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  1. #1
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>There’s nothing like consumer self-interest when it comes to crafting a successful online affiliate marketing program, says the latest analysis of affiliate marketing results from consultants AffTrack LLC. Shoppers coming to retail sites via rebates and loyalty programs generally have the highest conversion rates and the highest average ticket, Jeff Molander, president of AffTrack, told attendees at the Annual Catalog Conference this week. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The entire article is Here

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
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  2. #2
    15 years and counting
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    I wonder if AffTrack is working only with "cash-to-cause, rebate and loyalty sites".
    Who dare to comment this article? Scary.

    It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

  3. #3
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Oh....I ssssooooooo have a post. But in the interest of professionalism, I'm going to finish my first cup of coffee for the day, get some of my own work done, and come back later for the actual post. Maybe by then I'll have the framework for a post that will be deemed as professional by some. I wouldn't want to offend and chase anyone off.

    [Edited to add:]

    Looks like a good decision considering I left out whole words in this post.

    Keep Your Hands Off My Cookies

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    I'm going to pause and reflect upon this for a while before I post anything.

    Andy

    "If you were born to be shot, you'll never be hung." -Unknown

  5. #5
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    As a famous mexican shopper once said "I don't need no stupid Rebate/Coupon" ...I got pessos.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  6. #6
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>“This confirms that cash-to-cause, rebate and loyalty sites are really the powerhouses for the majority of retail categories,” Molander says. “These are the affiliates that you cannot afford not to work with.” <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yup and they wil remain powerhouses as long as :
    *) They are allowed to use our own work and site content against us to openly interfere with our businesses.
    *) As long as they are allowed to interfere with our cookies which transferes commisions from someone else into their own pockets.
    *) As long as merchants have no concept of "loyalty themselves" and are to lazy to try and build some themsleves.
    *) As long as merchants are willing to pay a commission to parasites with customers coming to their sites on the customers on accord or even on behalf of a email promo the merchant has offered.

  7. #7
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    "These are the affiliates that you cannot afford not to work with."

    It's sad that merchants don't get the full story of how this stuff works. That by partnering with some of these affiliates they will also pay comissions on direct url type ins and their own advertising campaigns. Give them the full story, state the facts and then let the merchants decide if this is a good business decision for them. Based on the article i don't see this was done. Maybe Jeff can swing on by and let us know. And if he didn't tell them everything they need to know, why not. And i'm sure Wayne will pop in to join the discussion and this just goes to what i said about business relationships and views.
    And while we're at it maybe Shawn can join in as he had a list, now taken down, directing merchants to the same affiliates. Not giving merchants all the info they need to make informed decisions is doing them a disservice. Tell the merchants everything, state the facts, let them decide if this is a good business decision for them. And based on the merchants decision, affiliates can make their own business decisions on if they want to work with them.

    "Nothing focuses the mind better than the constant sight of a competitor who wants to wipe you off the map."
    --Wayne Calloway

  8. #8
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    There is one point that Jeff didn't make. That has to do with AffTrack's current customer base, and the fact that the great majority of affiliates are not enjoined with AffTrack.

    I can easily see how those numbers would reflect positively with the companies AffTrack does have as customers.

    Obstinatedon

    Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return.

    Anonymous

  9. #9
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    I am glad to see that everyone took a pause.

    Do not assume that every incentive site or cash-back to cause site uses a downloadable applications. This article merely underscores that this particular model is a successful one in the world of affiliate marketing.

    Stop painting the world of incentive marketing as just "ebates". Nothing prevents any affiliate from entering that arena if they wished, and doing it without a downloadable application. There are many that have done just that.

    regards,
    Wayne

    Wayne Porter
    V.P. Product Development
    AffTrack LLC.
    http://www.afftrack.com
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  10. #10
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> There is one point that Jeff didn't make. That has to do with AffTrack's current customer base, and the fact that the great majority of affiliates are not enjoined with AffTrack. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Doesn't mean he didn't make it, only that it wasn't reported.

    That is correct Don, these measures are taken from top-tier clients and do not encapsulate smaller "core producers" which is as good a word as any.

    It is a window into a world, but I agree it isn't absolute.

    best,
    Wayne

    Wayne Porter
    V.P. Product Development
    AffTrack LLC.
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  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador
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    Exactly

    "These are the affiliates that you cannot afford not to work with."

    Views based on business relationships. As their customer base is largely rebate/cash-for-cause/loyalty and the numbers provided reflect that.

    "Nothing focuses the mind better than the constant sight of a competitor who wants to wipe you off the map."
    --Wayne Calloway

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Views based on business relationships. As their customer base is largely rebate/cash-for-cause/loyalty and the numbers provided reflect that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Actually trust that is not true. We have a wide-range and mix of clients from portals, to discount sites, to thematic marketers and e-mail firms.

