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  1. #1
    A Real *and* Darn Cool Member! lstolze's Avatar
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    Unhappy Why do women brutalize each other?
    Okay, a little weird, I know. But I'm a bit sad today. I belonged to another forum where I posted a thing on the newest school shootings on Monday. I mentioned that I really wanted to be in Germany (we almost were relocated there, and we have family there - another story). Anyway, it somehow turned into this argument about how horrible Germany was because homeschooling is illegal there. This is primarily a stay at home moms type of board. I got a little ticked, and mentioned that I had read research on the negatives of homeschooling (not a lie), and that I could understand why they might want a more organized system. It got nasty with these women, and I said I was not going to post any longer. Then on Wednesday, I get a PM to please respond to some questions there. Well, I go back and they were basically insulting me, talking about how you can't trust Germans because of Hitler, you name it.

    If you got this far - thank you so much.

    So, I posted two more times, going off. I mean, I was my full blown sarcastic self. I'm certain I would have made ecomcity proud. At any rate, here we are, the end of the week, and everyone there is avoiding me, the thread is at 100 posts and 2k views, and they won't let it die. SO I think they *may* have taken offense to me simply replying:

    "*yawn*"

    But this whole thing reminds me of instances where we women really get hostile towards each other, and I wonder, why? Don't we generally have the same goals, just different paths to them? I had women slam the door in my face when I was trying to carry my infant in and out of stores. Men always held the door for me. So why do we do this to each other?

    Sorry for the whiney rant. Thanks for reading. Now I need to get some work done.
    ~Lisa - Brilliant Mastermind, or Nut? You decide!

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador JudiMoore's Avatar
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    Once we figure out the answer to that question, we can actually begin healing the world. I've been trying for decades to understand, but I don't understand brutality in any form, so I'm starting from a disadvantage right off the bat.

    I read a poem once that made the case for humans being like hens in the barnyard; one spot of blood on a chicken and the hens peck it to death. I have no idea whether or not it's factual, but the image remains.

  3. #3
    Affiliate Manager JusticeforGirls's Avatar
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    <feminist>I love you all! Even the home school moms!</feminist>

  4. #4
    A Real *and* Darn Cool Member! lstolze's Avatar
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    LOL! Thanks for the cheery feminist routine.

    You know, this is seriously why I always hung out with guys, or down to earth (aka Tom Boy) girls. You get pi$$ed at each other and you just give a smack, claim you're owed an alcoholic beverage, and move on.

    Ah, the hen house....definitely the hen house. They cackle incessantly....
    ~Lisa - Brilliant Mastermind, or Nut? You decide!

  5. #5
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    "Well, I go back and they were basically insulting me, talking about how you can't trust Germans because of Hitler, you name it."

    Some ignorant people on that board. Germans don't like Hitler either. So these are the people that are homeschooling their kids? Yikes, it's like passing the ignorance baton. And the reality is the school systems are better overall over there. Even DODDS schools (ones I primarily attended, american schools for kids whose parents were in the service) are better than your average public school, they have a 97% graduation rate.

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    It's all in the hormones. PMS.

  7. #7
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    I know you're probably not looking for answers and that you really just want to vent and get some affirmation. But guys are different than girls. We like fixing things, solving problems and giving answers. (Just look at the difference between the responses you've got from men and women!) So here are some answers.

    1) Women are usually more emotional than men, and are more likely to take things personally. You didn't mean the things you said (at the beginning anyway) to be personal, but they were taken as such.

    2) Consider your audience. As stay-at-home moms, many of them are probably very passionate about homeschooling. It would be like coming here to ABW and saying that parasites aren't necessarily bad or that affiliate marketing is evil. You just can't do that and not expect a negative response.

    3) You probably didn't mean anything bad towards America, but you have to realize that's another hot button. Many (most?) Americans are patriotic and saying that you would rather be in another country can be pretty offensive.

    4) If you really want to reconcile things (or keep from being made out to be the bad guy), don't escalate things. When two people are fighting, they both look bad. If one person is attacking the other and the attacked person stays sincere and respectful, they look good and the attacker looks even worse.
    Michael Coley
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  8. #8
    Newbie Rolet's Avatar
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    Michael - that was such a MAN's answer..........LOL

    I agree with it though.....and we women are more emotional and have a tendency to take things personally even when they are not meant that way - sounds like that is what this board did....

