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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador mailman's Avatar
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    Based on many years in the affilate marking game I have come to this conclusion. Trusted Third Parties,Parasite's and Crooked Merchants are the ones who reap the benefits from affilates hard work.This is only going to escalate as the industry grows and I believe it's time that affilates do something as a group whether it's here or a separate site. With over 8500 members we could operate our own trusted third party program with ZERO TOLLERANCE. Personally I would like to see this done here at abestweb with a manage team set up as a board of directors. We could actually all be share holders and build our own network. What do you think?

    Where Do You Want To Be Tomorrow?

  2. #2
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    The only new network needed is a 100% pure product only one. No 3rd party merchant aggregrators ...only those who fullfill online orders. No lead or CPC merchants. Only those merchants who accept responsibility to fill those orders are allowed into the merchant pool.

    On the affiliate side no "incented traffic" as the merchants need to raise commission levels without burdening their profit per sale. By eliminating having to pay the spiffs out brought by the incent crowd and eliminating the BHO's higher commissions this would work over the long run. Real value add by affiliates,designed strickly to condition and filter buyers out of their traffic, means the merchants will no longer be able to treat them like cannon fodder.

    Let the rest of the wanks ruining the existing networks keep on canibalizing each other. I think some smart folks at Froogle say this as a long term winner.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador mailman's Avatar
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    Your right Mike so go for it! I will certainly back you on doing something postive and cleaning up the whole affiliate scam.

    Where Do You Want To Be Tomorrow?

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    This may be the wave of the future. If the networks and merchants don't want to play fair with publishers, let the top performers abandon them and go to a new network that's honest, and truly focused on maximizing profits.

    It won't take long for word to get around about such a network, and the demand will be huge! No parasites, no thieving merchants, no ridiculous excuses when transactions are reversed, and no anti-affiliate updated product roll outs!

    Then we'll see how much money the networks make, when they only have the parasites and liar merchants to depend on for their income.

    Can you say "out of business"???

    And the mighty do fall. Remember when a company called Excite@Home was going to be the main competitor for AOL? They were so successful, but they're gone now. I would think if someone could put this together, organize it by getting some commitments from top publishers and merchants, it could be a reality. Haiko? Are you out there???

    One can only hope...

    Andy

    "If you were born to be shot, you'll never be hung." -Unknown

  5. #5
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Believe it or not any of the big three networks could set this ideal product only network in place within one week. Screen both the affiliate applicants and merchants based on best of breed qualifications. Problem is those not making the grade A program status would raise holy hell about negative backlash.

    I can just hear Walmart and Dell AM's asking Linkshare why they have to devulge their diversion tactics and clean up slow payment issues to get on the Grade-A network. LS and affiliates would immediately find out the true conversion ratios of their merchant pool qualifying for the Grade A network. Rather than put down someone like TigerDirect's Andy the Grade-A network AM's would have to emulate him and others like EA's Akiva.

    Serve the links, creatives and tracking cookies from a different domain server so the Popup and Ad blockers domain .HOST file wouldn't kill sales or clicks. Immediately 100 million potential shoppers who have poison .HOST files will track referrals. The legal dept can send out notices to the likes of WhenU/Shopnow and Gator that NO POPUPS can be triggered from the Grade-A merchant sites who voluntarily bann all incented traffic as a class action law suit participant. No competitor popup/under Ads allowed.

    Guess I'm on a roll today .. http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...013#3226026013

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

    [This message was edited by EcomCity.com on May 04, 2003 at 02:33 PM.]

  6. #6
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    Sooner or later the 3rd party networks get bankrupt, because they as well as the BHO as well as the parasites are dependent on affiliates. Treating affiliates in that way as they do does enforce affiliates to shut down their websites because they don't earn enough to keep them alive. The parasites are not able to generate so much traffic and sales from their own websites, and if they are not able to steal commissions from affiliates they will go down and with them the big networks. It is a long run for that but I am shure it will come.

    carneol

  7. #7
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    Hollywood did something similar in the past years ago. I believe that is what started 'United Artists'. Correct me if I'm wrong. We could have a network called 'United Affiliates' and have our own third party network.

