[Geno Prussakov]

Just got an e-mail from a good friend who is a missionary/church worker. The e-mail was of raising-support-for-the-ministry matter. It listed various ways of supporting him, and among them was this one:

==========================================
Online purchases through iGive

My own travel and other costs as I volunteer with PEER Servants come
out of our personal budget, which has greatly limited the help I am
able to provide. If you want to directly support my work in
micro-enterprise development, and if you shop online, shopping through
iGive.com can result in a percentage of each purchase you make
(generally 1.5% to 6.0%, but possibly more!) help with my expenses.

You can shop at Barnes & Noble, Staples, Best Buy, Circuit City, Sears,
and hundreds more through iGive. There are two steps. First, click on
the link below

http://www.iGive.com/html/refer.cfm?memberid=******&causeid=******

By clicking on this link, PEER Servants will be filled in as the
"cause" supported. (Once you have opened your account via this link,
you do not need to go through this link every time -- you can go
directly to iGive.com.)

Second, send me an email and tell me that you've signed up with iGive.
I'm not interested in having you make more purchases than you already
do! This is just a way to take the purchases you already are making and
leverage them for the Lord's glory as I seek to serve Him in
strengthening the global church through economic development.

Remember, none of these options cost you anything! ....
==========================================

Anyone knows if iGive is still parasite-ridden? I see the last post in this iGive sub-section of ABW dated September 6th, 2005. If they still are screwed up, please give evidence. I will make sure they are exposed in the circles through which they are trying to promote (cf: above example).

Many thanks in advance for your feedback.

Geno

[Zeus]

Geno - Anyone knows if iGive is still parasite-ridden?

As long as they have a reminder (using TopMoxie), they ARE a parasite.
Read the letter and you'll have your answer.
Who deserve the commission, iGive, the missionary/church worker or the affiliate?
iGive and the missionary/church worker bind together to screw the affiliate. Is it normal?
Who spent time and money to promote the merchant, iGive and the missionary/church worker or the affiliate? Why is the visitor going to purchase from the merchant? The real question is here. IMHO, the two marketing channels, Charity, Loyalty Programs (or whatever you call it) and Affiliate marketing are not compatible. iGive like others should not be an affiliate.

If iGive and the missionary/church worker did something for the merchant, let the merchant pay for this service but not by stealing the money out of the affiliate pocket.

"please give evidence"
You can read what Ben did during MAY 2006 and use his presentation to learn more and educate your merchants. He talk about iGive and others using TopMoxie or other applications.
It's a 43 pages presentation on "Understanding Spyware and its effect on your Brand and your Marketing Pound"
http://www.benedelman.org/presentations/perfiliate-2006.pdf

[Geno Prussakov]

Thank you very much for your input, Zeus.

Originally Posted by Zeus

IMHO, the two marketing channels, Charity, Loyalty Programs (or whatever you call it) and Affiliate marketing are not compatible. iGive like others should not be an affiliate.

Excellent point.

Originally Posted by Zeus

You can read what Ben did during MAY 2006 and use his presentation to learn more and educate your merchants. He talk about iGive and others using TopMoxie or other applications.
It's a 43 pages presentation on "Understanding Spyware and its effect on your Brand and your Marketing Pound"

Looks like a great read. Thank you for it, Zeus! Printed out and will be read shortly...

Geno

[Zeus]

Unfortunately, you don't have Ben comments on the slides but they are easy to follow for a merchant not working everyday with spyware and loyalty programs. If you have a specific case you can talk to him directly.

[Rhea]

I don't think most of these non-profits realize that in order for them to benefit from iGive someone else is being cheated. Whether or not they would care is another matter.

Regardless of whether the shopper prefers or intends to donate money to a charitable organization, iGive, supposedly on behalf of the shopper, interferes with the affiliate's ability to do business and, mind you I'm not a lawyer, the contractual agreement between merchant and affiliate.

Stealing is stealing is stealing is stealing...a higher "purpose" doesn't change that.

[Geno Prussakov]

Originally Posted by Rhea

Stealing is stealing is stealing is stealing...a higher "purpose" doesn't change that.

By no means!! In fact, I have made it my goal to expose this to the whole organization (and, believe me, it is not small) that they have cheated into this... Looking forward to more comments from affiliates and affiliate managers in this thread. It is our industry. Give me more feedback on how you feel about this, and then my task of illustrating the facts will be easier, and the argument - more solid.

Thanks in advance,

Geno

[ecomcity]

The feelgood marketers, posing as Charity Saint Teressa, fail to mention the majority of all monies pilfered via the BHO applications force cookie set ...goes into their own pockets.

[Zeus]

Geno, one more link.
I don't know what it's worth as I don't listen anymore to webmasterradio. (Last time CJ was promoting eBates). First show after Haiko quit.
"Bahareh Sahebi of iGive.com talks with Debbie Bookstabber about giving to charity and what that has to do with Affiliate Marketing, during Affiliate Summit in Orlando, Florida."
You have to know their arguments to fight them.
http://media.webmasterradio.fm/episo...S-BaharehD.mp3

Even if iGive or uPromise don't have spyware bundled downloads or installs thru security holes, they still have predatory practices and it's not fair. A visitor with a computer infested by a download can still cost you your organic traffic and a fortune in PPC.

Also, I'm sure Kellie talked about them during the Affiliate Manager Certification Seminar in Miami. I don't know what she's up to. Try to contact her.

[Rhea]

Fascinating interview. Pity the interviewee didn't know how much money iGive has disbursed to charities. (She sure can giggle though, huh?) That kind of information should be a part of the public record, just so everyone knows that iGive is on the up-and-up.

[Drewbert]

>Is iGive Still Parasite-Ridden?

Does the Pope shit in the woods?

