117 New Posts Today

[Andy Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by infospongellc

I don't pay much attention to return days. If I didn't get 'em to buy on the first try, or they don't come back to my site to find the item the next time around, then I didn't do my job, IMHO.

- Tim

Tim,

Thats usually the best policy and in reality, how most affiliates need to think. It's a dog eat dog out there, and everyone, including the merchants are taking a whack at those visitors at any opportunity they get.

At Szul, we just decided to tilt the scale more in the affiliates direction because we want to build long term relationships. We know there are jewelry merchant choices out there and at the end of the day, cash is king. If you can consistently earn more promoting szul because of our cookie policy, you may scoop up sales that didn't buy in the first go around.

For the record, we will be posting and announcing these sales as they happen...many affiliates will be surprised and happy to have earned the $$$ after they sent the inital click.

[Andy Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by jc101

Did you know most Adware and spyware removers wipe out your affiliate cookies when there consumers/customers scan there computers?

Andy this wasn't meant to infringe or disagree with your post. it's just that alot of people don't understand how this is hurting us. With Adaware (from lavasoft) selling there software in North America. This could kill alot of affiliate businesses ( especially those who live in North America. What are your thoughts on this? and do you think they will come up with a better technology for the affiliate industry?.

J, this is a known issue that does affect affiliates more than they realize. I "can't" do a thing about software intalled by users, i can advise my clients and have done so. Szul is the first to implement, ReStockIt has agreed not to overwrite with their marketing efforts and we are working on the others...

One step at time, we will make the ARC merchant programs the best in the industry...

[ecomcity]

The issue of purposely setting & overwriting affiliate referral cookies with house account cookies via mass e-mail campaigns is called "cookie washing". Andy is willing to put forth his programs position on this as being bad for long term relationships for legit value-add affiliates. He wants to reward those who make up thousands of Skul and Restockit showcase product pages all unique within the SERPs adding that content to the merchant's arsenal. He can't expect that type value-add effort when a few mass mailings wipe out return days if the merchnat/AM tags e-mail links with overwrite cookies.

It would be like turning over the merchant's e-mail list to a daughter in law, who is an affiliate, and letting her reap the rewards of other affiliates traffic getting on that e-mail list. Andy posed the challenge to other AM's hoping they'd have a similar policy in place to restrict house account "cookie washing" to gain favored status with ABWers. Just one has come forth. Imagine merchants like Dell -Overstock -ComputerGeeks who e-mail product special links (potentially overwriting affiliate cookies) to a billion shoppers every month. All affiliate return day cookies are negated by this practice as even the smallest merchant's mass e-mail clicks outnumber direct clicks from the affiliates showcase pages.

PS... couponers need no freaking return day cookies ...nor do BHO's ...nor do mass e-mailing affiliates. One of the TOS terms in the Safe Haven Network model prohibits merchants from using a house account cookied link in any external email promotions. If they desire this practice they can't wash cookies via their existing networks programs.

[shawn_naturehills]

Everyone,

We do NOT overwrite an affiliate cookie when we send an email newsletter to our list, or when we run any other advertising campaign. The affiliate tracking cookie is not affected, so, if set, the aff gets the credit on the sale, even if that visitor came back to us from another advertising campaign.

Just so everyone knows there are other reputable programs/AMs out there

[Andy Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by naturehills

Everyone,

We do NOT overwrite an affiliate cookie when we send an email newsletter to our list, or when we run any other advertising campaign. The affiliate tracking cookie is not affected, so, if set, the aff gets the credit on the sale, even if that visitor came back to us from another advertising campaign.

Just so everyone knows there are other reputable programs/AMs out there

Shawn

Thank you for your post and your posittion...

[Thomas A. Rice]

Since Andy keeps inviting AMs to post-

My program at tarice.com is just a small one, but cookies are set to never expire, multiple sales per customer are allowed, once a customer is 'yours' he is 'yours' until he sets a new cookie, I do my best to track phone and email inquiries to their source, and affiliates are allowed to buy through their own links.

I commend you on speaking up, and having such a terrific policy for Szul. As someone who plays both sides of the Affiliate Marketing fence, I need to get a little more active with Szul - along with a few other programs you support.

Oh, and, in regards to newsletters and such, of course, the affiliate's cookie will be respected. No interference at all from my side.

-Tom

[Andy Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by elbowcreek

I commend you on speaking up, and having such a terrific policy for Szul. As someone who plays both sides of the Affiliate Marketing fence, I need to get a little more active with Szul - along with a few other programs you support.

