, it's just average - but still worthwhile. For a master, it's almost empty.

Forums are great because as you progress, you can find peers at, behind and above your present stage. There are plenty of good posts here at ABW in all 3 categories. Many people here will answer any questions - even ones considered juicy and valuable - if it's evident that the person asking is putting out real effort to learn and is also giving back to this community where they can.

Books have one other inherent negative - superfluousness - they need to write enough to fill a book - to be a book - to sell a book. Often, when I read a technical book, I take notes. Often, my notes for a 200 page book don't fill a single page. Not the book's fault or the author's, it's the essence of a book - depth. But don't be fooled by depth, it's often overkill. An example...

I could write a few chapters about the display url -or- just tell you to do #1 for a search for "boat anchors":

1: BoatAccessories.com/Anchors
2: www.boataccessories.com/mechanical/prod-312-14.html
3: www.boataccessories.com

I think this free report is better than any ppc book I've read - but I tend to recognize concentratred knowledge as being better bang for the buck (I mean time here, not dollars):
http://www.marketingexperiments.com/...py-tested.html

I look forward to discussing specific ppc topics with you and others here.

Good luck!

[karomesis]

Donuts, do you think experience is the most valuble teacher?

it certainly seems to be that way with adwords, you can only learn so much....and then you mut leave the nest and attempt flight on your own

And there don't seem to be many "secrets" either, just alot of hard work, testing and not giving up if you fail.

[Rhia7]

Thanks for the link marketingexperiments.com, Donuts -- it's a really interesting and helpful site for many related topics

[Alan Hamilton]

Thanks for the link Donuts. You PPC comments are always a help to me and I appreciate that you share the knowlede.

Thanks D

[Matt McWilliams]

Very, Very cool Donuts!

Cannot believe I have not seen it before.

Thanks a million!

[Donuts]

Originally Posted by karomesis

Donuts, do you think experience is the most valuble teacher?

Yes, of course.

I have learned to make myself some fairly firm rules to live by. I have also learned that my own rules need to be broken at times to fit the situation.

There are too many variables to do it the same way for different products, engines, methods, networks, niches, etc.

If you have a high degree of curiousity and like to do experiments and analyze data, you'll probably do better than most. But you must also be ready for action, you can't study it to death. And ego control is super important - I have accepted that I will fail to do well on projects and that I also cannot accurately predict which ones they might be. One of my best returning (ongoing!) projects is one Andy Rodriguez asked me 7 times to try - I kept telling him I thought it wouldn't work at all. I was wrong. Another case of Andy's that I thought I could make a killing - it was in an area where I previously worked as a consultant and I know the customers / buyers, competitors and market far better than others - and I failed to produce a positive roi on that project and shut it down.

As an affiliate, I'll try many things, even where my intuition hints otherwise - I'm more often right now because of my deep experience - but failing is not a huge disappointment for me - I know it'll come along when I least expect it. If you can mature to where your ego can take lumps while you retain a completely reasonable grip on your analytical ability, you're good to go.

Last week, I started 2 completely new projects (1 SAS merchant and 1 at LinkShare, both are ABW members), ads are running very well, but sales are slow. It just got started though and I can afford to be patient because my stable of sites and ppc projects and consulting clients is large. Anyhow I'll run both for several more weeks and see what happens. If I can tune either correctly, I'll crank it up to full throttle. When I get one of those types of setups working optimally, the amount of sales that I can move daily is pretty impressive - but not every project works out that way. Merchants should make sure the landscape is open for many affs to try to find things that work.

This coming week, same thing - totally new project for me coming online. A great AM who is a personal friend of mine and a product I've never tried before as well as the merchant being literally brand spanking new. It's a high end fashion item that women buy - my friends and family laugh at the huge variety of products that I sell.

I also own a large inventory of my own websites and drive tons of ppc there as well. That ppc has very high returns because I have designed the sites beforehand for effective relevancy and specificity for certain ppc keywords. Many merchants don't build effective keyword groupings into their site's navigation that's consistent with their target ppc keyword's popularity - when I find those situations, I'll often build a site who purpose is largely navigation and architecture that will make my ppc superior (and complimentary) to the merchant's inhouse ppc (and stomps their competitors too).

Along the way, I learned seo. I have some sites where I have the #1 spot for a target keyword for both ppc and seo results - those spots are where I do my happy dance. One big drawback to direct-to-merchant ppc is that you get no collateral seo benefits and you don't build any brand that you own. So I do both in my business, domain bound and direct-to-merchant. I think it better prepares me for industry changes - like if G all of the sudden banned direct-to-merchant ppc, I'll live just fine. As an affiliate, you pursue success - if you think like I do, part of success means you have the security that comes from diversification. So try something new - branch out - use new techniques.

And I'm not alone. I have friends that do similar things and several of them sell a lot more than I do. I have one friend that sells over 100 satellite tv systems per day - in that market, I gotta tell you, he's totally killing it. My other buddy sells a few truck loads of shoes every day.

