96 New Posts Today

[sfcom]

If the networks refuse to control this type of behavior, then maybe it is time for a change. If we can't get a fair deal with these other networks then we need to help shift the merchants to a place where we are sure of the quality control. My own focus with the historically ethical networks will increase after the holidays. (Please don't misunderstand me here - I'm busy like everyone else and also am wondering if it is right to yank the rug from under a merchant during Q4 - most of this is not their fault.)

I hope many other affiliates will also consider making the change. It's a version of going on strike until fair practices are established. And with almost ZERO oversight for the networks currently in place, it could possibly be a while. The thing is there is PLENTY of money to still be made with the ethical networks. You would not be "going on strike" without income. Merchants will get word and then possibly make the change too. It will take some sacrifice, but it is very much worth it in my opinion. Let's do our best to grow SaS, Avantlink, or Buy.at - not one of the networks who doesn't respect what we do as affiliates and has one set of rules for us and another for themselves.

I know for sure that some of the larger affiliates might see this as an impossible step. But, I think of it this way - when SaS turns away shady merchants or (some) "super" affilates who don't want to have boundries then they also turn away some money. Long term respect and trust will build more value then short term cash. Build the network that you desire to be in. The best way to do that is increase your % of sales driven to the ethical networks. Big name merchants will soon follow. After all, who wants to be associated with a network that steals from its own? Merchants look for good PR, not bad.

We have good people here at ABW. Good people who have been screwed by the same places that issue their affiliate paychecks. I feel that it might be time to take our value-added skillsets elsewhere. Someplace that won't screw us would be an excellent choice.

-sfcom

[rematt]

With the number of years that I've been in the business world in general I find it almost humorous that I naively bought in to the concept of a "trusted third party". However, I don't feel that I am naive in expecting some level of honesty from those that we call our business "partners".

It's no surprise that Linkshare works with parasites. On the contrary, we've all known that they welcome them and cherish them as valued partners. But to be as closely associated to a parasite as Linkshare is with Onecause is unconscionable and is as clear a conflict of interest and violation of trust as we're likely to see in this industry.

I'm sure that Linkshare will reply that they are two distinct organizations, but it's difficult to see them as separate organizations when their profits eventually land in the same bucket. If in fact they are two distinctly separate organizations, then Onecause's entry in to so many different merchant programs while clearly being in violation of Linkshare's TOS has got to be one of the worlds biggest coincidences. If that is in fact the case then it would appear that their network "quality" is a joke and that they have been selling their customers a bill of goods.

There really is no way that Linkshare can emerge from this looking good. They either cheated affiliates and merchants or their program management is totally incompetent. I'm sure we'll get some totally unbelievable spin from them to justify this, and since they've had a few days to contrive it, It should be good.

Regardless of the response that Linkshare gives, there is no disputing what we can all see with our own eyes. We need to make sure that as many merchants as possible see this also. To that end I will be be contacting all of the merchants that I work with in the Linkshare network to make sure that they understand not only what is going on and how it affects affiliates, but also how it impacts their bottom line as well as the trust of their affiliates. I will urge them to remove Onecause as an affiliate and to put whatever pressure they can on Linkshare to totally eliminate this abomination. I would strongly urge all of you to do the same. It's time that merchants understood the true cost of doing business with parasites and took an active stand. If they didn't understand the effect on their programs before, Haiko's videos certainly remove all doubt.

It's been said over and over again that this industry needs to be cleaned up. Here's a great place to start. It's time to take out the trash!

-rematt

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Plow and Hearth -> http://www.abestweb.com/cam/plow17/plow17.html

This is all happening six years and 10 days after the Linkshare sponsored Code of Conduct meeting in NY -- this isn't an accident this is intentional and you are ALL being screwed, merchant, affiliate and other network ... affiliate managers who don't act are either clueless (as how this affects their or an affiliate's business) or part of the game. Networks Like CJ, GAN and PJN must clearly remove onecause as they are violating their T&C's ... either way I highly suggest they ALL take action and fast because this will not go away and it's only going to get uglier !!!!

