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  1. #1
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    My sites are suffering from a severe lack of PR and suffering in the Google rankings as a result. I was thinking of creating a personal site which could easily get inbound links, get the PR from that site and with a few links, pipe it through to my sales sites.

    Is this a bad idea?

  2. #2
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    I think it's a good idea. I've been creating a number of content type sites for the same reason. They are easily accepted into various directories and get lots of inbound only links. I think google is placing much more importance on inward bound links.

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    As the unofficial moron here at ABW, could you please clarify this strategy.

    Do you mean that you'd create a content/personal site that would be linked to FROM other sites, then create links TO your sales sites FROM your person/content site?

    Apologies in advance for my well-documented lack of brain capacity.



    Karl Smith
    phillyBurbs - Your Internet Starts Here

  4. #4
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Not a bad idea at all, but it's a commonly held belief that Google does not pass all the PageRank between sites on the same subnet - i.e. host it somewhere different from your main site.

    I don't want to ingite the old Sales sites vs C*ntent sites argument, but it's relatively easy to get PageRank for a c*ntent site, whereas a pure sale site is harder. Given enough time you can build a good network of c*ntent sites to support your sales sites.

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  5. #5
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    Karl - yes, that's the plan.

    It's worked well for me. Pre Oct 2002 I could get no.1 listings for hot keywords like this. But Google's changes have made the technique less effective. My suspicion is that page rank and links are playing increasingly less of a role in SERPS than perhaps before.

  6. #6
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    That was one of my concerns

    I wonder whether it is worth all the effort and money to build up content sites if in a few months Google is going to drop the whole pagerank/link system?

  7. #7
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    I think it is worth to build content sites because visitors are hungry for information, not for banner or link farms.

    Oskars

    Rosalind Gardner earned $436,797 in 2002 by promoting only affiliate programs. She reveals ALL her secrets step by step in her Super Affiliate Handbook (267 pages) www.renio.biz/rosalind/

  8. #8
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Oskars: I think it is worth to build content sites because visitors are hungry for information, not for banner or link farms.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Uh-oh. This is the long standing debate that we have here.

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  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Dynamoo:
    Want to take bets on a Leader sighting?


    Karl Smith
    phillyBurbs - Your Internet Starts Here

  10. #10
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    I've had some success with a similar strategy. I've built web sites for groups that I want to support, in exchange for some carefully placed links. A major advantage of this approach is that if you guide things well, you can get lots of help with content and link development.

    Even if Google decides to play down the Page Rank aspect, more links = more ways for people to find your site, and even if you part ways with the organization you'll leave something good behind.

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    And, once again, I am glad we don't depend on Google for the majority of our traffic!


    Karl Smith
    phillyBurbs - Your Internet Starts Here

  12. #12
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    I wonder whether it is worth all the effort and money to build up content sites if in a few months Google is going to drop the whole pagerank/link system?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Same concern here.

    And I wonder whether Google will even last this year as the top engine.

    Some thoughs, just my opinions.

    1 - Yahoo is going Ink anytime now
    2 - Overture bought altavista, and altavista traffic has been increasing for me recently
    3 - Google's current index is a joke(IMO)
    4 - Overture bought FAST
    5 - Google is private company that owes nothing to anyone - in modern days you simply can't trust a private co. like that to control the web search biz.
    6 - This is not a Google update. This is Google in severe technical difficulties. The last crawl is lost and the index is full of heavyweight SPAM!
    7 - Google, although they don't admit in public, have declared war on affiliates. Don't give me the "value added affiliate" vs. "spammy affiliate" BS, the truth is Google wants your $$ and they're not going to let you get it from their traffic. Don't believe me? Just wait for Froogle.
    8 - Google, although they don't admit in public, is using these forums to gather information on how to defeat the members of these forums. Some have said that Google is 800 million dollars co. that don't need our advice. I say we're the ones Google is coming after.
    9 - Google has created generalized fear among webmasters. This soon will turn to anti-Google sentiment - which is already increasing everywhere in the webmaster/affiliate community(read the forums, talk to people, nobody likes the monopoly they have).
    10 - Other engines are showing improved results, specially Lycos and Altavista.

