[Paul Schroader]

After the very successful launch of our affiliate program and more than 6 months of communications and information gathering, we've decided to give our program a fresh start.

What this means is that we plan to really emphasize strong two-way communication with our affiliates. We're going to ask affiliates to provide us with a means of communication that isn't dependent on any third party. We feel this will help us become better acquainted with our affiliates and learn more about what we can do to improve the program.

We hope to be able to provide custom solutions for those who need them and give our affiliates the love and attention they deserve. Things tend to get diluted when sending messages to thousands of affiliates knowing that only a relatively small percentage will ever see them.

We're going to expire inactive (zero sales) relationships with the expectation that serious affiliates will reapply. New applicants are going to be screened a bit more closely so as to avoid some of the negatives that can come from some affiliates not being professional (i.e. spamming, misleading search marketing. offering cash discounts, parasites). They will also be asked to supply direct contact information for maximum communication efficiency. Affiliates who’ve made sales for us in the past will not be expired, but they will be screened similarly to those reapplying and asked to supply direct contact information, as well.

In return, we will continue to work toward building a very efficient and profitable program for our affiliates, we will protect our core affiliate base by not allowing parasites to promote Oreck.com and we will make communicating with us as easy as possible.

Again, we are very happy with how the majority of affiliates have worked with us and feel that things will only get better. The main reasons for this restructuring are simply to optimize communications and better control rogue affiliates.

Please let me know if any of this is unclear or if you want more information.

Best,

--
Paul Schroader
Affiliate Relationship Manager
Oreck.com
504-731-7252
pauls@oreck.com

[Trust]

Not a very good idea. A lot of affiliates only like to comminunicate with AMs thru email. About expiring zero sale affiliates, maybe not a good idea either because maybe some had pages to your site that Google messed up since they are/were showing an old index for last month and half(or longer) and they might get turned off by being dropped and won't bother reapplying. Staying away from parasites is a good thing, but most affiliates don't want to be micro managed on how they work or send traffic to a merchants site. I could be wrong but you might lose some good affiliates.

"Nothing focuses the mind better than the constant sight of a competitor who wants to wipe you off the map."
--Wayne Calloway

[Zeus]

Can you give us your own definition of "better control rogue affiliates"?
Are they the new affiliates or the ones with zero sale?
You can accept who you want in your program, it's your problem and I dont mind as long as they don't interfere with my own business, it's your choice and I respect it, but don't you think that dropping all your affiliates is a little bit too much.
It just means you don't care for the time your affiliates spent to promote your business (with success or not).
To better communicate with your affiliates is not to better control them. Set the rules, be sure they are respected but don't try to be my boss.
In my own opinion you went too far, sorry.

It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

[Kcedit]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zeus:
Set the rules, be sure they are respected but don't try to be my boss.
In my own opinion you went too far, sorry.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto.

On the other note, Oreck accepts loyalty sites, but not cash back sites. What difference does it make, Paul? Point and cash? All coupon and rebate sites are not parasites.

[Linda]

This makes Oreck's affiliate program a big disappointment to me. I am one of those - in the little over 6 months that I've been affiliated with you - that has sent little traffic and no sales.

As it turns out, I just finished a page 3 days ago on my site dedicated just to Oreck and was hoping that Google would pick it up this month and start generating more traffic and sales. With this turn of events I hope Google hasn't grabbed it yet and I get links removed before it's indexed.

Communication?? I don't think I have received one piece of communication from Oreck since I signed up. Your posting on ABW was the first that I knew a real person existed at Oreck.

Why do you feel the need to drop your non-productive affiliates to start a "strong two-way communication"? Did the thought ever occur to you to start the two-way communication BEFORE you deactivate them? Communicable merchants that keep me informed of sales and events on a regular basis get a lot more attention and highlighting from me than quiet ones. And it doesn't matter how it's communicated but I prefer by email or CJ's messaging or ABW - not by phone.

Reapply to Oreck's program? Don't think so. Once a merchant tosses me out, I move on to someone else and don't look back.

[Kcedit]

FYI: For those who got dropped, but already have oreck pages setup:

There are other merchants who offer the same Oreck products with 10% commission. Do your math!

BTW, I did not get dropped because I had sales. But I might be looking for other merchants myself.

[Ron Bechdolt]

I just looked at Oreck's EPC's and see they have a 7 day of $47.53 and a 3 month of $27.65.

What on earth are they so concerned about???

Sounds like a simple case of greed to me.

Don't worry about dropping me Oreck...I'll beat you to it.

Ron - 7 Days A Week Marketing
Every day is a chance to learn something new and an opportunity to teach others.

