[Zeus]

Good catch. I still see them with a 4% cashback.
It takes time to remove all references to a merchant.
http:// shop.upromise.com/merchantinfo.php?olmid=BYCSTM001 (remove the space after http://)
Check the link to buycostumes, I like it when thieves add &afsrc=1 to protect themselves from other thieves.

[Snowman]

Could you post a link to the page where you see that link so that Kristen can have it removed?

When I access that link, I get:

BuyCostumes.com is not available for shopping at the moment.
They may be temporarily unavailable, or may not be participating in the Upromise program.
Please click here here to see a list of all participating merchants.

[Donuts]

some other links for you to "fix":

http://ww (space) w.schoolpop.com/info/81170/2379/storedetail

http://ww (space) w.igive.com/html/body_merchantlisttour.cfm

http://ww (space) w.ebates.com/Buy_Costumes_4166-xfas?navigation_id=15231

[Kellie aka Ms. B]

Per CJ's policy, the publisher has 7 days after notification of the termination to take the links down. I don't think it's been the 7 days yet. I don't think the advertiser has any control over that, as I've had Merchant's complain to me about having to wait.

[Snowman]

But I thought the 7 day rule didn't apply when the affiliate was clearly violating the rules.

[Kellie aka Ms. B]

Snowman, from what I've seen it still applies. I'm not 100% certain if the waiting period applies if CJ terminates on the Network level (although I think it does), but it applies regardless on the merchant level. It's in the PSA. I've listened to more than one merchant groan about it.

But what rules were being broken? None of the people listed in this thread by others are violating CJ's rules according to CJ. Check the new and improved COC (cough)...it's allowed and "compliant." The old COC allowed it for that matter, but the new one is more clear that it's allowed. Todd Crawford posted in 2005 that it is allowed by CJ in a UPromise thread.

It's up the merchants to step forward and say they won't allow it in their individual programs.

[Snowman]

Kellie, I just read the relevant part of your comments at http://affiliatefairplay.com/newsblo...de-of-conduct/ so I see that these rebate sites that work based on a download that can overwrite affiliate links and causes a non-affiliate generated sale to be registered as an affiliate related sale is just fine with CJ. I just can't imagine that this is acceptable by any affiliate manager unless the affiliate manager's income level is connected to the sales attributed to the affiliate program.

It may have been several years ago, but I could have sworn that terminations resulting from rule violations could take effect immediately.

As I've said in the past, until this industry has some oversight, we will continue to see unethical behavior by certain parties at all levels...the networks, advertisers and publishers, but IMO, the networks bear the greatest responsibility since they are the enablers and regardless of whether the unethical behavior impacts the advertiser or the publisher, the network always comes out ahead financially.

[UncleScooter]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I just can't imagine that this is acceptable by any affiliate manager unless the affiliate manager's income level is connected to the sales attributed to the affiliate program.

bold added by me.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!
You hit the nail on the head Snowman.

Most AM/OPM compensation is indeed at least partially on a performance basis, hence the "blind hog at the trough" mindset regarding doing anything possible to tie as many sales as possible to the affiliate channel. Until merchants understand this, it will continue.

[Donuts]

Originally Posted by Kellie aka Ms. B

It's up the merchants to step forward and say they won't allow it in their individual programs.

True. I'd add that it's also very telling, from a trust perspective, that you have to let CJ know not to snark your other channel's traffic. Merchants work so very hard to get that traffic and CJ feels they're entitled to a cut of it, unless told otherwise. Those ethics make no sense to me at all. Long term, they're a bad business plan as well.

[Snowman]

BuyCostumes has now been removed from Ebates. It appears that Schoolpop and IGive are still active.

[Billy Kay]

In the 10+ years I've been in this business, I've received my share of emails from Networks, Affiliate Managers, Merchants and customers that have made me cringe...

...including the one we all received from BuyCostomes on 7/30 saying a coupon will expire tomorrow, to check our emails soon for a replacement, and they've hired CommissionJunction Quality Assurance to make sure everyone is coupon compliant.

That email falls into the "What Gall" category - let's have all our partners stop what they're doing because we can't give enough notice, and our program should take precedence over any other plans affiliates may have.

As I've already posted, I built an entire site for Kristen a year or 2 ago - and I have their links on just about all my sites.

So I dutifully spent an hour searching and replacing the coupon code the following day, and uploaded all the changes on all the sites.

But... turns out there was one page on all my sites where the coupon code wasn't in the html, it was called up by a javascript. I vaguely remember I was trying to simplify updating coupons, and must have forgot about it.

Guess who found it??? My buddies at CJ Quality Assurance.

Since they've already threatened me if I ever post even a single word from any correspondence they send, I can't post it.

But it was MEAN. It was NASTY. It was SADISTIC. It was like they wake up in the morning trying to cause pain. And relishing it!