[Snowman]

rematt and others, don't limit your notifications to Linkshare merchants. This impacts all merchants in all networks that OneCause is affiliated with. The only thing that is unique about Linkshare is that they are double dipping with a sister company rather than just an ordinary affiliate.

[rematt]

Originally Posted by Snowman

rematt and others, don't limit your notifications to Linkshare merchants. This impacts all merchants in all networks that OneCause is affiliated with. The only thing that is unique about Linkshare is that they are double dipping with a sister company rather than just an ordinary affiliate.

Good point. I'll contact all of my merchants that are on Onecause's list as well as the networks. I'm sure CJ would find it ironic that they are contributing to Linkshare's bottom line via a parasite.

-rematt

[BlueTent]

Last I checked it is Monday, any word from Linkshare Haiko?

JP Werlin

[Julian]

Originally Posted by BlueTent

Last I checked it is Monday, any word from Linkshare Haiko?

JP Werlin

Look at the names up above, the Linkshare Moderator is there

[Snowman]

Everyone needs to be patient. I'm sure there is stuff going on behind the scene but you can't expect them to take action immediately when there are so many related parties. This decision will likely come directly from Rakuten in Japan.

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Hey JP,

Glad to see you participating, I appreciate it!

No word at all form Linkshare, the mod has been in the thread today since 9AM.

I'm making many more vids, takes time to make and ecode into Flash so I can't spit them out as fast as I'd like but let me tell you all, this isn't stopping ... it's getting worse. It's every merchant on that list. Cookie durations are out the window, affiliate links get overwritten either immediately, or after a return to the site even within the cookie duration - all without ANY click at all!!!! The merchants pay for their PPC campaigns and only to drive FREE commissions to onecause!!!

[sam_park]

Hello Everybody and the LinkShare Moderator,

Its Monday.

I hope to see some active participation today in this thread and may be some reply from LinkShare. A canned reply will be better that no-reply. A honest reply will make our day.

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Yes Snowman, but ... first thing is first Linkshare Network Quality / Compliance needs to address the multiple violations in this thread, then Rakuten can dress all the rest.

Network compliance of the affilaite is first and foremost, that's linkshare's job no matter who the affilaite is, they have a fiduciary responsibility to both the merchants and affiliates to do that. So while corporate goes spinning, the complaince and legal team need to stop the illegal commission theft hemmoraging that they have CLEARLY allowed for some time now. $211 Million WTF????

It ends NOW!!! Understand?

[sam_park]

Haiko,

Not sure if this is the right thing to ask. Has there been any effort/pressure from the powers that be to discontinue this thread.

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Originally Posted by sam_park

Not sure if this is the right thing to ask. Has there been any effort/pressure from the powers that be to discontinue this thread.

None, but, it wouldn't matter anyway - I don't rubber stamp.

As I said I'm on a mission. These methods have been used for quite some time now and they are clearly in violation of the T&C of any network, COC or not, not to mention ethics additionally all these actions meet the definition of commission theft -either from the merchant, affiliate or even the network (if the program is run on multiple networks).

---------
BTW, I wonder what happened to the slashdot piece? HMMM

[BlueTent]

Haiko -

Issues like this impact us all. I have many friends in the industry, both Affiliates and Merchants, and each of them rely on their websites for their livelihood. I remember the New York Meeting 6+ years ago where one of the outcomes was the afrsc=1 name/value pair as part of the Code of Conduct. To see that bit of progress thrown out the window this blatantly is disturbing.

Linkshare is under new leadership - leadership many of us don't have the same relationship we were able to rely on under the old regime(s). I agree that Linkshare needs to deal with this issue on behalf of all its Affiliates and Merchants carefully, however, there is currently a large volume of increasingly dear retail dollars at stake. Patience is important, however the fuse is much shorter on November 17 than it might be on July 17.