[dazz2003]

I have dropped you instead.

You should have expired (zero sales) accounts older than 1 or 2 months and at least given new affiliates time to get a creative finished, published and into Google.

Dazz

[Guffy]

8th June - Purchase domain name, accepted by Oreck - Build Site.

13th June - Site fully spidered by googlebot - Oreck tells me they will be expiring all affiliates without a sale, and I will need to re-apply.

Gee, thanks a bunch.

Mad Doctor Gfufy

[Akiva]

Paul,

Is there a minimum amount of sales?

Akiva Bergstrom
Affiliate Partner Manager
<TABLE BORDER=0 cellspacing=2 width=500><TR><TD> <FONT SIZE=1>EssentialApparel.com
CJ/6%/120 days/Datafeed/Parasite free
Email: akiva@essentialapparel.com
Phone: 973.696.6200 ext 751
> Join now! < </TD><TD><FONT SIZE=1>SportsFanfare.com
CJ/10%/120 days/Datafeed/Parasite free
Email: akiva@sportsfanfare.com
AIM: akivabergs
> Join now! < </TD></TR></TABLE>

[Ron Bechdolt]

Don't you love it when Affiliate Managers post something like this on a Friday and then leave it until Monday to respond?

Ron - 7 Days A Week Marketing

If money is your hope for independence you will never have it. The only real security that a man will have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability.
--Henry Ford

[JJJay]

I had an EPC of over $80 but I stopped sending Oreck traffic when they didn't like people bidding against them in PPC search engines. In my opinion if a merchant doesn't want affiliates bidding against them they shouldn't have an affiliate program in the first place. I add this program to the clueless affilate manager list.

[Paul Schroader]

Wow! Where to start...

It appears that our restructuring has been greatly misunderstood. It is in no way meant to "harm" our affiliates. Our affiliates have been great to work with.

The main reason these changes became necessary is because an executive at Oreck was spammed by one of our affiliates. Not knowing the details of our affiliate program, the question was immediately raised:

"What kind of damage can be done to our strong brand by affiliates?"

and,

"Is maintaining an affiliate program worth running the risk of negatively affecting the brand?"

Needless to say, with these questions being asked, the whole future of the program was in jeapordy. In order to "save" the program, some pretty drastic steps were deemed necessary.

It was decided that the best way to protect the brand was to establish solid relationships with our affiliates and have them commit to protecting the brand. The plan to give the program a fresh start was derived and questioning it is welcome, because that's part of communication. I knew the decision wouldn't be terribly popular with some, but figured that if we explained things, then it would be generally well accepted.

The first few responses to my e-mail were emotional and similar to some of the posts I'm seeing here. After the first few e-mails came through, I started seeing more understanding and cooperative messages. My message to both the emotional and cooperative affiliates has been the same.

"If you haven't made any sales but have put considerable effort into promoting Oreck.com, and feel you have a legitimate reason to remain active, then please let me know and we will not deactivate you. We're happy that you are communicating with us and look forward to a successful partnership."

I would like everyone to know that the restructuring was decided upon by a number of different entities as the best way to protect Oreck's brand name and keep the affiliate program viable.

As always, I invite phone calls, e-mails or any other means of communication. I would be happy to go into as much detail as possible.

I know what it's like to be an affiliate and have felt that with some advertisers there was no one listening to affiliates. I can assure you that I will listen and help in any way I can.

I'm sure there will be more posts and hopefully more communications by other means. I welcome these, and hope that we haven't ticked too many people off.

A lot of money can still be made with our program and I hope to continually improve the program so that affiliates can make even more.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Now, to address individual posts....

TrustNo1®

-E-mail is OK, but 3rd party e-mail is sub-par
-Expiring inactive affiliates was decided as the best way to protect the brand. Affiliates who communicate valid reasons for not being deactivated will be kept active. Others can always do a search and replace on the PID in their indexed pages.
-Micro-management is not the goal. Commitments to protect the brand and solid communication is.

Zeus

-I hope everything mentioned above gives a better definition. Again, it's all about protecting the brand and communicating.
-My not caring about affiliates time and effort is untrue. Believe me, I understand the time and effort involved. I'm not trying to be anybody's "boss". I'm just trying to keep a vibrant program alive and kicking.

KCEdit

-I've explained this to you, before. Cash back sites are a channel conflict because customers can assume the cash back offers can be applied offline as well as on. They can't.

Linda

-Just give me your PID and I'll make sure all your hard work wasn't a waste of your time.
-As for communication, I include all of my contact information in every message that goes out from Oreck's affiliate program. It was there when you signed up and in all messages sent since. Hopefully, after the restructuring, no one will doubt that there is a "real person" here.