    We sell analytical services, we do not share in the revenue our clients produce.


    regards,
    Wayne

    Wayne Porter
    V.P. Product Development
    AffTrack LLC.
    http://www.afftrack.com
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  13. #13
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Still not ready to post.

    Keep Your Hands Off My Cookies

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador
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    "Actually trust that is not true. We have a wide-range and mix of clients from portals, to discount sites, to thematic marketers and e-mail firms.

    We sell analytical services, we do not share in the revenue our clients produce."

    Thanks Wayne, thats all i basically was asking in the other thread about business relationships. I didn't want a specific list of clients, just a general idea of what types of sites you work with. Now I know.

    [This message was edited by TrustNo1® on June 06, 2003 at 02:16 PM.]

  15. #15
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Some of our members have casted a dark cloud unjustly on the rebate/reward business model. It's wrong and foolish to assume they are all stealing your commissions. I think this stems more from either missconception, jealousy or predjudice than fact.

  16. #16
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    I dont really want to argue but you said "This article merely underscores that this particular model is a successful one in the world of affiliate marketing."
    If this was true why some of these "cash-to-cause, rebate and loyalty sites" do feel the need to steal from other affiliates?

    It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador ShoreMark's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zeus:
    If this was true why some of these "cash-to-cause, rebate and loyalty sites" do feel the need to steal from other affiliates?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I can't speak to why they "feel the need" but it would stand to reason that the numbers used to support the position in the article are skewed as a result of those activities.

    That said, anyone can make any statistical number say whatever they want anyway.

  18. #18
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Heyder:
    Some of our members have casted a dark cloud unjustly on the rebate/reward business model. It's wrong and foolish to assume they are all stealing your commissions. I think this stems more from either missconception, jealousy or predjudice than fact.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Heyder, 100% agree...

    From this merchant's view, we have no problem if a reward/rebate affiliate works with Tiger - as long as the transactions begin at that reward/rebate site and there is one click involved. From their site to ours.

    Once said site extends their arms around any other of our affiliate partners, causing interference, reminders, pop ups, pop unders, bells, whistles and whatever they come up with next, it becomes unacceptable and we enforce our TOS.

    No Tiger affiliate, small or large, has the right to interfere, divert, or persuade another affiliate's website visitor.

    It's really very simple - the commission goes to the affiliate that generated the initial click to their site - PERIOD.

    No interference allowed !!

    Andy Rodriguez,
    Online Advertising / Affiliate Marketing Manager

    TigerDirect.com
    P: (305) 415-2313
    E: andy.rodriguez@tigerdirect.com

    Parasite Free in 2003!

  19. #19
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>We sell analytical services, we do not share in the revenue our clients produce."

    Thanks, thats what i basically was asking in the other thread about business relationships, not specific clients but just a general list. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Some of our clients are on our site, others wish not to be named and we honor that. We don't get involved with an affiliates business practices. We provide analysis and advanced data handling and custom reporting. Our goal is to support affiliates, networks, and merchants as they move forward to generate money together.


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Some of our members have casted a dark cloud unjustly on the rebate/reward business model. It's wrong and foolish to assume they are all stealing your commissions. I think this stems more from either missconception, jealousy or predjudice than fact. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Heyder- I agree. Some people like to lump "parasitic software" and incentive sites together. There are many incentive sites that don't use downloadable applications. There are some Non-incentive based affiliates that use downloadable applications. It is important not to lump everyone together with a large brush. Companies need to be treated on a case-by-case basis.

    For example I had a talk with an anti-spam activist who claimed (to paraphrase) "All affiliates are spammers- they spam search engines and they spam my e-mail." This is simply not true. Yes there are some affiliates who spam search engines and yes there are some affiliates that send spam, but that doesn't make all affiliates bad nor does it make affiliate marketing bad.


    No merchant should ignore the loyalty category because they are powerful producers. They do have to make individual decisions on

    a) Whether incentive sites fit into their overall marketing plan
    b) Whether incentive sites with downloadable applications fit into their overall marketing plan

    This article focused on some useful benchmarks and industry observations, not about "parasitic software". Not surprisingly some members don't want to discuss metrics, they wanted to zero in and try to paint someone as furthering the cause of "parasites" when that was not the case or point.

    regards,
    Wayne

    Wayne Porter
    V.P. Product Development
    AffTrack LLC.
    http://www.afftrack.com
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  20. #20
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    Shoremark

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I can't speak to why they "feel the need" but it would stand to reason that the numbers used to support the position in the article are skewed as a result of those activities.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The articles point was derived from the numbers and a very broad range of affiliates were in the study. As Don says we don't analyze data for all affliates, or very small ones. It is a window into one particular world.

    COrrection on the 1.2 billion number- that was last year. This study was based on a very large data set though.

    regards,
    Wayne


    Wayne Porter
    V.P. Product Development
    AffTrack LLC.
    http://www.afftrack.com
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  21. #21
    Affiliate Summit Guy Shawn Collins's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And while we're at it maybe Shawn can join in<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    ClubMom is using AffTrack's services, and as a loyalty site that doesn't use any sort of software, we are seeing numbers consistant with the data in the article.