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    I am equally brutal to men and women.

  10. #10
    Visual Artist & ABW Ambassador lostdeviant's Avatar
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    This is such an interesting question.

    First of all, I didn't know they brutalized each other.

    I've found that women in Mexico are much faster than men to get violent. Men are more likely to shout an insult than throw a punch. Women here are more likely to attack without warning. I have a scar on the right side of my neck from when a woman who I don't know scratched me with either a key or artificial nails when I got off the subway. No, I wasn't bothering her, why would I?

    I guess she was looking for an easy target.

    It is so difficult to generalize. You'll always find exceptions to every generality.

  11. #11
    A Real *and* Darn Cool Member! lstolze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust
    "Well, I go back and they were basically insulting me, talking about how you can't trust Germans because of Hitler, you name it."

    Some ignorant people on that board. Germans don't like Hitler either. So these are the people that are homeschooling their kids? Yikes, it's like passing the ignorance baton. And the reality is the school systems are better overall over there. Even DODDS schools (ones I primarily attended, american schools for kids whose parents were in the service) are better than your average public school, they have a 97% graduation rate.
    THANK YOU!!

    For any that may remember, hubby is German, and I'm American. There are a ton of mamas from other countries there, so I didn't think making a comment about how I would like to live in Germany was going to cause all sorts of issues. And it literally started with someone getting all offended and saying that I was basically delusional because they don't allow home schooling. Maybe there is a reason for that, since most people that I know (including myself) shouldn't teach a dog, let alone a human being that needs to get through 75+ years of life.

    I think the flames are going to burn awhile there. Not that I care. More reason to work on my sites and not get caught up in idle chatter.

    Thanks for the comments and advice though. I did just need to vent. It's hard for me to deal with that, because I get nasty when I feel I'm being attacked, and that makes things worse. I am so not on that SAHM/HSM mentality. I thought it might change having a kid, but I think I became even more determined to maintain my individuality - and crabbiness.
    ~Lisa - Brilliant Mastermind, or Nut? You decide!

  12. #12
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Lisa,

    You're wasting your time trying to reason with or rationalize the actions of those morons.

    I don't understand "women who brutalize" each other.I think it's just stupid people who act that way, not necessarily women. I don't have friends who act that way ... if someone does, I avoid them, male or female.

    And everything Trust said. Germans are not Hitlers. The younger generations feel horrible guilt over what their "country" did in the past. My cousin's wife is German and she's wonderful. One of the best moms I know, too. And from what she tells me, Germans are great with children. Very kind, loving and supportive, plus their schools are top notch with excellent teachers who understand and have compassion for children.

    You about killed me laughing with this:

    "And it literally started with someone getting all offended and saying that I was basically delusional because they don't allow home schooling. Maybe there is a reason for that, since most people that I know (including myself) shouldn't teach a dog, let alone a human being that needs to get through 75+ years of life."

    OMG LOL LOL LOL - SO true! I wouldn't dream of home schooling my kids. Parents have enough teaching responsibility without adding academics into the equation. I have nothing against home schooling and think any parent who is able to assume this task is a hero but the response you got from the women on that forum is pure ignorance.

    And yeah Trust "passing the stupid baton" - LMAO!

    Unfortunately, children grow up only as good as their parents teach them to be. I think the majority of parents aren't equipped to teach preschool, let alone how to be a decent human being - There should be a school for parenting, IMO - the last thing we need is more ignorant people peeing in the gene pool and the mothers on that forum shouldn't even be potty training their kids, let alone assuming the role of an academic teacher.

    FWIW, I would love a discussion like the one you had with these women to develop on my parenting forum just for the opportunity to set some of these women straight. Actually, I think I intimidate most of my members which is probably why they don't ever post. LMAO

    I think I've had more intelligent "parenting" discussions at ABW than on any parenting forum. The level of intelligence here is a breath of fresh air.
    Peace,

    Rexanne

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  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador IOWNIE's Avatar
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    LMAO in deepest sympathy!

    That board seems tame! Have you ever hung out at a Scrapbooking Forum for a while! You talk about HOSTILE!!!!!!!!!!