KCEdit

Good luck with this. I know the reseller you're thinking of and you'll soon see that the math is not in the affiliates favor. Please do the math, because that's how the money is made.

7-days

-If only it was a simple case of greed. As you've seen, it's a bit more complex than that.
-I would hope that you don't drop us based on not knowing all the facts. You can bet that if it weren't a conflict of interest I'd be making a ton of money off this program. You even posted the EPCs.

Dazz

-Expiring (zero sales) accounts older than 1 or 2 months may have been a workable approach. However, the offer still stands for any affiliate who has put significant time and effort into promoting Oreck to contact me with their PID to remain active.

Guffy

-Congrats on being spidered by Google. You have a couple of options. Send your PID for exclusion from the expiring or re-apply and switch your new PID for your old one.

Akiva

-No, there is no minimum amount of sales. Any affiliate who has made a sale will be excluded from being expired.

7-days

-Posting on Friday was not done on purpose. Just happened that way.

JJJay

-Bidding against advertisers for their trademarked terms in PPC search engines is an interesting philosophical discussion to have. I'd be happy to share how much fun it was to even get buy-in on allowing affiliates to even play in this space.
-Adding this program to the clueless affilate manager list ----- Priceless

All

Hope this helps. Looking forward to keeping the dialogue going.

Best,

--
Paul Schroader
Affiliate Relationship Manager
Oreck.com
504-731-7252
pauls@oreck.com

[JJJay]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Paul Schroader - Oreck.com: Adding this program to the clueless affilate manager list ----- Priceless<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm glad you agree

[Paul Schroader]

Always gotta hold on to the sense of humor. Especially when emotions are running high.

--
Paul Schroader
Affiliate Relationship Manager
Oreck.com
504-731-7252
pauls@oreck.com

[JJJay]

Affiliate marketing is a fun game, where else can you sit at a desk, wearing only a pair of y-fronts... And still get paid

Anyway just to add a serious note, Oreck is a good performer, my epc for this year was $89.96. Sadly this program isn't for me but you guys could still make money.

[popdawg]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The main reason these changes became necessary is because an executive at Oreck was spammed by one of our affiliates. Not knowing the details of our affiliate program, the question was immediately raised:

"What kind of damage can be done to our strong brand by affiliates?"

and,

"Is maintaining an affiliate program worth running the risk of negatively affecting the brand?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Expiring inactive affiliates was decided as the best way to protect the brand. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm tired and have been having some serious glitches the last few days so I might be confused. I have a couple of questions;

How are inactive affiliates negatively affecting the brand if they are inactive?
I've been inactive with your program for a while now due to time constraints and am curious how someone like me(inactive) could be spamming executives.
Wouldn't that make them at least somewhat active?
Isn't there the likelihood that the spammer is getting at least some sales which would mean that by dropping inactive affiliates you aren't solving what was defined as the original problem? That being spamming and corruption of the brand.

Game on!!!!

[Paul Schroader]

Popdawg,

Thanks for the post. Your point is well-taken and quite logical. I never said that inactive affiliates were responsible for the spam, but since you brought it up...

One of the major spammers made a few sales and had them reversed after being booted from the program. The "From" line of the e-mail said, "This sucks". Maybe funny, but not very smart.

The other spammer didn't make any sales, so I guess he/she'd be considered "inactive".

Again, it was decided that in order to facilitate better communication and get everyone to commit to protecting the brand, serious efforts needed to be made by everyone involved.

While the steps we're taking may seem drastic, they will ensure that the program survives and serious affiliates can make money promoting quality products.

--
Paul Schroader
Affiliate Relationship Manager
Oreck.com
504-731-7252
pauls@oreck.com

[Ron Bechdolt]

Paul,

I think your approach to all this could have been much better. If you've been here (abw) for any time at all, you should have realized we would not take kindkly to getting this kind of message (and on a Friday to boot).

It sounds like you need to address the problem and leave the rest of us alone. Probably 95% or more of your affiliates are good honest people who don't spam, yet you decide to contact 100% of us (because the president got an email from one person). One rotten apple spoils the bunch, huh?

Perhaps your company should step back and rethink this.

Ron - 7 Days A Week Marketing

If money is your hope for independence you will never have it. The only real security that a man will have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability.
--Henry Ford

[dazz2003]

all this hassle because one of the execs got a SPAM email ?????

(welcome to the real world)

wouldn't it have been simpler just to get that affiliates PID and ban them ?

thanks for the offer "send us your PID", but I am not going to waste any more time, just in case you get another SPAM email and decide to pull the same ridiculous stunt.

