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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador Steveinid's Avatar
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    I was reading a thread in another forum when I ran across a post by somebody who was very frustrated at what was going on with google. He basically said that he depends on google for his income and that he thought google at least owed an explanation to everyone about what was happening. Apparently (like mine) some of his sites have dissapeared off of Google. Someone came back at him and said that google owed nobody an explanation for anything. I agreed with this latter comment. However, after thinking about it for a while, I am not sure that I agree with it anymore. Google has become a monopoly and acquired great power in this industry. I hear alot of people say that Tiger Woods is "giving back to the community" etc. I always thought this was bunk. I'd bet every lesson Tiger took was paid for, and if it wasn't, the community had nothing to do with it. In the case of Google, the community had alot to do with Googles success. At least I think so.

    So, my question is this: What, if any, responsibility does Google have to "the community".

    I'm still out on this and haven't made up my mind.

    "Bueller...? Bueller...?"

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Jane's Avatar
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    Googles job is to try and return the best search results. The engine with the best results is the one people want to use.

    Everyone knows you can't depend on a search engine for steady income.

    Do I owe Google something for bringing me traffic and sales?

  3. #3
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    Well Said jane , Many people are confusing who is google's true customer ? . The Searchers are Google's Customers and it has huge responsibility towards them .

    If it fails in it by intentionally delivering irrelvent results or masking paid listings as algo results then we can critisize google .

    Google has responsibility towards webmasters only when they pay them thro adwords/premium listings otherwise nothing !! ...

    "The Future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their Dreams."

  4. #4
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jane:
    Googles job is to try and return the best search results. The engine with the best results is the one people want to use.

    Everyone knows you can't depend on a search engine for steady income.

    Do I owe Google something for bringing me traffic and sales?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No. We don't owe Google nothing. They may still owe for their sorry a** penny a click offer they had at one time through their affiliate program. They had affiliates who did not quite make the $15.00 min.

    Google does have the se market pretty well wrapped up. It is a borderline case of a monopoly. I do not feel they have the right to pick sites out, based on their opinion of it's content, or design, and exclude them from the index, or results. I have a sneaky feeling they are checking pages with 'x' amount of affiliate links, and penalizing them. I think this is wrong. I hate Google. There will be a time in the future that Google will have to be held accountable for the impact they have had on people losing money. And, rightly so. I imagine that they perceive this to be some type of game they are playing with peoples dreams and livelyhood.

    I am looking forward to the day they start declining. It will happen sooner or later. I hope they don't need affiliates to promote them again. I will become an opposition that will definitely serve a reminder to people when Google was f*cking people over.

    Big Chuck
    If you can't run with the big dogs, then stay on the porch!

  5. #5
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    google is not interested in what trouble it causes any of us.
    the whole 'googleguy' thing at wmw is a complete joke - he knows NOTHING.
    but i guess that makes sense, i mean even if the guy does work at google they are not going to share their secrets with him so he can go post them on message boards.
    my income dropped 75% last sept after the last algo change, i've done ok this time round cos i learnt my lesson last year - don't target one google algo.

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador Steveinid's Avatar
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    Don't you think that when you position yourself to be the premium "free" search engine in a public position that you shouldn't discriminate based on what you think is right or wrong? (content vs. affiliate)

    I think Google is at this moment a monopoly. They have the power to put major companies under if they want. They have the power to make others rich if they want. I don't think Yahoo has that power. That is a monopoly to me.

    I think at the very least they have the responsibility to put up a page explaining what they are doing, what to expect and what results they are expecting. Their alternative: GoogleGuy speaking in tongues isn't really cutting it.

    The jury is still out on this one for me.

    "Bueller...? Bueller...?"

  7. #7
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    "I have a sneaky feeling they are checking pages with 'x' amount of affiliate links, and penalizing them."

    You base that assumption on what? I don't see this at all. Paranoia

    "the whole 'googleguy' thing at wmw is a complete joke - he knows NOTHING."