Rest assured, that this issue is not going unnoticed - especially by anyone I work/speak with about Online Marketing - in particular Affiliate Marketing. This industry hinges on three parties - the Affiliate, the Merchant, the Network - with a fair dose needed of checks and balances. The trend of one party playing 2 of the 3 roles is not a good one, even if those roles are in buried within subsidiaries of a larger corporation. The conflicts of interest and allure of more money is too great.

I am not totally familiar with Rakuten's organization structure, however I am aware that their presence in the US is via Rakuten USA. My assumption is that both Linkshare and OneCause roll up under Rakuten USA. The good news is that this issue rests squarely at the foot of Rakuten USA and there is one person in charge there. I trust he will make the right decision.

The downside is that Rakuten is a very big company in Japan and, to a lesser extent, here in the US. Very big companies have much larger issues to deal with than this one right now even though it is very big to us. The burden lies on this group to make it a larger issue such that is generates the necessary and proper attention from Rakuten USA.

JP Werlin

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Originally Posted by BlueTent

I agree that Linkshare needs to deal with this issue on behalf of all its Affiliates and Merchants carefully, however, there is currently a large volume of increasingly dear retail dollars at stake. Patience is important, however the fuse is much shorter on November 17 than it might be on July 17.

Easy answer, turn the toolbar overwriting off immediately!!! Then the fuse gets a little longer, if not, well hey ...Sorry, I will not nor can not allow affiliates and merchants to continue to get stolen from by some opportunistic non compliant toolbar.

Originally Posted by BlueTent

This industry hinges on three parties - the Affiliate, the Merchant, the Network - with a fair dose needed of checks and balances.

Actually, Four --- Affiliate, Merchant, Network and ABW - obviously the existing check and balances haven't done anything to preclude nor illustrate nor much less tried to rectify what onecause has and is doing - if they did, we wouldn't be here.

Edited to add: I'm not trying to toot ABW's Horn, but realistically ... look at this ... $211 million given away, double that earned ... come on this is insane!!!

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Here ya go ... here's the damn cherry on top ...

http://www.linkshare.com/about/aboutonecause/

http://www.abestweb.com/oconls.png (screenshot incase it gets pulled)

[Boom or Bust]

Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.

BTW, I wonder what happened to the slashdot piece? HMMM

Still there; http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=1735771#. Just hasn't gotten much traction. If people would add their comments it might...

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.

http://www.abestweb.com/oconls.png (screenshot incase it gets pulled)

What is this supposed to be?

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Snowman,

That was a screenie of the onecause about us page on the linkshare site (in case they remove it).

------------

Plow and Hearth -> http://www.abestweb.com/cam/plow17/plow17.html

[CathyM]

There is another page as well,

http://www.linkshare.com/about/rakuten/

[sfcom]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct_(affiliate_marketing)

Not sure exactly what existed in reference #5 before, but it leads to a dead page now.

-sfcom

[edited to add the link at wikipedia: http://www.linkshare.com/press/addendum.html ]

[Kevin]

From the Linkshare page:

Nonprofits work with OneCause to earn cash-back contributions when their Supporters make everyday purchases at hundreds of name-brand merchants online, through stores and catalogs, or by using their OneCause Platinum Visa® credit cards.

While it in NO WAY diminishes the import of this issue, it should be noted that there are multiple channels, and it's likely that a percentage of that $211 million is from credit card transactions, etc.

That said, this BHO/Toolbar, just like a vast majority of others, is bad for the merchant, the affiliates, AND the consumers at the end of the day.

Normally, it's really bad for the network, too, but that's obviously not true in this case.

[Zeus]

LinkShare is recruiting "a Non Profit Organization Development Associate" for CauseLoyalty "This position is crucial to the overall success of our current and future marketing initiatives. "
http://www.linkshare.com/about/rakuten/rakuten_careers/

DIRECTLY FROM their web site. Don't tell us they are not involved with CauseLoyalty.
Same company.

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Wynn -> http://www.abestweb.com/cam/wynn/wynn.html

[Rhea]

That link didn't work for me, Zeus. I found this though:

(Notice the misspelling of "associate.")

http://tbe.taleo.net/NA11/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=LINKSHARE&cws=3&rid=53