I am still in disbelief

Dazz

[Paul Schroader]

I understand that Oreck's approach to this could have been much different, and if I had the final say it probably would have. I have been at ABW longer than anyone (except maybe Guffy) who has posted to this thread. I was on the affiliate discussion boards even before ABW was around and I really do understand this space.

What you need to understand is that there are two sides to this road we're all travelling on. Getting an advertiser to understand what an affiliate program is and getting them to agree to an affiliate-friendly approach is not an easy task.

Try to think about this from a 40 year-old company's perspective. I know it's hard to get into the old-school thinking, and I consider myself an Internet marketer through and through. I've dealt with a lot of old-school companies who would never have allowed an affiliate program to be built in such an affiliate-friendly way.

We've had so many affiliates make so much money because Oreck is such a strong brand name and really understands how to convert browsers into buyers. I would hope that you wouldn't fault them too much for trying to protect their brand.

As I've said before, the approach they decided on was pretty drastic, but it's not the end of the world for anyone. If affiliates feel they have a legitimate reason to not be dropped, then all they need to do is send me a message with their PID and their thoughts and they won't be affected by these changes. If an affiliate is dropped, then it's not that difficult to sign up again and do a search and replace of their old PID.

Again, I've travelled both sides of this road extensively and neither side is perfect. There are good, honest people on both sides and most people are just doing there best to protect their livelihoods.

The fact is, we would love to work with everyone who wants to make money promoting Oreck and its products. Unfortunately, in order to protect a company that has worked decades to build a strong brand, many affiliates may be inconvenienced. For that, I apologize.

While this approach may seem an affront to some, it was deemed necessary to keep the program alive. As an affiliate, I understand that there are some programs that work for me and others that don't. I usually give those programs that communicate well and really seem to be making an effort more of a chance than others.

I know that you have numerous important decisions to make, daily. I just want say again, that this is a program worth giving a chance. If you can't see that, then all I can do is wish you luck in your other endeavors.

--
Paul Schroader
Affiliate Relationship Manager
Oreck.com
504-731-7252
pauls@oreck.com

[buy_online]

From my perspective, I agree with most of what you are saying Paul, including affiliates that haven't generated sales (for a time) and affiliates who haven't generated clicks. But what does that have to do with your exec, getting spammed?

If your exec. gets spammed, then you go to him, and tell him your affiliates do not spam - if they do, they are gone by Noon.

Cleaning up your affiliate program needs to be done judiciously (IMHO), and not with the wide swath of an axe.

It scares me a little, that your exec. came down the pike and you chose to (what looks like) panic.

Maybe it would be best for Oreck to get out of the affiliate business all together.

Fred

"Yo momma's glasses are so thick she can see into the future."

[Zeus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I have been at ABW longer than anyone - Paul Schroader - Oreck.com <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It just make everything worse and the registration date on this board doesn't mean the affiliate was not in business way before you.

It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

[ecomcity]

Do you sell at only retail prices on the web? If not then maybe selling your fine vacuums to the hotel, Airlines and office park crowd would jump the business. Priority #1 is to know your competitors value proposition as online shoppers compare prices like no other breed of consumers. If possible setup a closeout section at Oreck's site and push discounts to the trailer park moma's who can vacuum while holding on to their Budweisers. Then again I'm a newbee at this.

Mike & Charlie ...

If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

[Paul Schroader]

buy_online

Thanks for your post. I think that the exec getting spammed was the catalyst for revamping the program. Again, if I was in complete control, things would have been done a bit differently.

As this course of action was decided upon, I'm trying to make it as palatable as possible.

I would imagine that watching many executive decisions might be like watching hotdogs or laws being made. Not pretty. But when they are made, they're difficult to reverse.

I'm not saying that this broad approach was a mistake, nor am I saying that it was the perfect solution. What I am saying is that it will achieve certain goals.

1 - More solid communications with affiliates 2 - Protecting the brand name

If it's too painful for some affiliates, then I'm really sorry. Again, affiliates can contact me with reasons for remaining active or go through the re-applying process. This little bit of effort should be well worth it.

Zeus

I understand that "the registration date on this board doesn't mean the affiliate was not in business way before (me)". In fact, it's more than 5 years short for my tenure in online marketing. But that's not what's at issue here. The issues, again, are: better communications with affiliates and protecting the brand.

EcomCity.com

Looking at other ways to grow Oreck's business could be fun. However, the only task I've been given is to manage an effective affiliate program.

--
Paul Schroader
Affiliate Relationship Manager
Oreck.com
504-731-7252
pauls@oreck.com