    He knows a lot, he works there. I think he is Googles version of Baghdad Bob. I think this update so far is a screwup, he's just damage control, PR. Eventually tho it will all work out, i trust they have some fixin to do.

    Google is a business, they got to where they are because of relevant results. In the end, it will be the people who search that decide if Google sticks around or not.

    "Nothing focuses the mind better than the constant sight of a competitor who wants to wipe you off the map."
    --Wayne Calloway

  8. #8
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    "google is a monopoly"

    How many of use have links to alternative search engines on our websites? I know some of us do (Big Chuck) used to but the majority of us don't. Affiliates played a role in starting google. Yahoo played a much bigger role but gigablast could be made into an affiliate friendly search engine. Heck a bunch of us could buy out gigablast and really get the thing going.

  9. #9
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    I think we all need to also show some appreciation to google for the service they are providing to all of us. they are a good engine and we should thank them at least for that. let's not forget the good things.

  10. #10
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    If s.o. lives in a community not only the community is responsible for him but he also has a responibility towards the community. I think that google forgot that and that is why they really will go down sooner or later.

    carneol

  11. #11
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    Free traffic from Google can be worth a lot but it's wise to think of it as a temporary blessing. Enjoy it, but develop other methods of promotion too, that don't depend on Google. Add some new strategies to your mix, to provide some stability amidst algorithm ups and downs.

    On another note, lots of affiliate pages rank well for lots of terms, so I don't think Google penalizes for having affiliate links if it likes the page otherwise. What may be at work here is the fact that affiliate pages/sites are sometimes weak in one of the big things Google looks for ... quality links that are truly external.

  12. #12
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    I agree with Buckworks I would also like to add that yes maybe Google does have a monopoly but lets not forget it took a lot of hard work for a long time by the google guys to earn this monopoly, so why on earth after all that work should they have to give it up?

    BTW. Google did me no favors this month but I'm hoping for better next month

    Travel safe
    Gordon
    YouTrek

  13. #13
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    Google owes us nothing.

  14. #14
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Google has the task to #1 make search results relivent to their users by directing them to legit keyword laden sites. Then they have to add enough value to their Adwords players to justify the costs.

    My guess is Google has had it with the coupon keyword spammers making their first 2 pages of results all point to lame incent directory sites. Add in the Whenu and Gator BHO popup hijacking scheme fueled by their competing PPCSE's and Google wants to put a stop to this quick. They do not want to be a SE frontend for couponers or no portal will want their syndiacated listings.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  15. #15
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>My guess is Google has had it with the coupon keyword spammers making<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hmm, hmm hmm.

  16. #16
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    I am really pissed off at this update.. I have a client's site missing completely, and two sitting at PR0 for some unknown reason. On the flipside, I have better results for some sites that probably I should.

    I firmly believe that the owner any site that has a PR0 penalty should be able to find out why. Is it a database cock-up? Have I been penalised for some unknown transgression?

    ________
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    Check out the latest Homeland Security press releases.

  17. #17
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    Dynamoo
    you could try visiting wmw and sticking your tongue down the back of googleguys trousers, apparently that works

  18. #18
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Well, there is a procedure to un-PR0 the site, but it's hard to tell if this is a database mess-up or a penalisation. I'm not sure I want my sites inspected by Google thanks!

    Check out http://www.webpronews.com/articles/2003/0218rn.html - this outlines the "codeword" process.

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  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador Steveinid's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I firmly believe that the owner any site that has a PR0 penalty should be able to find out why. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>My thoughts exactly. I have 2 sites sporting a fancy new greybar and one site that went from a measly 2/10 to a 0/10. After reading some stuff at WMW I find that this may be temporary. If I decoded GG's riddles correctly then I am not too worried about how this is going. Another thing I should consider is that I'm not the only one. Apparently there are hundreds if not thousands out there in the same boat.

    "Bueller...? Bueller...?"