    Big Chuck
    If you can't run with the big dogs, then stay on the porch!

  8. #8
    Member dete99's Avatar
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    Great ?
    I also wonder where all the click throughs go I rarely make more then $50.00 a month off of 9 web sites.
    My sites, half of which are 1st or 2nd page rankings in Google Yahoo and MSN with hundreds of click-throughs a day, never produce much money.I have never been able to figure where or who is making the money.I have been doing this basically as a 40 hr. a week hobbie for 2 years.

  9. #9
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    dete99
    You need to go read some of the posts on this forum. Noone should be making that with 9 websites after 2 years. You have to be doing something very wrong.

    Andy Williams

    Keyword DARTs - New search engine optimization software
    http://www.affiliate-masters.co.uk/k...timization.htm

  10. #10
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    making $50 a month after 2 years of 40 hours a week?
    i'm sure there are lots of people in the same situation.
    can i ask.. why do you carry on?

  11. #11
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    what i meant is, no one would work 40 hours a week for $50 a month, not even in mcdonalds, so what makes this any different, 40 hours a week is still a huge amount of time to give up for virtually no return

  12. #12
    Member dete99's Avatar
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    Hi,
    Let me clarify that I spend about 4 hrs a day with our investment club trading stocks and emini's.I make sure all the links are ok so not all time is spent on the sites.PerfectG I read these forums several times a day and follow the advise of the experienced people in here.My biggest doubt that is created in here are the folks that claim they make 10,000 bucks a month but refused to share their secrets because of the thought that someone will steal their site.A example is jada who wanted to help us with ebay and had us leave our emails but I never heard back from her.I enjoy working on sites and especially getting my sites highly ranked in the search engines.Why the click throughs with CJ,Sharesale and clickexchange, linkshare(a total waste of time)don't convert to a great extent is anybodies guess.

  13. #13
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Dete99,

    Maybe after thinking about it more, Jada didn't like the idea of 20 new "Power Sellers" so much after all!

    She did contact me after a while and let me see some of her auctions she'd done...all I can say is that it looks like a LOT of WORK!

    If you're one of the ones who think aff. marketing is "work"...ha ha ha, it's nothing compared to that!

    Check out any power seller's list of auctions--it doesn't have to be hers--and you should see that it's a quite workful way to make money. And get out your calculator while you're at it, those auctions do add up.

    But geez, I think it'd be less work to just go ahead and be a regular merchant. No scrounging after products (hook up with a supplier and you're on!) or wondering what each little sale will end up profiting you (because prices are set in advance), when you're the merchant!

    ~Revenue is King

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador mailman's Avatar
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    Chuck. Yes you are correct. We discussed this concept many times and I believe it's the only way to go.We the affiliates own, operate and manage our own third party network. If merchants do not comply, they are gone.ZERO TOLLERANCE!!
    It going to take someone to lay out a plan.

    Where Do You Want To Be Tomorrow?

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador
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    Mailman,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Based on many years in the affilate marking game I have come to this conclusion. Trusted Third Parties,Parasite's and Crooked Merchants are the ones who reap the benefits from affilates hard work. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I disagree. There are LOTS of affiliates who are making big money that have nothing to do with parasitic software. Many are small shops with less then five people. Some are single person operations. There are even more affiliates making decent earnings (8-10k a month).
    To say just networks, parasites and crooked merchants make money is a disservice to all the people out there making an honest living.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> This is only going to escalate as the industry grows and I believe it's time that affilates do something as a group whether it's here or a separate site. With over 8500 members we could operate our own trusted third party program with ZERO TOLLERANCE. Personally I would like to see this done here at abestweb with a manage team set up as a board of directors. We could actually all be share holders and build our own network. What do you think? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    This gets talked about alot. Personally I think this effort would fail. The networks expend enormous amounts of resources in human capital, money, and resources to grow and operate. Plus you have to attract good merchants and be able to scale and compete against established networks.

    Even smaller CPA networks are a major hassle to run, mantain, and make enough profit to be worthwhile.