When I started doing ppc, I bid $0.10 a click and limited my budget to $1.00 a day. If you lack experience, cautious patience is the right approach.

[loxly]

donuts, I am printing that post and putting it on the wall behind my computer, it should be required reading for all affiliates, doing ppc or not.

[karomesis]

f I can tune either correctly, I'll crank it up to full throttle. When I get one of those types of setups working optimally, the amount of sales that I can move daily is pretty impressive -

In those types of situations, do you find that once a positive ROI is reached,it generally correlates when the ante is upped?

So if campaign x brings in a positive ROI on test mode, once you up the parameters to maximize traffic, your ROI will usually stay the same with increased volume.

I have been creating a database of relevant information across industries and seasonal trends, do you think that it's a little over the top for PPC? or is all data extremely valuble when considering new niches and campaigns? I just don't want to think myself to death, which seems to be where I'm headed.

[Adam Ward]

>>>friend that sells over 100 satellite tv systems per day...

And I'll bet they are not paying the Rack Rate!

[Donuts]

Originally Posted by Adam Ward

>>>friend that sells over 100 satellite tv systems per day...

And I'll bet they are not paying the Rack Rate!

No, they certainly do have an excellent premium rate for their volume!

[Donuts]

Originally Posted by karomesis

In those types of situations, do you find that once a positive ROI is reached,it generally correlates when the ante is upped?

So if campaign x brings in a positive ROI on test mode, once you up the parameters to maximize traffic, your ROI will usually stay the same with increased volume.

I have been creating a database of relevant information across industries and seasonal trends, do you think that it's a little over the top for PPC? or is all data extremely valuble when considering new niches and campaigns? I just don't want to think myself to death, which seems to be where I'm headed.

Each effort is different, you can't summarily answer your first question. You've got to try it and know how it behaves, to know the answer. It can turn out too many ways.

Your database efforts are way over the top - it's performance data that matters most, not the predictive type. Predicting is for soothsayers. Performance is for achievers. Stop collecting predictive data - it's almost useless.

[johnnyWebAffiliate]

Originally Posted by Donuts

Yes, of course.

I have learned to make myself some fairly firm rules to live by. I have also learned that my own rules need to be broken at times to fit the situation.

There are too many variables to do it the same way for different products, engines, methods, networks, niches, etc.

If you have a high degree of curiousity and like to do experiments and analyze data, you'll probably do better than most. But you must also be ready for action, you can't study it to death. And ego control is super important - I have accepted that I will fail to do well on projects and that I also cannot accurately predict which ones they might be. One of my best returning (ongoing!) projects is one Andy Rodriguez asked me 7 times to try - I kept telling him I thought it wouldn't work at all. I was wrong. Another case of Andy's that I thought I could make a killing - it was in an area where I previously worked as a consultant and I know the customers / buyers, competitors and market far better than others - and I failed to produce a positive roi on that project and shut it down.

As an affiliate, I'll try many things, even where my intuition hints otherwise - I'm more often right now because of my deep experience - but failing is not a huge disappointment for me - I know it'll come along when I least expect it. If you can mature to where your ego can take lumps while you retain a completely reasonable grip on your analytical ability, you're good to go.

Last week, I started 2 completely new projects (1 SAS merchant and 1 at LinkShare, both are ABW members), ads are running very well, but sales are slow. It just got started though and I can afford to be patient because my stable of sites and ppc projects and consulting clients is large. Anyhow I'll run both for several more weeks and see what happens. If I can tune either correctly, I'll crank it up to full throttle. When I get one of those types of setups working optimally, the amount of sales that I can move daily is pretty impressive - but not every project works out that way. Merchants should make sure the landscape is open for many affs to try to find things that work.

This coming week, same thing - totally new project for me coming online. A great AM who is a personal friend of mine and a product I've never tried before as well as the merchant being literally brand spanking new. It's a high end fashion item that women buy - my friends and family laugh at the huge variety of products that I sell.

I also own a large inventory of my own websites and drive tons of ppc there as well. That ppc has very high returns because I have designed the sites beforehand for effective relevancy and specificity for certain ppc keywords. Many merchants don't build effective keyword groupings into their site's navigation that's consistent with their target ppc keyword's popularity - when I find those situations, I'll often build a site who purpose is largely navigation and architecture that will make my ppc superior (and complimentary) to the merchant's inhouse ppc (and stomps their competitors too).

Along the way, I learned seo. I have some sites where I have the #1 spot for a target keyword for both ppc and seo results - those spots are where I do my happy dance. One big drawback to direct-to-merchant ppc is that you get no collateral seo benefits and you don't build any brand that you own. So I do both in my business, domain bound and direct-to-merchant. I think it better prepares me for industry changes - like if G all of the sudden banned direct-to-merchant ppc, I'll live just fine. As an affiliate, you pursue success - if you think like I do, part of success means you have the security that comes from diversification. So try something new - branch out - use new techniques.