Forget being unprofessional, or not a way to treat a partner... it is not even a way to treat a human! There is nothing in my 50-year life experiences to compare it to!

Whoever wrote the email, didn't sign it. I wouldn't put my name to something like that either!

And like a torturer who wants to get in one more needless whip lash, for no other reason then he can, it's the only email I've ever received in the CJ mail interface WITHOUT a reply button. There were only some archaic instructions about opening an AAQ request, copying headers, all within 48 hours or being dropped and forfieting 100% of my commissions.

Jalem and Kristen should be ashamed and embarressed to have their company associated with the email I received. You should request copies so you know what your partners get.

Or... if you KNEW what affiliates were getting and approved it, then that speaks VOLUMES of how you think your partners should be treated. And if it's OK to treat your business partners that way... I wonder how they treat their customers? It's a small web... and bad news travels fast.

[Zeus]

Sorry to hear that.
Do you think Paul Nichol got the same email?
Treat these clowns the same way they are treating you. They don't deserve any respect.
and remember, one day, some of them will end up in jail.

[Kellie aka Ms. B]

This is so wrong on so many different levels.

First of all, I've known Billy for years now. Yes, he's a friend but I'd slap him back into tomorrow if he ever strayed into questionable marketing of his merchants. But he doesn't run his business that way. He works hard for his merchants actually promoting them. One of the reasons we are friends. You may have lost an affiliate who actually strives to bring you customers. And that's probably rightfully so.

Billy doesn't have to post the actual email he got from CJ NQ (what an oxymoron that name is!). Others have posted elsewhere very similiar experiences. And no they aren't very nice. Maybe appropriate for someone that has ignored other attempts to resolve a problem. But no way is the wording justified for someone who has never been any violation of policy and certainly not over ONE wayward link.

The fact that a total lack of consistency and reaction not in proportion to an issue comes from CJ NQ is not surprising to me whatsoever. But I find several other things mind boggling.

First off has got to be BuyCostumes has HIRED CJ NQ to monitor this for them?????? I mean really! So now CJ is CHARGING their merchant's to monitor compliance????? What a lovely racket if you can get it I suppose. So let's see how that plays out against a reality check. CJ has 2 lawsuits against them at the moment centered around the types of affiliates they allow in their Network. Their whole defense thus far seems to be....it's not OUR responsibility, it's the ADVERTISER'S responsibilty. And if you read between the lines of their response to the affiliate's lawsuit, the implications are if anyone should be sued it's the Advertiser not us because it's the Advertiser's responsibilty. Then they turn around and charge the Advertiser for monitoring? Talk about gullible. But I guess if CJ can get the gig......

And here you've just set new policy against certain affiliates operating in your program that CJ has put out there for years as new good partners. They still have case studies up on the CJ site about at least one. And regardless of how "helpful" CJ may have been with the terminations (hmmm...wonder if that helpfulness had anything to do with the ongoing lawsuits), did that give you some pause when thinking about hiring CJ to monitor this for you???

So now you've probably lost a good affiliate over one stinking link. Let me ask you this though. Has CJ NQ let you know that this affiliate is in your program? Because they are. I've got video of them redirecting on a direct type-in to buycostume.com on 7/25. It seems like the exact type of affiliate you are leading the industry in not having in your program. So what...CJ NQ can find one js link on one of Billy's sites and not be aware of what Axill is up to? Did they mention Axill to you when they were being so helpful in cleaning up the BuyCostumes program? Or maybe it's just that you aren't paying CJ NQ to monitor for that kind behavior?

The kind of email Billy got is probably more warranted for the type of behavior Axill is engaging in. But hey..it's your program and you set the tone and management of your program. You want to lose affiliates over one coupon link and keep affiliates who are automatically redirecting your direct type-in traffic as an affiliate through software the end user did not consent to installing nor even knew was being installed, that's certainly your choice. I think it's absolutely stupid, but it's your choice.

[Billy Kay]

LOL Kel - Do I need to PayPal you 5 bucks or something? (Thanks)

Soon as I'm done swapping all the Links to HalloweenMart, I'll respond to to CJ with "The offending coupon has been removed - as well as the offending merchant".

Pretty sure Loxly will never threaten me... affiliate-wise speaking

As an affiliate, that's all I can do: vent and swap.

But besides the obvious, my costume site, they're everywhere. PersonalCreations had 9 Pirates of the Carribean personalized products, so I made a Pirates page on my personalized gift site. My pages require 15 products, so I added BuyCostume's Pirates of the Carbbean party supplies, like paper cups, napkins etc as filler). And that's just one example.

Oh well. Live and learn

[Kellie aka Ms. B]

LOL Kel - Do I need to PayPal you 5 bucks or something? (Thanks)

Naw...I don't do PayPerPost.