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador SunshineTricia's Avatar
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    I run a forum with 99% women and I swear sometimes I find myself holding my breath and deleting threads because the women go off so fast. I think as a previous poster mentioned, it has a lot to do with the emotion. As women, we take everything as a personal attack and not as an issue attack. So we feel all hurt and want to hurt back. Men seem to kind of spit on each other (metaphorically speaking) in forums and then forget about it.

    I feel your pain. I've quit many a work at home mom board because things went CRAZY over breastfeeding, home schooling, etc. I have kind of a "do what works for you" attitude and it is NOT appreciated by people with strong opinions that there is only one way to do things. LOL!
    --Tricia Meyer-- I love being the exception to the rule.

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  15. #15
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    You know, I don't think this is exclusive to women. I have been all kinds of a dirty dog over at the other forum I post on in the politics section. Dang! For a time I was the in house token racist according to them!! LOL! Hard job but I guess someone had to do it. I thought that was hilarious. Well, I guess you had to be there.

    Thing is that it is a mixed bag of people. People are just that way.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  16. #16
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSanf
    You know, I don't think this is exclusive to women. <snip>

    Thing is that it is a mixed bag of people. People are just that way.
    I agree. I've seen men just as vigorously rip each other apart, and be just as petty, when they disagree on forums. Humans are a fighting species, no matter how hard some would try to deny it.

    As for home schooling, I think the public school system should be nuked into a crater for a few reasons. So I'm all for home schooling IF the parent(s) make sure to cover the gaps in their own knowledge, for instance by hiring outside tutors as necessary.

    What I don't like is when parents misuse the opportunity to home-school in order to pass on their own viewpoints unchallenged, which will only handicap their kids when they try to enter the wider society.
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador bettylou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leader
    As for home schooling, I think the public school system should be nuked into a crater for a few reasons. So I'm all for home schooling IF the parent(s) make sure to cover the gaps in their own knowledge, for instance by hiring outside tutors as necessary.

    What I don't like is when parents misuse the opportunity to home-school in order to pass on their own viewpoints unchallenged, which will only handicap their kids when they try to enter the wider society.
    I think this is the best phrasing of this I have ever heard.

  18. #18
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    There are a couple boards I just don't go back to, because of the overall feel of the place. Everything is hunky-dory as long as you agree with everything the self appointed leaders of the board say. That happens fairly regularly around the net, and is not limited to woman/woman arguments. It's hard to not go back, though, after you've been a regular for a while, it's like losing a good friend.
    Following everyone else is a GREAT way to become average.

  19. #19
    A Real *and* Darn Cool Member! lstolze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbowcreek
    It's hard to not go back, though, after you've been a regular for a while, it's like losing a good friend.
    This is true. I really have no desire to go back, but unfortunately it is actually a sewing forum, and I was in the middle of some trades with people. I need to honor my trades, and when I have to log in, I feel a little weird. I just don't think a hobby site is worth such aggravation. I have RL aggravation, I don't need to add anymore. It was a big part of my life for awhile, but I can't abide by a bunch a mothers (mostly homeschooling for religious reasons), attacking me as if I just told them God was nonexistent. I thought religion taught forgiveness *ahem*. Obviously they missed that lesson. Something else I'm afraid their kids won't learn.

    One post I did read from the flames was something to the effect of, "We know what our kids need. What does a real teacher have that HSing parents don't? The only difference is they are better at crowd control."

    Wow. If that's true of US teachers, that they are no better than parents, then I DEFINITELY don't want Karl in US schools. Again, I would make a horrible teacher. Some people make horrible parents, so to say that parents are just as good as teachers...? So why do we pay them? What do they go to school for? Seriously. And these people are teaching their kids. Yikes.
    ~Lisa - Brilliant Mastermind, or Nut? You decide!

  20. #20
    Affiliate Manager guinness618's Avatar
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    I think this "hater" sentiment was felt everywhere yesterday, Valentine's Day. I saw first hand how women who didn't get flowers or a gift were really dishing on those of us who did. I overheard a coworker say, "Well, we all know what she did to get those flowers." So hateful.

  21. #21
    A Real *and* Darn Cool Member! lstolze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guinness618
    I think this "hater" sentiment was felt everywhere yesterday, Valentine's Day. I saw first hand how women who didn't get flowers or a gift were really dishing on those of us who did. I overheard a coworker say, "Well, we all know what she did to get those flowers." So hateful.
    Ugh! That's awful! I always told women how sweet it was when they got things like that. Why would people get so gossipy over it? Jeez.