    So like I said in another thread I'm truly hoping this monopoly will end and more engines will share the traffic!

  13. #13
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    Google is going to destroy affiliate sites. I just wish I had some type of content to put up.

  14. #14
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Want to take bets on a Leader sighting? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I think it is worth to build content sites because visitors are hungry for information, not for banner or link farms.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    It's not whether visitors are "hungry for" something that counts. It's whether they will PAY FOR it!

    They click those affiliate links and order, they're paying. They come to c*ntent sites, they (generally) MOOCH info but don't buy squat. So sales sites is what they're gonna get!

    I could package that as "information on where to buy things", but I like to call an ad an ad.

    Compare the effective CPM between a c*ntent site running per-impression banners, and a revenue site with good sales pitches and aff links. Then try to keep a straight face while saying anything to the effect of "content is king"! Ha ha ha...

    ~Revenue is King

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    moneychaser says:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Google is private company that owes nothing to anyone - in modern days you simply can't trust a private co. like that to control the web search biz.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    We've seen many examples in last few years that being a public company doesn't mean anything if you're doing "evil things."

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Google, although they don't admit in public, have declared war on affiliates. Don't give me the "value added affiliate" vs. "spammy affiliate" BS, the truth is Google wants your $$ and they're not going to let you get it from their traffic. Don't believe me? Just wait for Froogle.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    It's Overture who's only after webmaster's money. Think about it, they don't offer much value to the user, they just offer their list of advertiser. A user searches their advertiser database, not the web.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Google, although they don't admit in public, is using these forums to gather information on how to defeat the members of these forums. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    - Yeah, like they've got nothing else to do.

    About the ongoing argument about content sites vs sale sites:

    Nobody ever explains what they mean by content so the argument becomes meaningless everytime.

  16. #16
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Google, although they don't admit in public, have declared war on affiliates. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Google doesn't give a damn about affiliate sites per se, what it *does* care about is spam, and there's a marked correlation between spam and affiliates.

    And the spam *is* rampant. Do a search for "viagra" and look at the first result after the Pfizer site (the domain beginning the D). Now check the backlinks. See? That's the problem, an affiliate site that's spammed its way to the top. It's not rocket science.. except the next update I'd expect to see it with a PR0.

    I said this before, and I'll say it again, Google is a fine search engine but virtually every non-newbie webmaster understands about PageRank. There's nothing wrong with the basic algorithm, it's just been analysed to death. If Alltheweb had 80% market share you could bet it would be in the same boat.

    My personal bet is to maintain a mix of c*ntent and non-c*ntent sites to give maximum flexibility in the future.

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  17. #17
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Nobody ever explains what they mean by content so the argument becomes meaningless everytime. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    When I say c*ntent...

    Content (n): Stuff put on the web to educate (on some subject) or entertain the viewer.

    Say the search term is "atomic clocks".

    HowThingsWork.com is a content site which consistantly ranks well under that term. It will tell you, as the name implies, how atomic clocks work. (It will also tell you about how lots of other things work, if you want to know--it's far from limited to one technology!) [I figure that site is famous enough that it should be okay to mention it by name, but if the name gets edited out that's okay with me.]

    MySite will tell you where to buy them, and the MerchantSite itself will tell you to buy them at their own site. Those are both "sales" sites. Neither of them are likely to tell you how the clocks actually work, though!

    In my observation, people are very likely to satisfy their curiosity about the clocks on the first site, but actually satisfy their need for a timepiece on the second and third.

    There is also "entertaining" content. That's the kind of site where you go to play free games online, watch clips, see cartoons, etc. These don't try to teach anything--their users come to have fun. But they don't come to BUY...

    In a nutshell, if the "point" of the site is the content itself, it's a Content Site. If the point of the site is to sell stuff, and what's on the site is there solely to serve that purpose (ie, all the "content" is advertising copy), it's a Sales Site.

    ~Revenue is King

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Leader:
    Thanks for the sighting

    I knew I could depend on you!