[Rexanne]

Originally Posted by Drewbert

Does the Pope shit in the woods?

God I hope not.

[Patrick - AMWSO]

I'd rather not take any chances.... IGive applied to Forzieri.com again last week, and I have rejected them again.


Cheers,
Patrick Goodfellow
Forzieri Partner Manager

[purplebear]

Patrick
Just went and checked. I've been spending time since the beginning of this year trying to learn more about parasites, adware and the rest of the bad guys. I'm not gonna mention names or places cos I'm not sure if I'm supposed to but I'll say I participated in a discussion with a person who is considered by everybody to know all about this topic and this person still included them as a bad guy as of January this year. Hope that makes ya feel better.

[Chris - AMWSO]

OOPS Sorry I was getting IGive and Care2 mixed up. Sorry for the mix up, I have Care2 video not iGive right now ....

[Rhea]

Thanks for the update, Chris. I attended the first ecomEXPO, being rather naive about parasiteware at the time, but have not attended it since. Live and learn and realize that not everything is what it appears to be on the surface.

[Chuck Hamrick]

I just noticed an iGive email in my in-house program that goes to alumnidirector.com. Removed them!

[IanBookMan]

I' m reviving this post as I'm doing some serious spring cleaning of my affiliate program through CJ and inhouse.
I've already bounced two out of my program that can be found within in this forum, and now I'm looking at a 3rd - iGive.
Is iGive one to get rid of as well or has anything changed?
I've read a lot on them, and actually they had a few defenders here so I'm teetering back and forth on hitting the expire button.
Any wise words for a merchant trying to clean up and get rid of parasites?

Ian

[Bill]

Originally Posted by IanBookMan

I' m reviving this post as I'm doing some serious spring cleaning of my affiliate program through CJ and inhouse.
I've already bounced two out of my program that can be found within in this forum, and now I'm looking at a 3rd - iGive.
Is iGive one to get rid of as well or has anything changed?
I've read a lot on them, and actually they had a few defenders here so I'm teetering back and forth on hitting the expire button.
Any wise words for a merchant trying to clean up and get rid of parasites?

Ian

Re-read Rhea's Post (#5) above - pretty much sums up the ultimate result (even without BHOs).

[IanBookMan]

thanks Beachy,
You have been a great help through this cleaning that im doing.

i did read that quote and quite a few others, but the thing that concerns me is the posts are a few years old.
if theoritically in 2006 they were up to no good but have since changed their ways, i would want to know and I may reconsider getting rid of them - I know that's what I would want someone to do for me if i was in that situation.
So that's kind of why im curious now and looking for some more recent comments.

[ReallyBigGuy]

They are still bad, i see no changes from them. Every merchants next question is, "If i get rid of them will my sales go down?"
Well I haven't heard of any merchant come back to their thread and say that their sales went down after dropping a parasite, so I think it's probably safe to assume that sales will be fine.

[IanBookMan]

thanks RBG,

So far 3 of my top 10 are getting expired and counting. If there is ever a list to reference, that would be great.
And thanks for the answer to the question, that's what I'm hearing from others as well.

So hopefully other merchants will read this and get onboard as well.

Ian
Looking to be parasite free in 08!

[Bill]

Originally Posted by IanBookMan

......i did read that quote and quite a few others, but the thing that concerns me is the posts are a few years old.......

True, the post I referenced was a year and a half old, however...

Originally Posted by Rhea

I don't think most of these non-profits realize that in order for them to benefit from iGive someone else is being cheated. Whether or not they would care is another matter.

That sentiment has not changed - nor will it.

The "loyalty" sites actively work at disrupting the "normal" flow of affiliate marketing/shopping. Here's a hypothetical: Suppose I have a site about different types and uses of a variety of "dried pasta." A potential shopper finds my site because of searching for something specific about pasta and they see a new pasta machine (or something similar) they like. They may even click a link from that cooker to a merchant we promote. OR, they may remember the iGive (or eBates or UPromise) manta about "shopping through them for whatever reason." The customer figures that Cooking-dot-com may/should have a similar pasta machine - and they go on over to iGive and click on their Cooking-dot-com link. My site has provided the "added value" to this shopper's experience - but iGive gets the commission.

But it goes even deeper than that. The customer, in this case, remembered the name of Cooking-dot-com. But instead of going directly to the merchant site - they go through the "loyalty/charity/whatever" site who takes a commission that Cooking-dot-com should not have had to pay. And, we all know that when the overall cost of doning business goes up for a merchant, then the end result is that prices must rise a bit for everyone.

So, in my hypothetical, the example is win-win for iGive, but lose-lose for the affiliate/merchant.

Hmmmm...maybe that example is the reason I refuse to promote Cooking-dot-com -- or any merchant I find listed in any of the loyalty/rebate sites.

[Kim Salvino]

Ian,

Please give some serious thought to Affiliatefairplay.com's Subscription Testing Service. At the very least, read the blog.

Congrats on starting the clean up process. Kelly is wonderful and I consider her an authority on the subject, so give serious thought to partnering with her for cleaning and maintaining your anti-parasite program.

Best of luck to you!

[Donuts]

Originally Posted by IanBookMan

Any wise words for a merchant trying to clean up and get rid of parasites?

Ditto what Kim/4checks said above, sign up for AFP's service.

[Donuts]

And learn how your producers are making sales, it's your job to reach that understanding.

Too many rely on reports as the end all. Your reading here is teaching you to take a different, more critical look already... stay on that trail.

Network with your peers, they know a lot but can't always be public about the details.

And always remember that there are many people who will tell you bold faced lies that benefit their pocketbook and their allies, they are relying on you to be either ignorant, lazy, uninformed and sometimes complicit (if you're bonused on revenue, etc). It's widespread, but manageable.