    Shawn Collins
    ClubMom, Inc.

    http://www.affiliatemanager.net - tools and resources for affiliate managers

  22. #22
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    Andy, I wish we could clone you ...

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> From this merchant's view, we have no problem if a reward/rebate affiliate works with Tiger - as long as the transactions begin at that reward/rebate site and there is one click involved. From their site to ours.
    Once said site extends their arms around any other of our affiliate partners, causing interference, reminders, pop ups, pop unders, bells, whistles and whatever they come up with next, it becomes unacceptable and we enforce our TOS.

    No Tiger affiliate, small or large, has the right to interfere, divert, or persuade another affiliate's website visitor.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

  23. #23
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    ClubMom and Connie's site are obviously the exception to the rule in that they have a strong following and active shoppers. They might go the way of the Dodo Bird if Wayne's client base can drive them out of business with their impersonal BHO point of sale popups.

    "Stop painting the world of incentive marketing as just "ebates". Nothing prevents any affiliate from entering that arena if they wished, and doing it without a downloadable application. There are many that have done just that....regards,Wayne"

    I'm sure Waynes pitch to the merchant audience addressed by this article includes contacts to the incent BHO's with special pricing if referred by Afftrac. Blast away as I see a synergy between Afftrac and the growth of theftware.

    My take is to remove all forms of incent marketing from the pay per performance industry forcing the majority of Afftracs clients to leach off the online advertising industry where they belong. Stats for the Ad-nausium popup crowd and Opt-out spammers must be a lucrative field. Wayne has no choice but to follow the easy money trail. Heck the networks just throw crumbs to the masses and caviar to the BHO's. Wayne is smart enough to never float an affiliate site as even the B-a-HO's are eating each other.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador Rick McGrath's Avatar
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    From this merchant's perspective...

    Agreed, loyalty/cash-back etc does not equate to parasite. We're kinda' ok with loyalty sites but not enthusiastic.

    Not employing parasitic practices is a given but that aside what I see is essentially facilitating migrating our -own- customer loyalty over to that of the loyalty site. It's a trade-off. We've been around for a long time. We have a large and loyal customer base of our own that shop us direct. Partnering with "loyalty" sites means that some portion of our existing customers will shift their buying habits over to the loyalty site and now we're paying extra for our own customers.

    The argument goes...
    1) They will bring new customers
    2) They will reactivate dormant customers
    3) They will increase conversion rates
    4) Your competitors are there so you need to be

    All compelling arguments.

    1) They will bring new customers.
    This is a bigger deal if you're building your client base. In our case we already HAVE a large customer file. Are there many more to be had? Yes absolutely. Part of the cost though is handing over our own substantial customers traffic. I'll admit we need better reporting on our end to track this to ease our minds. Additionally though, when a merchant has priced their rev-share on a customer acquisition model and now finds their program usurped by loyalty traffic where they're paying on every transaction this dramatically impacts your customer life time value. What I want is... A% for customer acquisition B% (and lower, yes lower) for loyalty if I'm expected to pay in perpetuity.

    2) They will reactivate dormant customers.
    I dunno' about this. What's inactive? someone who hasn't purchased this week? In the last six months? I already know we have a very long inactive cycle (auto accessories aren't exactly consumables) They'll take credit for when someone buys again regardless. I need to be convinced of this. Again admittedly we need tighter metrics.

    3) They will increase conversion rates.
    I have observed this to be true but not a surprise. People -will- return to buy where they get something back or they're building their account.

    4) Your competitors are there so you need to be.
    This is probably the tougher consideration. If customers prefer to do their shopping at Loyalty site (A) if I'm not there will they buy from my competition of come to me directly. If they have their own loyal following and your competition is there you'll likely want to participate but at what cost. I'm not going to pay customer acquisition rates for long w/o spending myself out of business.

    Yes. We partner with loyalty sites. Yes I screen for parasitic activity. But there is a trade-off and it can be very costly to the merchant and cost-prohibitive in some cases.

    My 2-cents.
    Sorry for the long post.
    Rick

    Rick McGrath
    Partner Development
    JC Whitney & Co.
    affiliatehelp@JCWhitney.com
    800-863-4227 ext. 5681

  25. #25
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Reading the article, it looks like good old "General Shopping" is right up there in most cases!

    Which is good. The money's supposed to come THIS way (ie, to the salesperson and the merchant), not bass-ackwards like the loyalty sites have it. The thought of paying customers to buy gives me the chills no matter how big of a user base they accumulate.

    From observations of the brick-and-mortar world, I'd say that some loyalty programs will become entrenched but standard stores should remain quite a force. The basic idea of loyalty programs has been around for ages (at least since S&H Green Stamps and probably earlier) but regular stores aren't exactly withering up!

    ~Revenue is King

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