    Since, by nature, we're on opposite sides of the fence to a large degree, I just wanted to pick a nit in your one post concerning content sites running CPM banners.

    We do run CPM banners, and I'd say the "effecitve" rate, as you say, is adequate, though not spectacular. What we've focused on is other revenue streams that leverage our viewership. While I enjoy a good laugh as much as the next guy, I don't have a hard time keeping a straight face when I look at our financials at the end of the month.

    As I've said before, I don't think I could stomach doing the affiliate thing full-time. You [and most of the people here] have more intestinal fortitude and mental will that I could ever hope for.



    Karl Smith
    phillyBurbs - Your Internet Starts Here

  19. #19
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Leaders analysis is a good one (as usual!) but I'd say this..

    ..if you're starting from nothing and want to make a living through atomic clock commissions, then you'll need an anchor on which to build traffic/pagerank whatever and that would tend to be a c*ntent site. Once you have a way of attacting visitors in that way, then you can concentrate on selling. (I'm talking about free traffic here, not the mysterious art of actually making money through keyword bidding).

    I run a mix of content and sales sites. Although I get loads of visitors looking for content, they buy bugger all, even though they'll click through on the ads, but if you can get the traffic that wants to BUY an atomic clock then you'll make more money.

    (Of course, if everyone does this then there'll be no content at all, anywhere.)

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  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    Leader,

    How about this:

    I have a page that:
    &gt; shows several model/brands of "atomic clocks",
    &gt; includes and compares each of their features next to their pictures,
    &gt; tells visitor what to look for depending on their needs,
    &gt; and links to merchant page and encourages them to buy it online through my link

    Isn't this an informative content/sale page? Doesn't it also give you enough room to put a lot of text and rank better?

    What I'm trying to say is people do not only need content when they want educate or entertain themselves. They also would like any appropriate content when they are shopping.

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    SamBay:
    I think Leader is saying that content (oops, sorry Leader, c*ntent) is actually an "ad" because it is directly attempting to drive a sale. Granted, it's not pushing a single item, but it is, for all practical purposes, sales copy.

    Leader: I apologize in advance if I've put words in your virtual mouth.



    Karl Smith
    phillyBurbs - Your Internet Starts Here

  22. #22
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    We run some large content sites. Besides some ads targetted very tightly with them, not many people from those sites buy things on our affiliate sites. But our affiliate sites do well and rank well thanks to the linking from the content site.

    At least that is how it seems to me.

    And many of the sites are on the same sub-net, some on the same ip. I have never seen a penalty. But I make sites to make sites, make reasonable choices, don't try to force anything just to get a higher google ranking.

    And for people glad they do not rely on google - i am more than glad I do not pay for the traffic that google generates.

  23. #23
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Sambay, I think that sales spin makes a poor substitute for real content. I can vouch for Leader's assertion about different habits of the two types of visitor.

    Karl, well yes, you've got bucketloads of content and good traffic levels, and that works too. 10,000 visitors a day with 0.1% buying something is the same at 1,000 visitors a day with 1% buying something.

    Which brings me to this.. you need to do whatever works for *you*, and I really don't think you'll make it far in this game unless you experiment with everything you can. And if you end up with a PR7 or PR8 site with shedloads of traffic then I'm sure you'll figure out something you can do with it

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  24. #24
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    I've briefly skimmed this topic so forgive me if I'm repeating what someone else has said but let me make this clear. What Leader refers to as 'sales spin' IS 'unique content' by the search engines definition. However, because she is an affiliate marketer, it is not unique content by the definition of the directories. It's that simple.

    Search Engine Positioning - 1 Design 4 Life

  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    Karl, Dynamoo,

    Yes, the reason I put up that page may be to sell those products, but that doesn't mean what I provide with it is not "content". Everyone create content and publish it for some reason, because it's thei hobby, or career, or they want to make money by selling banners.

    It's content as far as visitor concerned, and it's content for the search engines as well. Only thing may be that some directories like Dmoz would not consider it as "content" because there are affiliate links sprinkled, that's just their opinion which I couldn't care less in this day and age.

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