  20. #20
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    WebMaster Satisfaction is always a Zero sum game . For every site Google trashes way down another site has to come up . Remember there is only one No 1 position ... So the total sum of happy webmasters after every update is always the same .

    But User Satisfaction is a whole different game , Google has to constantly tweek their algo to keep spammers out thus keeping its searchers happy otherwise the other SE is always a click away !!

    As i said before Google owes you traffic only when you pay for it

    "The Future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their Dreams."

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Well, I have to largely side with JM on this one. Google really owes us nothing. And to KoGo's point, for everyone who slips, there is another who gains, so it is, in fact, a zero sum game.

    Google rose to the top because it followed a simple business principle - the main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing. For them, that's search functionality. If they hope to maintain their stranglehold on the search engine market, they must continue to tweak and revise the process.

    And someone is not going to be happy, regardless of what they do.

    Sorry for rambling. I'm preparing to lead a workshop, so I'm getting ready to get on a soapbox anyway!



    Karl Smith
    phillyBurbs - Your Internet Starts Here

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Google doesn't have a "responsibility" to anyone. As a privately owned company, Google can do whatever the heck they want to do!

    If they want to stay on top, they will need to find a way to provide searchers with relevant results, and that means getting rid of the spammy sites with hidden text, doorway pages, etc.

    If they don't provide the best results, someone else will. AltaVista seems to be a bit more current in its results lately, and Google is going to need to find a way to keep the index fresher than the one month intervals it provides now. Freshbot helps, but I don't feel it's the end solution, as so many Freshbot pages don't stick for the entire month.

    If Google drops the ball on providing the best search results, it will also drop in popularity. I think some of the other search engines have figured this out, and are making changes to take over the top spot. Google's problems the past few weeks can't continue, or it will lose its popularity. What do you suppose Yahoo/Inktomi has up its sleeve? I don't think they're going to just give up and be content with Google in the top spot. I expect to see some big changes there.

    Andy

    "If you were born to be shot, you'll never be hung." -Unknown

  23. #23
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If they don't provide the best results, someone else will. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If Google drops the ball on providing the best search results, it will also drop in popularity. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    And google knows this - that's why I believe this is temporary. Whatever kind of change they are making, they apparently believe it's going to benefit the searcher.

    Google's responsibility is not to the people who depend on its traffic to make money. Its responsibility is to the searcher. If you think they are a monopoly, well how did they get there? From providing the best search results, and a search engine that is used more often than the rest because of that. How is that bad?

    The flipside of this is that when this is over, many who depend on google for traffic may end up doing better than before - provided they use good optimisation techniques and not spammy ones. However, the lesson learned should be not to put all of your SE eggs in one basket.

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador Steveinid's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Google's responsibility is not to the people who depend on its traffic to make money. Its responsibility is to the searcher <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Why is this? The searcher has paid google nothing to do the search. I provide a medium for google so they can offer a service to the searcher. I actually provide google with their search results. A lot of work went into those websites so google could use it as an end product. Why do they owe a flippant searcher something over me? I don't even have to offer it to them nor do they ask my permission to use it. It is just indexed because someone else has a link to it and there it is one day in the search results. (Side note: What would google do if I wrote them a cease and decist letter from using my name, company name, and all sites related to my company in their search results?) Why do they owe me nothing and the searcher something. The line of reasoning is that the searchers are the people who partake of their service. Without searchers no google. Well, without websites no google. Kind of silly I know because without websites there would be no searcher. So, for google to survive it takes both of us.

    "Bueller...? Bueller...?"

  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador Mike O's Avatar
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    It seems to me:

    Google's only "responsibility" is to make money for their owners/investors, in an honest and ethical manner.

    They have chosen to do that by providing pretty good search results, based on their model of what's a relevant search result.

    They and their users share the common goal of Google providing the best search results they can.

    Google has no obligation to do that in any particular way -- or indeed to even stay in business at all, just as their users have no obligation to stick with them if they can find a search engine they like better.

    -- Mike

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