    Any CPA network owners care to comment on the effort needed to make it work?


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I also wonder where all the click throughs go I rarely make more then $50.00 a month off of 9 web sites.
    My sites, half of which are 1st or 2nd page rankings in Google Yahoo and MSN with hundreds of click-throughs a day, never produce much money.I have never been able to figure where or who is making the money.I have been doing this basically as a 40 hr. a week hobbie for 2 years. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Making money through affiliate marketing is tough to do. If you are making some money pat yourself on the back- it is a start so don't give up hope.

    I would have to see your site(s) to give some real input. If you're only making $50.00 a month why not put it to the community for public feedback? Your risk is defintely minimal and combined/experienced community minds might be able to help guide you.

    In terms of making money could it be that the audience you're targeting is not good for converting into revenue? You must target the right "type" of traffic if you want it to convert to $$$. Visitors and clicks are not enough. If you have the "right" traffic it WILL convert.


    regards,
    Wayne

    Wayne Porter
    V.P. Product Development
    AffTrack LLC.
    http://www.afftrack.com
    http://www.revtrends.com
    Get a free two-week trial use code ABWEB at RevTrends.com

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador mailman's Avatar
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    Nice posting Mr Porter.How many affiliates do you think out of 8500 here are making 10,000 a month or even close?
    Your posting got my attention so I visited your two sites and I can see why you wouldn't endorse any type of affiliate operated network. You offer a service to the merchants with one and also one for the affilate on the other. Your kind of in the middle here.

    Where Do You Want To Be Tomorrow?

  17. #17
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    I agree with Wayne. If you have the right traffic and the right type of site, you can make some money from affiliate marketing. It's not easy - not by a long shot - but it can be done. While I wish I could claim I made ALL the money like this thread title states, I did manage to make 2K of it last month from my only site - which I'm pleased about after less than 1 year doing this.

    Dete99

    If your having these bad results with 9 sites, something must really be wrong with something, especially if you have good Google SERPS. Either your sites don't send the right traffic to merchants, you have a bunch of bad merchants on the other end of the link, or something is wrong with your sites in the way you present the merchants/products. I only wish I had 9 sites sending hundreds of clicks per day to merchants.

    Jim

  18. #18
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Wayne knows the short cut around this barrier..

    "In terms of making money could it be that the audience you're targeting is not good for converting into revenue? You must target the right "type" of traffic if you want it to convert to $$$. Visitors and clicks are not enough. If you have the "right" traffic it WILL convert."

    Intercept the traffic at the point where they become the most likely to purchase ...at time of checkout with goodies in their basket. BHO's eliminate all the negatives of having to generate mouse traffic and then the pre-sell qualifying steps. Just switch the commissioned cash register clerk at the point of sale while poisoning or planting all the competitor cookies by all means possible.

    I don't refute the logic but only the ethics of the means. I'm sure a MLS real estate broker would object if all their home listings were hijacked by some insider swapping out their realty # in the database or took over at the time of closing.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  19. #19
    ShareASale President/CEO and ABW Veteran Brian - ShareASale's Avatar
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    Wayne,

    I'll pony up here...as an owner operator of two smallish networks, i've also heard a lot of talk about a new network, an affiliate run network, etc... and although i would love to see it work out for anyone who attempted such a thing - i have to say in all honesty it is much harder than it looks. it would take a VERY serious effort from a strong group - not impossible, just saying it is a difficult run. the issues are complex, not nearly as straight forward as this thread would suggest....

    Thanks,

    -Brian Littleton
    -Owner/Operator Shareasale.com
    brian@shareasale.com

  20. #20
    ShareASale President/CEO and ABW Veteran Brian - ShareASale's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Serve the links, creatives and tracking cookies from a different domain server so the Popup and Ad blockers domain .HOST file wouldn't kill sales or clicks. Immediately 100 million potential shoppers who have poison .HOST files will track referrals. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Cookie has to be set and read from the same domain, eh? otherwise good point...

    Thanks,

    -Brian Littleton
    -Owner/Operator Shareasale.com
    brian@shareasale.com

  21. #21
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    Interesting thread, has been discussed before many times..

