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  1. #1
    Outsourced Program Manager
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    reversal stats
    I was curious.
    I have just had to reverse an order because it was a duplicate. Ok, so now it shows in my reversal stats (yes i know its only for a month but...)

    Is there anyway that affiliates or anyone can see the reson behind the reversals?

    This would help some programs that seem to have a high reversale rate for no bad reason.

    We have had 3 reversals since we started, 2 for duplicate orders and 1 for fraud attempt.

    Just an idea...
    Richard
    Affiliate Marketing Manager AMWSO
    Digestinol, Luxe-Design


    Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up. Pablo Picasso

  2. #2
    AM Navigator Geno Prussakov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard - AMWSO
    Is there anyway that affiliates or anyone can see the reson behind the reversals?
    Like a database of reasons for reversals that is publically viewable?

    Geno

  3. #3
    Affiliate Manager PetsWarehouse.com's Avatar
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    The system is set up so it can not be corrected, I had an affiliate run 5 test orders a few months ago both of us asked Brian to cancel the reversal, he wouldn't do it.

    So what the affiliate and I agreed to do it let the transactions go thru and he was nice enough to send us back a check to re reimburse the commissions of about $80.

    We did this to not to skew our stats.

    It is a terrible system SAS has and very unfair not to adjust their records when an error takes place.

    A merchant shouldn't have to go thru these hoops.

    How do other networks handle errors?
    Bob Pets Warehouse
    Worlds Largest Pet Supply DataBase
    Join our Share-A-Sale Program [since 2003] Twitter



  4. #4
    Outsourced Program Manager
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    I agree.
    for one dup order we let it go thru as the commissions were low but the fraudent one... we had to cancel as well as this last one as the commissions to the affiliate ( AND SAS) were quite high.

    One one hand i look at it thru Brian's side, they cant really know for sure if the merchant/AM cancelleld the sale for a dup order or just to get out of paying commisisons. Same with having a drop down list showing reason, (as Geno suggested and i thought of) I am a 100% correct AM and my merchant is also BUT there are some bad ones out there so whose to say really the reason they cancel the sale?

    screwed if u do screwed if ya don't :-)

    I also would love to know how CJ or LS or others handle this.

    Maybe get rid of the stat showing reversal is the best way.
    Richard
    Affiliate Marketing Manager AMWSO
    Digestinol, Luxe-Design


    Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up. Pablo Picasso

  5. #5
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard - AMWSO
    Maybe get rid of the stat showing reversal is the best way.
    ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Reversals for legitimate reasons may temporarily put a red flag on a program, but this is one of the stats that a lot of us use to determine whether we want to join a program or to gauge our performance in programs that we already belong to.

    When deciding whether or not to join a program reversal rate is only one of the criteria that I use and unless it's extremely high it probably won't be the deciding factor.

    Also if one of my sites is experiencing a high reversal rate for a particular merchant, I want to see how the program is performing overall in that regard. If the programs reversal rate is substantially less than mine then I know that I am likely doing something wrong and I can fix the problem. On the other hand if my reversal rate is in line with the merchants overall rate I know that there is another problem that is out of my control.

    If the reversal rate for a particular program seems out of line with the rest of their stats I am more likely to send an e-mail to the AM for an explanation or post a question here than to just pass on the program.

    We all know that some reversals can't be avoided due to fraud, test purchases and returns and take that into consideration. It is a valuable stat and helps us weed out the programs that may be continuously plagued by insufficient stock levels, returns due to inferior products and other problems that a merchant may be unable or unwilling to fix.

    -rematt
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  6. #6
    Outsourced Program Manager
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    "ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Reversals for legitimate reasons may temporarily put a red flag on a program, but this is one of the stats that a lot of us use to determine whether we want to join a program or to gauge our performance in programs that we already belong to.

    This is the problem. u have no idea if it was a legit reason or not at the moment. (Unless Biran can add a way that u can see the reason for the reversal) and even then we as the am can say what ever we want to as the reason... what happens if i have 1 affiiate that tries to send in fraudlent sales say 3 or 4 in one day. And before i can check with the merchant and then verify they are frauds and delete him his stats show up when i reverse the sales. You have no idea what happened that i have reversal sales.

    also same as yesterday one affiliate one good sale but one dup. what if it had been 2-3 duplicates?

    I really don't think anyone should use the reversal rate to determine if the program is good or not.

    look at uptime, how long a Merchant has been a member or has run an affiliate program and on auto-deposit and if the merchant is a match for u.

    When i join a program as an affiliate i only want see these things.
    Richard
    Affiliate Marketing Manager AMWSO
    Digestinol, Luxe-Design


    Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up. Pablo Picasso

  7. #7
    15 years and counting
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    Quote Originally Posted by rematt
    ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Reversals for legitimate reasons may temporarily put a red flag on a program, but this is one of the stats that a lot of us use to determine whether we want to join a program or to gauge our performance in programs that we already belong to.
    Yep, that's one of the best stats available at SaS. It tells us a lot how the program is run. I don't mind reversals, but I need to know what's their share in a program.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard - AMWSO
    I really don't think anyone should use the reversal rate to determine if the program is good or not.
    Sorry to disagree with you. That's a good indicator to join or not a program.
    Unfortunately, merchants or AMs are gaming the system.
    Some of them don't reverse sales, they just set them to $0. I know one who can "reverse" sales very fast. You see the sale coming with the $ amount, the next 5, 10 minutes, max 30 minutes, they are set to $0. What's the transparency in that case? What did happen? Is the order fraudulent? Is the affiliate using the wrong coupon, link...?
    Merchants should be prevented to do that.

  8. #8
    Affiliate Manager PetsWarehouse.com's Avatar
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    Exclamation
    How would this work Brian?

    A link next to the reversal stats wherein there would be the merchants explaination of any reversal.
    Bob Pets Warehouse
    Worlds Largest Pet Supply DataBase
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  9. #9
    Newbie Rolet's Avatar
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    I have wished for something like that as well. One of my merchants had a 100% reversal rate for one week, it was their 2nd week after launching, because of an affiliate trademark bidding....I would love to be able to show that the reversals are for violations or fraud not because of returns or unethical practices....

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