[Paul Schroader]

Not even if the hoops 2 inches off the ground, huge and there's a bunch of money on the other side, Connie?

Dyson's are pretty cool. Which brand is better is purely subjective.

[flamingoworld]

If anything, merchants jump through hoops for me.

[Paul Schroader]

It's good to be you! :-)

[Ryan_McCoy]

**Ducking for cover already**. Just signed up and I know that I'll get flamed right from the get go. This is an interesting discussion and will be more and more relevant as this industry matures. This really is a double edged sword. Do you approve affiliates even despite not having current (or verified) contact information? (I know that some of us have it listed on the websites in our profiles, but there are many that don't update that contact info or don't have contact info listed at all). If you don't approve these affiliates, how many super afilliates will you miss out on?

When I got into the business six years ago, I took the approach to stay anonymous. No contact info on my websites, register for all forums under a nickname rather than my own name etc., I found myself making a decent full-time living doing a cross between affiliate marketing and search marketing (both SEO/SEM). The turning point for me personally was reaching out to programs and affiliate managers to understand their program, their goals and putting my name out there.

So what you didn't get approved. I'm a 5 bar-earner in CJ a CJ Performer etc, etc, and I get rejected on programs all the time or have applications stuck in pending status. Be proactive, e-mail the program. If there is no contact info listed for them in CJ send them an e-mail through the CJ interface. Find out why you haven't been approved. Offer to call them to find out more about their program. Although counter intuitive to some, there are affiliate managers who are weeding out affiliates by seeing who will put forth the extra effort.

There really is a paradigm shift toward less affiliates and higher performers--especially for major brands. I know that almost all of you can come up with a couple (several) examples where that isn't the case, but as you rub shoulders with affiliate managers at Affiliate Summit, CJU, etc you'll find many are starting to take this approach. So for those of you who are content to make affiliate managers "jump through hoops" for you, beware, your days of dominance may be numbered.

As the industry matures we will see more and more requirements from programs so that this will be seen as a more legitimate business. I have one program in my portfolio that I would never have landed if I wasn't willing to jump a flight and meet the affiliate manager in person. Now this program is one of my top 3 programs that I promote. Now I realize that is a rare case in extra effort, but come on folks put look at this from more than one angle.

Now...let the flaming begin.

[flamingoworld]

There have been programs that I have begged and had to work hard to get into.
They were namebrand stores my visitors wanted.

Oreck is not a premium merchant to me.

[Ryan_McCoy]

Flamingo,

I can appreciate that. Just saying for the sake of discussion a lot of points raised in this thread are fairly weak. Let's say it isn't Oreck how would people feel? Would they have been more proactive in seeking approval? Oreck may not be premium to a lot of people, but I know that there are several people that make decent (not major, but still worthwhile) money promoting it. Just saying I've found diamonds in the rough as I'm sure you have. Is it possible Oreck could be one for some?

[Chuck Hamrick]

Paul, as an AM who has a program in CJ I understand how you have to protect brand. The interface does not lend itself to creating relationships so we find the necessity of creating an additional system like a contact manager for that. When I was looking for a solution for a very picky "branded" program I chose to run it in-house, privately and hand picked affiliates to invited in.

It is apparent to me that you launched Oreck in CJ many years ago and the brand protection issue has developed more recently? I just reviewed my "thank you for joining" email template in CJ and see that my contact info was not there. (it is now) I have gone to great lengths to insure that anyone applying or getting rejected has a means to contact me. Those that get rejected who reach out are given top consideration and up to this date have all been welcomed into the program.

As for getting affiliates to contact you as a requirement for joining the program, add it to your "Message displayed when publisher submits application " email template. There is no way I see that you can mass contact pending applications and I understand why you would want to delete and start over. That would be offensive to affiliates so there must be a better work around.

[Chuck Hamrick]

The fact that you got Connie and Scott to post on this thread speaks volumes. There are at least a thousand affiliates behind each. Figure out how to make your sign-up process work for them and you will have an affiliate centric program. That's my goal for 2007!

[sdalley32]

I've been an affiliate with oreck for about a year now. When I applied, I recieved an email back that asked me for some contact information. I then emailed the info that was requested - it took me about 30 seconds. I never felt like I was jumping through a hoop.

As to the relationship, I'm not sure what people are afraid of. All this has really meant is that he knows that he can get a hold of me and I know that I can get a hold of him.
When I've had a question he has been quick to respond and I've had no problems getting in touch with him.

I really don't know why I am posting this here its not like I want any of you to start promoting Oreck.

Steve

[Anne]

Originally Posted by sdalley32

I really don't know why I am posting this here...

