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  1. #1
    Affiliate Manager's Avatar
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    January 17th, 2005
    Long Island, New York
    PepperJam followup
    After making a big splash here about their new network, you know the one embracing Upromise and Ebates.

    They were asked some reasonable questions by ABW members, (like how can a network also be a kick ass super affiliate) I guess they couldn't take the heat so they got out of the kitchen.

    I just found a similar attempt on 5Star forum.

    Which I answered.
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  2. #2
    general fuq mrbshouse's Avatar
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    January 17th, 2005
    what a damn shame...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    (I posted the following in the now-removed PepperJam Network forum, and even as I posted it I suspected that they wouldn't let it remain, so I saved it to disk.)

    mrbshouse wrote: "The first thought that comes to mind is that as a super affiliate turned network, how would I as an affiliate be assured my hard work (keywords for one) are not later used within your other ventures."

    petswarehouse asked about PJN's position on allowing incentive sites to join.

    ghoti noticed UPromise listed on PepperJam's client list, and asked "What kind of services do you provide for them?"

    RobynM and pepperjam posted long responses which did not actually answer either question. RobynM's post responded to and "danced around" the first question, but I searched in vain to find a promise of any kind. Pepperjam added that other affiliate networks also own "affiliate" sites.

    They've ignored the other questions.

    Billy Kay insightfully replied: "You're still spinning."

    Personally, I'm not sure the issue of "affiliate-turned-OPM-turned-network" is really all that significant. I always assume that my merchants are using any data that flows to them, and I also assume that every network is milking the data, too.

    Of course, I'm still peeved about PepperJam's failure to remove me from its spam lists last summer until I posted about it here ( Since there's no possibility I will work with PepperJam, I'm just enjoying the show today.

  4. #4
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    January 18th, 2005
    Mansfield, TX
    For all their talk of "transparency", they certainly didn't seem to want to be very transparent.

    Okay, so they work with parasites. LinkShare, CJ, and Performics all work with parasites, too. Okay, so they're an affiliate as well as a network. Linkshare and CJ are too. (Is Performics? I don't know.) On the surface (and that's all I can speak to because I haven't dug deeper), they're no better in those areas than the big networks. So, yes, they're going to take some lumps here for that. How could they have expected otherwise? We're affiliates here, and those are a couple things that we're very passionate about.

    Closing their forum was a pretty stupid reaction. It's like saying "we aren't going to listen to affiliates", although I really don't think that's is what they intended. The worst (as far as I know) of their actions (parasites and potential conflicts of interest) are out there now. If they would have stuck around, they could have shown us their better side, learned from us, won over some affiliates who aren't as concerned with parasites, benefited from being on ABW, and perhaps even come to see things our way on parasites and conflicts.

    If they're going to succeed as a network, they need to show us (not just tell us) where they excel and where they have advantages over existing networks. So far, they've only shown us how they're like the other networks. Except newer and with fewer merchants, most of which are already on other networks. And that they don't have the fortitude to stick to things when it's not easy.

    I suspect that with their background they probably have some innovative ideas. But we'll never know.
    Michael Coley
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  5. #5
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    January 18th, 2005
    Winter Park, FL
    Weird, I seemed to have missed what happened in the last day or two here, I've been busy. However, there's years of posts here challenging them on certain issues of importance to us, so it's not like a surprise attack or instantaneous revolution happened or something, they've seen our objections before. Closing the forum won't change how we feel on those issues or take away our ability to voice objections - so I suspect they'll be back someday. I have my opinions on certain things they do, but these are very smart people and they're not weaklings in the cajones department, this is just a short term butt pucker reaction - and I think somebody important there will undo this decision not long from now and they'll be back.

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador meadowmufn's Avatar
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    January 17th, 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    For all their talk of "transparency", they certainly didn't seem to want to be very transparent.
    From what I read, it sounded as if the transparency was from the affiliate to merchant direction... i.e. merchants had more insight as to where the affiliate traffic was coming, probably what keywords were converting, etc. I kind of wish that could've been cleared up a bit, but since they're GONE, I doubt that'll happen. If someone here has any insight into that, please chime in. I don't have the posts from their forum to re-read whatever was said with regards to transparency.

    I prefer not to work with OPMs that run from questions, so I'm off to find a comprehensive list of the programs they manage to make sure I'm not in any of them. They just lost a whole lot of integrity in my eyes. Their actions make me think 1) they have something to hide or 2) they'll fold at the slightest adversity, whether or not that's actually true. They aren't around to argue that and prove those assumptions wrong, are they?

    They did a great disservice to themselves and the affiliates that are partnered with them by shutting down their forum. So much for transparency.
    -Don't criticize anyone til you've walked a mile in their shoes. Then when you do criticize them, you'll be a mile away and have their shoes.
    - Silence is golden. Duct Tape is silver.

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador
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    January 17th, 2005
    If they're smart folks - how could they not know what would happen when they started a forum here.

    Ebates and UPromise are HUGE issues here, and have been the topic of many are affiliate mgrs who are also affiliates.

    Didn't they lurk before they joined?

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador Rehan's Avatar
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    November 3rd, 2006
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    For all their talk of "transparency", they certainly didn't seem to want to be very transparent.
    I think they were very transparent -- so transparent that we could see right through their PR spins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Lily
    Ebates and UPromise are HUGE issues here, and have been the topic of many are affiliate mgrs who are also affiliates.

    Didn't they lurk before they joined?
    I think it takes more than just casual lurking to realize how much of an issue Ebates and Upromise are to ABW'ers and why ABW is different from other forums & the typical affiliate 'guru' bloggers.

    Is this thread the best place to start for learning about why parasites like Upromise are a problem? Or is there a better "Parasites 101" thread that explains it in more basic terms (kind of like Donuts' Adware thread) ?

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