[IanBookMan]

I just took over our CJ affiliate program (3 days ago) and noticed eBates is one of our top 3 affiliates.and has been for awhile.

I came to this forum and checked them out and now I am concerned.
I noticed most of the posts were older, so I thought I would bring this up again.

1. Are they still a problem?
And if so, how? (I'm not famillier with their tactics)

2. If yes, should I get rid of them as I have seen others do?
They are a big chunk of our revenue, and I was hoping to grow revenue, not decrease it.

3. If yes again, any chance they have changed?

Please note, although my priority (like many of us) is increasing revenue, no one at my company (including me) would be upset if revenue got cut due to something unethical.
But I want to also be fair.

Edit: They have been an affiliate of ours since 2000

Best

IJ

[Zeus]

First, check on their site if your company is listed as "coupon only" or not. Are they using Moe Money Maker, MMM or not? If they are using their software, a big chunk of the commissions you're paying to them are sales STOLEN from your own site and more from affiliates.

[IanBookMan]

thanks for the quick reply Zeus.

All I can find for us is we're listed under our category, middle of the list with a 6% cashback.
Don't see us anywhere else.

[Zeus]

eBates offers cashback for most merchants.
Check your site on this URL:
ebates.com/all_stores.go
You have cashback, name of Merchant then at the right More Info, if on the line for your company you have SEE COUPONS, it means they don't use their software for your company.

[IanBookMan]

it does not say "SEE COUPONS" next to our name.

... this means?

[Zeus]

No wonder why they are in your "top 3" It's your own sales they're stealing.

[IanBookMan]

thats amazing to say the least.
i appreciate everything you've posted here for me (and hopefully to help others) but if I get rid of them, will we still have those sales coming in?
And if so, from where?

And they have a lot of other compaines listed with no coupons as well, are they all having sales "stolen"

[Rhea]

What now?!?

Now you kick them to the curb.

[ProWebAddict]

Originally Posted by IanBookMan

thats amazing to say the least.
i appreciate everything you've posted here for me (and hopefully to help others) but if I get rid of them, will we still have those sales coming in?
And if so, from where?

People come to your website directly. These people have the ebates software on your computer. You end up paying ebates a commission even though they came to your site directly. The same thing goes for any PPC ads you have. So you end up paying for the PPC and paying ebates a commission.

People go to affiliate x's website. They click on affiliate x's link. If these people have that ebates installed then affiliate x doesn't get the commission- ebates does.

Only you can decide if it's worth it, but it surely isn't ethical.

Hopefully your company has a solid marketing plan and you aren't relying on eBates.

[IanBookMan]

I could and probably will... but my issue is I don't fully understand why I would be kicking them out becasue i don't know how are they are stealing sales?

I'm a big believer in ethics especially if this might be affecting any of our other affiliates.
But I can't pass judgement until i know more - however my trigger finger is on the "expire" button.

[IanBookMan]

thanks PWA

I just posted my reply b4 i saw yors

[Zeus]

Some of the companies listed don't even know what's going on. Some have a greedy affiliate manager making money off these stolen sales. Some are so big, their top management don't know about it. A few don't care.

You can download their application on a test computer and see first hand how they do it. (Just be careful) You can read more how it works on ABW, Affiliate Fair Play, Ben Edelman

[Kristin Kinsey]

You will still see the sales coming it, although they may not all be coming through the affiliate program (the sales they stole from you, which will lower your cost of aquisition for those sales), and you will see more sales coming from other affiliates (sales they stole from other deserving affiliates).

Your program will grow stronger without them then with them, and that is a definate.

[Kristin Kinsey]

Sorry was a little slow to type, ProWebAddict beat me to it

[IanBookMan]

wow, this has been an eye opener to me.
and I've been around in the industry for awhile too, but i guess you never stop learning.

and this is important to me because some ABW's are our affiliates.
and if ebates has taken sales from them, then i take this very personal.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by IanBookMan

wow, this has been an eye opener to me.
and I've been around in the industry for awhile too, but i guess you never stop learning.

and this is important to me because some ABW's are our affiliates.
and if ebates has taken sales from them, then i take this very personal.

Read this thread by Donuts, for some additional background info. This applies to eBates as well as the "Zango" example...

How Adware Hurts Everyone

[IanBookMan]

thanks for the link Beachy - and thanks Kristen and of course thank you zeus, rhea and proweb.
I just sent them a CJ internal message asking them straight up what they are doing- i did phrase it gently.
Although the evidence presented here (and the link) are overwhelming, I still felt it was my duty to confront them and maybe hear their side of the story.
But I am also expiring them - that's business we can do without.

[loxly]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Some of the companies listed don't even know what's going on. Some have a greedy affiliate manager making money off these stolen sales. Some are so big, their top management don't know about it. A few don't care.

And many are on "set it and forget it" and allow the networks to do their "recruiting". It isn't always greedy affiliate managers because many of them don't have true affiliate managers, just an internet marketing guy that does what the networks suggest.

[ProWebAddict]

Originally Posted by IanBookMan

I just sent them a CJ internal message asking them straight up what they are doing- i did phrase it gently.

They don't care! Cash is king. Add in a little "positive" spin and things are gravy.

I applaud you for taking the ethical route because all business isn't good business.

[IanBookMan]

...... mypoints.... tell me it ain't so as well?
I looked them up here and i'm getting that queasy feeling again.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by IanBookMan

...... mypoints.... tell me it ain't so as well?
I looked them up here and I'm getting that queasy feeling again.

Unfortunately...Yup. And, since it looks like you are working your way down the list alphabetically, you'll soon run in to my "personal" favorite...UPromise. (I get worked up over UPromise because I had a 22 year career in the world of education before going full time in Aff Mktg.)

[IanBookMan]

thanks for the tip, but actually i couldn't find them - unless they use an alias....
i'm a little offended too, what we're not good enough for uPromise?

But I did find:
CouponMountain - thanks to an older post from Flamingo and Chuck

I'm checking around as much as i can to find a recent list of all companies that are like this - so if anyone knows where one is that would be great.

[msladybug]

Good for you IanBookMan, looks like you're doing a lot of Spring Cleaning today.

Many affiliates will not even think of joining your program if your name appears on the eBates list that Zeus made reference too. You may actually see an increase in affiliates joining your program, once your name is off that list.

[IanBookMan]

thanks msladybug,

it feels good to do it as well.
and when i just showed the owner of my company this post and what i'm starting to do they were glad - even if it did cost sales - which it doesn't seem like it will.

[Kevin]

i'm a little offended too, what we're not good enough for uPromise?

I've made that joke a few times. Although we're not at CJ or LS (and others), so I'm shielded from them.