And I'm not alone. I have friends that do similar things and several of them sell a lot more than I do. I have one friend that sells over 100 satellite tv systems per day - in that market, I gotta tell you, he's totally killing it. My other buddy sells a few truck loads of shoes every day.

When I started doing ppc, I bid $0.10 a click and limited my budget to $1.00 a day. If you lack experience, cautious patience is the right approach.

Curious. Do you pick programs based upon what you think you can sell or because you are passionate about them or both?

[loxly]

If you are passionate about something you are likely to be better at selling it by any method you choose because you either know more than the competition about it or are willing to learn more than your competition about it....

[karomesis]

Your database efforts are way over the top - it's performance data that matters most, not the predictive type. Predicting is for soothsayers. Performance is for achievers. Stop collecting predictive data - it's almost useless.

thanks for your reply Donuts. I have a habit of studying myself to death and learning so much so fast that I have information overload and get confused as to where to start.

Do you think collecting data sets on performance/niche ect, and compiling a database has merit? i.e. is the predictive data somewhat useful IF it's based on your own perrformance instead of industry averages ect?

[Geno Prussakov]

Thanks for the good thread, Rick!

G.

[John Powell]

I think this free report is better than any ppc book I've read - but I tend to recognize concentratred knowledge as being better bang for the buck (I mean time here, not dollars):
http://www.marketingexperiments.com...opy-tested.html

I look forward to discussing specific ppc topics with you and others here.

That Marketing Experiments report was really a nice listen. I had heard one from them a while back on landing pages.

I would like to read anything on pre-selling. Where the data is available I see that I have a long way to go on my conversions after clicking through to the merchant.

Donuts should make one

I second that motion, but I think he has a life and enjoys his free time. I'm just guessing.

[Donuts]

Originally Posted by johnnyWebAffiliate

Curious. Do you pick programs based upon what you think you can sell or because you are passionate about them or both?

There's no single litmus test. Things that interest me (passion) get an up arrow. Things that I think will work, get one. Good Affiliate Manager where others things have worked for me, gets three (this is a mental tally, not a literal one). When I trip across a niche where the ppc landscape has obvious lack of pro players, up arrow. If it's something niche, up arrow. If it's a "need" product, up arrow. If the specific market / prouct / service has high volume, up arrow. And so on.

I do advocate passion for newbies, you'll know more about the subject and likely searches coming in and you'll be more likely to stick with it.

Above, where I said "need", think of the difference between someone shopping for a replacement hubcap versus someone looking for a carribbean cruise... they "need" a new hubcap now and their car looks like trash until they order it. Same thing with consumable items. Same thing with laptop battery. They "need" to buy the item. These items will have much higher conversion rates (and shorter "days to close" average) than "want" items like a cruise.

[Donuts]

Originally Posted by karomesis

thanks for your reply Donuts. I have a habit of studying myself to death and learning so much so fast that I have information overload and get confused as to where to start.

Do you think collecting data sets on performance/niche ect, and compiling a database has merit? i.e. is the predictive data somewhat useful IF it's based on your own perrformance instead of industry averages ect?

Nope, my own experiences have taught me that predictive analysis is almost a complete waste of time. Your inclination to collect data beforehand will hurt you. Try things and see how they go. If you develop rules, be slow to do so. I feel like I have 20 rules or so and that any one or two or three of them failing won't stop me from trying something new.

I preach specificity and relevance in advertising - that is easiest achieved with unique niches. I see niches all day long in this industry. A day or two ago, I saw Deb Loxly program called Jillery.com (ShareASale). The store has a line of muzuzahs (Jewish religious door ornaments). Many Jews put a mezuzah on every door in their house. Most non-Jews have never heard of this item. Check the ppc and there's ~3 companies that sell them. Jillery's are very, very attractive and reasonably priced. A Jewish person searching for them likely feels they "need" to buy them, for religious reasons, for their house. Jillery has specifc landing pages and the search terms one might use would be equally specific. I hope those interested here take a look at the angles involved here and see why I feel these items would make excellent targets to try. If you're Jewish, I'd bet that you have a very healthy "know how" head start over others - heck, I can't even spell the word mezuzot correctly! (I'm not Jewish) If you know why people buy these items and other "insider" info, you're much more likely to succeed in this niche. For me, items like this expand my mind - I'll research these types of items and get inside a buyer's head. I'd compile a keyword list, a negative keyword list and write a dozen ads for it and go. I'd collect daily stats on it and see if my bids make sense and work on my ads and keywords towards improving my CTR. I give it several hundred clicks, preferably 500 or so, and then I regroup and assess whether to do more, do less, shut it down or whatever. If it works well, I'd look for other items this merchant carries that are niche and get them pumping too.

[loxly]

(Makes more notes...)

[Mike O]

Originally Posted by loxly

(Makes more notes...)

Me too -- this is great stuff!

Thanks to everybody, especially Donuts, for the useful info and links.

The marketingexperiments site was especially timely. I was just then creating some new ads and their info confirmed I was doing things approximately right and gave me some new factors to think about.

Very much appreciated!