    As i have said before, you can count on Tiger for one of the first merchants, and you can probably count with Kowabunga and their new version that was just released, totally geared for e-commerce product merchandising...

    Who wants to take the ball?

    Haiko?
    Tood? (Kowabunga)

    Andy Rodriguez,
    Online Advertising / Affiliate Marketing Manager

    TigerDirect.com
    P: (305) 415-2313
    E: andy.rodriguez@tigerdirect.com
    ICQ: 175010
    AIM: miamitigercub

  22. #22
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by shareasale:
    I'll pony up here...as an owner operator of two smallish networks, i've also heard a lot of talk about a new network, an affiliate run network, etc... and although i would love to see it work out for anyone who attempted such a thing - i have to say in all honesty it is much harder than it looks. it would take a VERY serious effort from a strong group - not impossible, just saying it is a difficult run. the issues are complex, not nearly as straight forward as this thread would suggest....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    ... and I'd like to add that SaS is the definition of that "ideal" network right now ... their growth is phenomenal and couldn't have a better man running it!

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  23. #23
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    SaS is also where all the niche merchants who have a chance of actually selling something are, if you're wondering where CJ kicked 'em to!

    I was looking for new merchants last week and after seeing the barren wasteland of merchants in saturated categories--like credit card pushers, hosting places, software download sellers, and other unsaleable (for me) crap--in the "new merchant" list at CJ, I went to SaS in desperation!

    Within 5 minutes I had found one that fit my ideal criteria: Lots of people looking for the items...and not a lot of merchants/affs that know they're looking.

    In a way I'm glad, since it means that the right kind of merchant really hasn't disappeared--but in a way I'm disappointed because these are the kinds of merchants that used to be at CJ like so many gold nuggets.

    ~Revenue is King

  24. #24
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    I think there must be something seriously wrong with your sites. or maybe u are targetting the wrong keyword. It is hard to believe that after 2 years and 9 sites , you are making less than $50 a mth.
    Try joining affilate programs of different types. Maybe you will hit a gold mine with one

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dete99:
    Great ?
    I also wonder where all the click throughs go I rarely make more then $50.00 a month off of 9 web sites.
    My sites, half of which are 1st or 2nd page rankings in Google Yahoo and MSN with hundreds of click-throughs a day, never produce much money.I have never been able to figure where or who is making the money.I have been doing this basically as a 40 hr. a week hobbie for 2 years.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    "The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it."

  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Nice posting Mr Porter.How many affiliates do you think out of 8500 here are making 10,000 a month or even close? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    In this community? I have no idea.


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Your posting got my attention so I visited your two sites and I can see why you wouldn't endorse any type of affiliate operated network. You offer a service to the merchants with one and also one for the affilate on the other. Your kind of in the middle here. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    I don't think you understand what we do, but we don't offer a service to the merchants with one and also one for the affilate on the other."

    Yes we are in the middle, but it has nothing to do with my unwillingness to "endorse" an affiliate run network. I think Brian summed it up perfectly in his previous post and he would know best since he has actually launched and runs a 3rd party network.

    People advance this idea and seem to think that launching a 3rd party network is easy or that having a network that doesn't allow "parasites" will solve their problems. It isn't easy and that will not solve the problems.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Intercept the traffic at the point where they become the most likely to purchase ...at time of checkout with goodies in their basket. BHO's eliminate all the negatives of having to generate mouse traffic and then the pre-sell qualifying steps. Just switch the commissioned cash register clerk at the point of sale while poisoning or planting all the competitor cookies by all means possible.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Mike has the right concept, but once again he has fallen back into his frothing parasitic rhetoric.

    You do want to target traffic when they are most likely to purchase.

    Imagine a qualification process that looks like a funnel, as the visitor moves down the funnel they are further qualified, and they exit when they pull out the credit card and make the purchase.

    best,
    Wayne

    Wayne Porter
    V.P. Product Development
    AffTrack LLC.
    http://www.afftrack.com
    http://www.revtrends.com
    Get a free two-week trial use code ABWEB at RevTrends.com

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