Oh, and, in regards to newsletters and such, of course, the affiliate's cookie will be respected. No interference at all from my side.

-Tom

Tom,

I've known you for a long, long time since my TD days...I know you are not into game playing or BS - you Sir can be trusted.

Thanks for your post, your stance and future support of my programs.

[Andy Rodriguez]

UPDATE:

Mike from EasyClickTravel has just confirmed and told me that EasyClickTravel currently does not overwrite, will not overwrite, delete or interfere with ECT's email marketing newsletters.

Here is another merchant in a vertical that is saturated with parasites. Now one merchant has come forth and stated in a public forum their cookie/email newsletter policy.

There are many of you reading this now that are associated with other travel sites... send them an email asking them about this issue. Ask them specifically - does your email marketing newsletter kill the affiliate cookie when clicked on?

Once you get the reply, if it's not what you want to hear - ask yourself why are you wasting your clicks and your time on merchants that don't consider you a true partner.

If you want to experience a true travel affiliate partnership, click here.

[mikezzounds]

Hi All,
Better late than never, but I'd like to chime in on behalf of my merchant,
zZounds.com. I've been pretty fortunate as AM for this merchant, as their
philosophies toward best practices with customers are extended to business
partners, especially affiliates.

Its pretty simple-- be honest, be communicative, be flexible, be ethical.
I subscribe to that, and so does my merchant. If you work for something
as a partner, zZounds is going to reward you for that.

With that said, I'm glad to report the following zZounds practices:
- zZounds uses an entirely separate, parallel tracking system for its
email newsletter - so your affiliate sales are boosted not washed out by
any newsletter subscriptions and subsequent sales
- zZounds uses a patent-pending method of tracking phone sales that
results in significant additional affiliate payments on phone sales.
Affiliates deserved to get paid whether the order is placed by phone or on
the website.
- zZounds uses an entirely separate, parallel tracking system for internal
site promotions, such as for giveaways and newsletters - so affiliate
sales are boosted and not washed out by any additional sales that result
from these promotions (See thread over on search engine watch http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/...ead.php?t=6247)

Affiliates should pressure merchants to minimize any form of "cookie
washing" that tend to put affiliates and the company in competition rather
than cooperation. Of course, thats easy for me to say-- I got lucky, my
merchant already rocks

Andy, thanks for bringing this up. I think this is something that
merchants should face for the improvement of our industry. Kudos, A-Rod!!

-Mike Payne-
zZounds.com Affiliate Manager

[Andy Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by mikezzounds

Andy, thanks for bringing this up. I think this is something that
merchants should face for the improvement of our industry. Kudos, A-Rod!!

-Mike Payne-
zZounds.com Affiliate Manager

Mike, welcome and thank you for running your program the right way. One by one, we will shape the industry and make it right and fair for everyone involved.

Thanks again,

[nish]

Originally Posted by Szul.com

The system works in a way, where if the order is linked to an affiliate upon purchase, the email address is not queried against our database log of "affiliate registered emails." If the order comes in with either no referrer or it comes in under a marketing email which we send, then we will query the email address and give the affiliate who "owns the customer/email" the appropriate commission.

Hi Andy,

Sorry to dig up this old thread. I sincerely admire what you are doing to help the affiliates. It would be great if you could help me understand how you track the newsletters.

When a visitor (coming from an affiliate's site) registers his email address to receive Szul's newsletters, I imagine that Szul would store the email address and the affiliate-id in the database. Now when the visitor places an order, he has to give an email address. Now is the tracking done by comparing this email address against the stored email address in the database? Or do you do things differently? For example, when you send out marketing newsletters, do you pre-code the affiliate-id in the links within the newsletter (if the recipient email addr is associated with an affiliate-id)? Or is the case that when the visitor initially registered his email address, a 365 day cookie was set with the email-addr & affiliate-id and then when the order is placed (sometime in future), this cookie is used for tracking?

Disclaimer: I'm a merchant who is developing an independent affiliate program. So if the above information is a trade secret or proprietary to Szul, please feel free to ignore/delete this post.

cheers!
-nishith

[PaulS]

I've only been lurking on this topic for about 15 minutes (somehow missed it before). It's an older topic, but I figured I'd post anyway.

1. I think this post should be recreated in the general area, as members (like me) might not see it or realize the importance of the discussion. Also, there is a minor concern that we don't want to mess up Andy's core message with a heated discussion on the topic.