Steve

Maybe you were just really anxious to make your first post, Steve.

[Heidi]

I won't jump thru hoops for any merchant. If I want to promote Oreck, I will just do so thru the other companies that sell them such as Amazon.

[sdalley32]

Hi Hedi or anyone else,

Im just curious why you consider this to be a whoop to jump through? Is it because no one else requires you to? Or is it because you don't want Oreck to have your contact info?

I've read the thread and I haven't heard any good arguments (in my opinion) for not doing it other than the dreaded hoop.

Respectfully,

Steve

[popdawg]

Originally Posted by Anne

Maybe you were just really anxious to make your first post, Steve.

and 2nd

[Mack]

Amazing thing the Internet is.

Anyone else notice that the only people supporting Oreck have less than 3 posts on ABW? Must be hard having to create accounts to support yourself.

Maybe the fact that you're all alone in your debate should tell you something.

[Heidi]

Originally Posted by sdalley32

Hi Hedi or anyone else,

Im just curious why you consider this to be a whoop to jump through? Is it because no one else requires you to? Or is it because you don't want Oreck to have your contact info?

Oreck could get my contact info thru many different channels - via my whois info on my domain, they could ask cj to get approval to pass it on - Home Depot did this and I received a phone call asking if it was ok to share my details with them.

I have thousands of merchants who I can affiliate with that I don't need to jump thru hoops with, I'm in business for myself because I don't want to deal with people.

Oreck's policy is more about treating the affiliates like employees from what I've seen and read, and I want no part of that.

[Paul Schroader]

Ryan – Thanks for the points you bring up. I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of success when reaching out to programs and managers, as you suggest.

I guess it goes to the theory of the long tail. There is value in the tail to any program, but the real money for both sides is being where the graph spikes. Some affiliates may be content to anonymously remain part of that tail. When I promote a program, the first thing I ask myself is, “How can I get on the radar of this program’s manager so we can work on becoming one of their performers?” I understand and respect that this philosophy is not shared by everyone. As an affiliate, that’s to my advantage. As a program manager, it’s quite baffling.

Connie – I understand that Oreck is not one of your premium prospects, now. If you see it as a good prospect in the future, please let me know.

Chuck – Thanks for your input. I know we’re on the same page when it comes to running affiliate-centric programs. It’s too bad that this process of trying to establish a connection with our affiliates has been misconstrued. If our intentions were bad, I simply could never post on this type of forum and do what the client wants without ever making efforts to communicate with affiliates. I guess misinterpretation of intentions just comes with the territory.

Steve – I was kind of surprised to see you post, as I know you’re making good money with the program. It is appreciated, though. Some people may welcome you to the forum and others may not. It’s just part of life for this type of medium. Just a hunch, but I think Anne will be one of the more welcoming members.

Heidi – Feel free to contact me if you’d like to make higher margins than Amazon can give. I understand that a lot of the attraction to being an affiliate is being independent. I promise not to treat you like an employee.

Mack – The Internet does rock, indeed. If I were looking to make this into a popularity contest, I’m sure I could pull a lot of people into the conversation. The fact is, I was simply trying to communicate something I thought was important for affiliates to know.

[Ryan_McCoy]

Originally Posted by Mack

...
Anyone else notice that the only people supporting Oreck have less than 3 posts on ABW? Must be hard having to create accounts to support yourself...

Mack,

Gotta start somewhere right? Does being a new member mean that my opinions aren't valid? Correct me if I'm wrong...and 41 posts doesn't exactly make a veteran in any forum last time I checked.

I'm not affiliated with Oreck other than I am a part of the program. I met Paul originally as an affiliate of the Oreck program. I've enjoyed working with him over the last couple of years and now we are friends and meet up at all the industry events and have gone on to do some other projects together. I have a great deal of respect for Paul and his abilities to manage a program.

[cjshu]

I was doing pretty well with oreck last summer then sales died - not clicks just sales. Also Google no longer allows you to use the oreck trademark name in adwords so I have pretty much given up on them as an affiliate.

CJ

[Herb Ô¿Ô¬]

I rarely watch TV but the few new Oreck ads I've seen tend to stick in my mind for a while. That helps a little with the visitors to our sites.

[Paul Schroader]

Clarence,

I'm working with Oreck's SEM firm for a trademark exception. If you're interested in me pushing for an exeception on your promotions, just let me know and I'll see what I can do.

[DoradoVista]

Originally Posted by oreckman

Clarence,

I'm working with Oreck's SEM firm for a trademark exception. If you're interested in me pushing for an exeception on your promotions, just let me know and I'll see what I can do.

How will the trademark exception be implemented?

AJ