[SSanf]

Count me in on that one. I sure want for us to have our own lawyer look at it, too.

[Ron Bechdolt]

I'm in!

Unlike the networks that have full time legal adivice, we usually don't. It would certainly not hurt to have someone look at this document from our perspective. There may well be some legal ramifications that none of us even realized.

This is not just about CJ either, I think this is a good idea as it would be great if we could create a fund where we retain a law firm to look at other networks when they do similiar things (like LS last year).

[Andy]

we should all put 5 to 10 dollars into a pot and get a trial lawyer to read the PSA and give us his/her opinion on weather it hold up in any court.

Save your money, I've already given this to my attorney to look at, and he is going to give me his written opinion on it. I'll forward it to Haiko when I get it.

I've already posted some of the things he's pointed out to me verbally in this thread and others.

Andy

[Ron Bechdolt]

Okay, I'm feeling ornery this morning (hey, it's before 7:00 am and I have not had my first cup of coffee). For our required CJ privacy pages, everyone should put links at top of those pages to join other networks.

Okay, that was a low blow (sorry, Todd), but I'm still a bit put off that I have to go and create over 100 privacy pages and put one on each of my 100+ sites by a short deadline. I'm in the middle of two big projects, having nothing to do with affiliate marketing, and I just don't have the time so excuse me if I get a little bit huffy about this issue.

[ecomcity]

Where the Hell in the new PSA is there a revenue recovery clause when a merchant like The Computer Geeks constantly brings down my sites ability to display pages. I see again this morning www.geeks.com is completely down and the low conversion merchant is too cheap to have CJ host their banners and images. CJ has no simple program in place to even tell if any of their merchants are offline and pull the plug on their creatives till they come back online. With The Geeks this happens all the time depriving me of displaying any other merchants on a page until their "image loads time out.

Therefore the PSA should have a clause allowing the merchant, and their trusted network, to reimburse affiliates for lost revenue, lost PPCSE clicks, and customer bad will incurred when this happens. ROLMAO as today's batches of millions of Computer Geeks cookie washing e-mail promos and their network run SEM campaign takes it in the shorts too. The brilliance of Befree/CJ/ValueClick to not have an auto kill switch for merchants who's IT department have no backup servers and refused the extra expense of hosting their 3 domains on a redundant dedicated servers. Our Geek's loaded pages will come back online when the California liberals finally climb out of bed and kick the closeout priced server for the umteenth time this year.

[Sapphire]

Originally Posted by Andy

Save your money, I've already given this to my attorney to look at, and he is going to give me his written opinion on it. I'll forward it to Haiko when I get it.

I've already posted some of the things he's pointed out to me verbally in this thread and others.

Andy

Andy, I'm not allowed to use PM's yet (too few posts), or I'd just send this to you in one. I would very much like to hear what your attorney says, whether through Haiko or via email or whatever. I've read your points in here, but I doubt I'm following every thread you're posting in.

[HardwareGeek]

Originally Posted by Andy

Save your money, I've already given this to my attorney to look at, and he is going to give me his written opinion on it. I'll forward it to Haiko when I get it.

I've already posted some of the things he's pointed out to me verbally in this thread and others.

Andy

You Rock

[ToddCrawford]

Please read this - http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread...961#post491961

[Rhea]

Ten bucks? Sign me up. In fact I'd be happy to pay more in order to have that lawyer compare the previously existing PSA with the new PSA and comment on the changes.

[HardwareGeek]

I know leader said he was having his read the psa,
But maybe we can also get a lawyer on retainer, if CJ/linkshare/sas/performics have problems with reporting or what not we can consult the lawyer

[Leader]

I know leader said he was having his read the psa,

??
I don't remember saying that~! Andy's the one who's sent the PSA on to his lawyer...

I'll be interested in what Andy's atty (or any other atty's that are retained) have to say, though!

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Point of information:
===============

http://www.cj.com/psa.jsp

9. Miscellaneous.
(d) Choice of Law/Attorneys' Fees. This Agreement is governed by the laws of the State of California (USA), except for its conflict of law provisions. The exclusive forum for any actions related to this Agreement shall be in the state courts, and, to the extent that federal courts have exclusive jurisdiction, in Los Angeles, California. The parties consent to such venue and jurisdiction and waive any right to a trial by jury. The application of the United Nations Convention on the International Sale of Goods is expressly excluded. A party that primarily prevails in an action brought under this Agreement is entitled to recover from the other party its reasonable attorneys fees and costs. CJ controls and operates its Web site from its offices in the USA and access or use where illegal is prohibited.

(RED added by me)


Stop people ... Think. - Do you Live in California?

CJ had a week to act - DR. Cholawsky ... but did ZERO.

Todd is now "back" and answers "some questions" - read his post ... and your going to take "legal advice" from the company who wrote the damn POS PSA? OK.

[HardwareGeek]

Originally Posted by Leader

??
I don't remember saying that~! Andy's the one who's sent the PSA on to his lawyer...

I'll be interested in what Andy's atty (or any other atty's that are retained) have to say, though!

Opps sorry confused you leader with Andy

The CJ agreemnt has the only sue us in Cali clause. A lot of companies have that clause paypal comes to mind. It's easy to get around that clause though. Get a lawyer that can point out how the agreement is partially illegal and have the lawyer remind CJ of the Paypal case.