2. I have to complete agree with something Matt said earlier in the thread...

"If sales aren't attributed to my affiliate mktg program (that should be), I don't get a wink and a slap on the back from our management team. And, quite frankly, if my mgmt team had that expectation of me, they'd have to find a new AM."

To me, this kind of action would be allowing a merchant to become a parasite, so I can only hope that most anti-parasite merchants (such as Wonderfulbuys.com and Brushstrokes Fine Art) would also ensure that a merchant's cookies stay intact when e-mails are distributed and pop-ups are used.

3. Like with the parasites, I think it is important for people to know who is engaging in this activiy and who isn't. E-mails (and some pop-ups) can be helpful to convert browsers to buyers, but it's important for an affiliate not to suddenly shy away from a merchant because they use these tactics, based on a fear that they might be taking away their hard-earned commission.

My only question is... can this be done in error (or without realizing the consequences), and is it something that merchants should be "educated" about, similar to the amazing work that ABW members have done educating merchants about parasites? Or could only do this with specific and malicious intent?

Paul

[lookingfortips]

Originally Posted by MichaelColey

I haven't done an extensive study, but from my experience, somewhere around half of affiliate programs do overwrite affiliate cookies when visitors return through newsletter links. It's a fairly common practice in the industry. It's refreshing to see affiliate managers who are willing to make sure it doesn't happen in their program.

Is this something that is purposely done or something that just happens by default? If I send out my regular newsletter to customers who have signed up, will this automatically clear affiliate cookies or is there some devious little script a merchant has to use? If it is the case where it happens by default, I will just kill my whole mailing list program and take the feature off my site today. Please let me know.

I remember reading something about this before on ABW and I think they have to purposely do it but I'm not sure. If I send out my newsletter as always with something along the lines of "click here to shop now," is that enough to wipe cookies?

[MichaelColey]

No, it's something that you have to intentionally do.

Many merchants track the source of the last click (affiliates, PPC, newsletter links, etc.) and only track it as an affiliate sale if an affiliate was the last click. This pretty much ruins the concept of "return days".

It's far less common on networks like SAS and with CJ merchants who use cookie/pixel sale tracking rather than batch sales reporting. It's much more common on LinkShare, CJ batch reporting merchants, and merchants who are on multiple networks.

[lookingfortips]

Ok, great. Thanks for the quick reply. All the underhanded methods merchants use to circumvent paying affiliate commissions still blows my mind.

[Eathan]

Hi all,

I know it's an older thread, but AM and merchant comments were invited, so here goes...

I found the thread via a search because I was actually thinking of posting something about how newsletters don't have to equate to leaks, and can actually boost affiliate sales.

Our newsletter at BlackCatMining.com goes out with in-house tracking variables that tell us which link within the body of the email generated the click and sale, but the variables don't affect affiliate cookies and commissions track without issue. My interest in the subject lately has been sparked by two good examples of affiliate sales that were generated because of our last newsletter.

The first came in with a campaign ID from one of the links in the newsletter, but was also credited to an affiliate. We're a small program and I'm a hands-on owner and AM, so I always look into this sort of thing to see how and where it happened. In this case, the affiliate had referred an incomplete order 40 days prior that had joined our mailing list. The newsletter finally tipped the scales and urged the customer to buy. The affiliate received full commissions.

In my mind that's sweet cooperation!

The second was confusing as it was a returning customer that was NOT originally referred by an affiliate, yet the return days exactly matched their original purchase date. Did tracking fail, or did the customer continue surfing after they bought, and then return to the site via an affiliate link?

For this I had to look through the logs, and sure enough, 16 minutes after the customer completed their original order with us, they returned to the site through an affiliate link. Later, when the newsletter went out, they ordered again and the affiliate received full commissions.

You could argue that we generated the second order as they were our returning customer, but the affiliate's link, even after the purchase, reinforced our brand. It's a team effort.

It's the same thing with phone orders, or recovering incompletes. If a customer calls in, or I call someone who had a credit card error, or chose not to complete an order for whatever reason, I happily credit the affiliate who referred the customer.

Amazon and eBay sell some of the same things we do, but neither make near the effort. They can bank on brand, while I'm banking on the extra effort making our program an easy choice for affiliates marketing the product categories we sell.

Cheers!

[Decorative Ceiling Tiles]

Hi,

As I am trying to learn best merchant practices, I would like to ask you how do I know that cookies are being overwritten?