    Reminds me of being in high school. I dated a guy whose ex was less than gracious. She began telling everyone, including teachers, that I was 'giving it up' and that's the only reason he dated me. I stayed a virgin for two more years after that.

    I abhorr cattiness.
    ~Lisa - Brilliant Mastermind, or Nut? You decide!

  22. #22
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  23. #23
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    off topic, sorry....

    guinness- Tell you what, one of my favorite memories from dating was when, on a Valentine's day, this delivery guy brings a dozen roses into my office. I say to him, "Boy do you have the wrong office!" He reads the card and says, "Tom Rice?"

    I about fell out of my chair.

    I mean, I'm not exactly shrouded in subtlety, I grew up on John Wayne, Bronson and Clint Eastwood movies, lol.

    It was a funny day, a real conversation starter in my 90 person office, because guys don't generally get roses, especially not guys with John Wayne complexes. Fortunately, I had already arranged to have some flowers/balloons delivered to her office!

    So, it's an unnessecary pressure, that's for sure, but sometimes it's a nice reminder that one needs to let the walls down every once in a while.


    istolze- I have run across several homeschoolers here, and frankly they run the gamut from "Wow, they've done an incredible job with their kids" to "Those poor kids don't have a chance."

    One of the overlooked advantages of public schools is a sense of community, participation, and a maturation of relationship building. If parents home school, they really need to make sure the kids are involved in local activities and programs to help build that aspect of their lives.

    Personally, no way would my wife and I do that, heck, too much energy that I do not have to do it the right way!
    Following everyone else is a GREAT way to become average.

  24. #24
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    Catty Angry People....
    Quote Originally Posted by lstolze
    Ugh! That's awful! I always told women how sweet it was when they got things like that. Why would people get so gossipy over it? Jeez.

    Reminds me of being in high school. I dated a guy whose ex was less than gracious. She began telling everyone, including teachers, that I was 'giving it up' and that's the only reason he dated me. I stayed a virgin for two more years after that.

    I abhor cattiness.
    Anger unfortunately is an addiction in our culture. Hate has become the all time leading sport. People are brutal because it feels good. It is easy. You don't necessarily have to work it it to find something fulfilling. It has an element of instant gratification to it. Sort of like popping a pill. In 20 minutes you feel great. Before long, it becomes habit. Many people don't care who they hurt and far too often demonstrate that morals don't matter. Often people will turn a simple thing in to a drama feast and club you like a helpless seal just to get in on the action. Many are unhappy and unfulfilled and plum angry inside. The true nature of people comes out and sadly this all many people know. It is all they've ever been exposed to. I guess people are chained to they own misery. It is a damn hard pill to swallow I'll give you that. Lord knows I've been exposed to it too. I imagine most of us have a time or two. Hopefully, you can take a step back and recognise it for what it is and separate your self from it. I'm sorry that happened to you ma'am.

    As far as home schooling is concerned, I'm on the fence on that one. Many people who do send their kids to a public school never bother to teach them much on a college level by the time they are twelve years old so I'm uncertain how this will work out on an eight hour schedule here. I suppose it could be a rather noble task if done right though. I think that it should be an optional thing though.

    As pointed out above, relationships with people are what seem to make the entire fabric for success. So I agree that the child should have at least some social activities to participate in..... Just not too much. I see your point here.

    Your post hit close to home ma'am. I wish you the very best.

    Steve

  25. #25
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leader
    I agree. I've seen men just as vigorously rip each other apart, and be just as petty, when they disagree on forums. Humans are a fighting species, no matter how hard some would try to deny it.
    The funny thing about it is one getting banned over there happened to be male. And, I hated that he was banned even if the administrators were right and even if I was the one being attacked. The problem there was that he was one of the few with half a brain betwen his two ears, hence the heated discussions. WE were having fun. I guess the bystanders were all in a tizzy wondering when the bloodshed would stop. It hasn't been nearly as much fun since he left. He was such a good playmate and the rest of them are all just pansies.


    Ah well, I found YT and that is a good time, too.

    Sometimes, I am just so misunderstood.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

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