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

HG, the clause is called Venue, and laws and interpretations of them and precendents in them outweigh other venues ... it's not just I don't want to go to NY type thing.

[Mr. Sal]

If you're still bewildered and confused Click Here to decipher this entire thread.

You will feel better and more relaxed by tomorrow, or get double your money back.

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

http://forum.abestweb.com/showpost.p...&postcount=287 says that the PSA claims CA as the venue for legal interpretation and enforcement.

WTF IS about that?

Are you in CA? ... No!

Does it still affect you? (outside of CA) ...Yes!

Does it affect you differently since your outside of CA? Yeah maybe

What laws do you need to know when you click I agree?

Your state or CA law / or interpretation there of?

Is that so ???


Look, I don't give a damn what people you do, it's your business, but at least read http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=64699 and treat your business ... like a business.

[Mr. Sal]

WTF IS about that?

Haiko,

That is just a hypnodisk.gif, I didn't mean anything with that smilie, I don't know why are you so mad at me because of that smilie, I just used that hypnodisk.gif smilie, as a joke because it's a hypnodisk.

What laws do you need to know when you click I agree?

I have not clicked on no agree yet, I am still waiting until after the 21 to see what is going to happen.

Last Friday I droped about 40 merchants on CJ, and I have not put any CJ link in a while, and I could care less if I have to drop the rest.

Look, I don't give a damn what people you do, it's your business, but at least read http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=64699 and treat your business ... like a business.

I don't really understand what do you mean by: "what people you do"
So I can't answer that question without giving you a wrong answer.

I read almost every post on ABW, so I don't know why are you hitting me so hard with that post, I thought that you knew me by now.

I wish I had a reason to apologise, but this time I don't see what I have done that need an apology.

Again, I made that post just because I saw that a few people were talking about a decipher, so I did it just for the fun of it, it's too bad that I wasted my time with a stupid smilie worthless post.

But don't worry, that was my last stupid smilie post that I made. I will delete all the smilies from my folder so I don't F-up again.


Sal.

I think it would be better if you delete those hypnodisk.gif smilies, they are even getting to me now.

[blac_angel]

Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.

Point of information:
===============

http://www.cj.com/psa.jsp

9. Miscellaneous.
(d) Choice of Law/Attorneys' Fees. This Agreement is governed by the laws of the State of California (USA), except for its conflict of law provisions. The exclusive forum for any actions related to this Agreement shall be in the state courts, and, to the extent that federal courts have exclusive jurisdiction, in Los Angeles, California. The parties consent to such venue and jurisdiction and waive any right to a trial by jury. The application of the United Nations Convention on the International Sale of Goods is expressly excluded. A party that primarily prevails in an action brought under this Agreement is entitled to recover from the other party its reasonable attorneys fees and costs. CJ controls and operates its Web site from its offices in the USA and access or use where illegal is prohibited.

(RED added by me)


Stop people ... Think. - Do you Live in California?

CJ had a week to act - DR. Cholawsky ... but did ZERO.

Todd is now "back" and answers "some questions" - read his post ... and your going to take "legal advice" from the company who wrote the damn POS PSA? OK.

i was reading that part a couple of days ago, im from P.I. (philippines)..

[Mr. Sal]

Haiko,

After I have sit here for almost one hour analyzing WTF it was, that it's that bad about that post with the hypnodisk.gif smilie, I think that I finally have come to the conclusion of why you got so mad at me because of that post.

Correct me if I am wrong on what I am thinking, but this is what I believe is what get you mad at me:

Since I couldn't find anything really wrong with the text on the post, I decided to analyze the smilies and while it took me a while to figured out, this is what I think get you mad:

By looking at the hypnodisk.gif smilie for awhile, all I can come up was that it was spinning, so I put the word spinning on my "WordWeb English dictionary, thesaurus and word finder" and I got this:

Noun: spin = 5. A distinctive interpretation (especially as used by politicians to sway public opinion)

Verb: spin = 7. Twist and turn so as to give an intended interpretation.

So if you even thought for a minute that I was trying to use that word on my post, because I put the hypnodisk.gif smilies there, You're very wrong my friend, I would never do that shit to you.

My conscience is clean, so now I can go to sleep and later today I will read what you reply to this post.

Sal.

[chetf]

Haiko, it needs to be governed by some state law correct? Yes.
So it is the one they are incorporated in, pretty simple. They know one part of the equation for sure, that one part of the two people entering this agreement are in cali, so there you go, that is the venue. It makes sense. This is bizarre that you are making such a big deal of it.

As HG pointed out, it is pretty easy to show that it would be an undue burden to move the venue to cali if you file locally, or is this all just some more secret code? I cannot remember the last contract I entered that was not held to one or the other signers venue.

And damn do I wish we could ban or at least mute smilies... because if there are more than 3 smilies in a post, i have no idea what the post is about.

Chet

[Rexanne]

Originally Posted by Jack123

I Don't Know that How to Search this Bulletin Board with similar words instead of exact words.
I searched for similar words in google and
boardexplorer and I found this Bulletin Board.
However inside the site I could not find any smart search. you have to know exact words to find similar topics
any Idea?

There's a lot in here Jack. What are you looking for? Someone will be able to guide you to the right place.

So welcome!

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Jack123,

Go to http://forum.abestweb.com/search.php enter a term (or terms) and then specify the forum or category if you want to. Post with Q's.