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  1. #1
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Anyone other then couponers getting Overstock sales?
    Monthly activity from individual product and category creatives, banners and text links generates over 1000 physical clicks per month. I'm showing Overstock can't report better than 1 sale per every 1500 affiliate clicks which means their one of the worse merchants on the internet.

    My guess is the couponers hijack 60 %, the BHO's, direct to merchant PPCSE poachers and various classes of cookie stuffers another 35%. Basically legit honest affiliates originating traffic need to drop or cut way back on Overstock promotions....

    Fed Overstock stats: Overstock.com, Inc. impressions=20,650 clicks=1,280 5.46% 0 0 sales=0 0.00% $0.00 commissions= $0.00

    The Big O = zero
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  2. #2
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    testing one two three... I keep trying to post on the disguised Asian thread Greg started but the posts are not captured. Guess Haiko banned me from posting to stop me from exposing the Irish!! LOL
    Join the Spicy Aprons Affiliate program on ShareASale Visit us on Facebook www.facebook.com/spicyaprons Follow us on Twitter @Spicyaprons

  3. #3
    Full Member Code Monkey's Avatar
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    Do you?
    Ecomcity, do you post Overstock coupons on your site?

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador purplebear's Avatar
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    Am a couponer ( one of the legit honest affiliate ones ) lol gonna get you to stop lumpin us all together yet. lol There are the bad guy couponers and there are the good guy ( and lady ) ones (maybe a minority but we still exist ) Just teasin you I know you must not think we're all bad.??least hope not.

    Anyway, have only ever had a few sales from them. ( and they were legitimate ones )

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    Mike, stop blaming the fact that your site sucks on couponers.

  6. #6
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    At first I had to check the date of the first post, the thread feels familiar.

    "Fed Overstock stats: Overstock.com, Inc. impressions=20,650 clicks=1,280 5.46% 0 0 sales=0 0.00% $0.00 commissions= $0.00"

    The usual answer.

  7. #7
    Comfortably Numb John Powell's Avatar
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    Mike, stop blaming the fact that your site sucks on couponers.
    Ouch


  8. #8
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    Plus the fact that the first post makes no sense whatsoever on so many levels:

    "My guess is the couponers hijack 60 %, the BHO's, direct to merchant PPCSE poachers and various classes of cookie stuffers another 35%."

    BHO's can hijack but how can a couponer. Someone goes to his site, clicks a link, goes to Overstock.com. My coupon site or any other coupon site can't hijack that. How can someone doing direct to merchant hijack that traffic? They can't. The only way that cookie gets overwritten is if someone after clicking his link, goes off and look for coupons. Now why would they do that? Well, here's one possibility, on Mike's site he has:

    "The latest Overstock Daily specials and Coupons are displayed below
    Overstock.com Coupons"

    But doesn't have any coupons listed.

    Now the other problem:

    "Fed Overstock stats: Overstock.com, Inc. impressions=20,650 clicks=1,280 5.46% 0 0 sales=0 0.00% $0.00 commissions= $0.00"

    I don't believe any of that. Why? First, I don't think Mike is getting that type of traffic nowadays. Second, anyone that sends 1280 clicks to Overstock is going to get some sales. I'm over 10% conversion this month, better than usual. I would have had over 128 sales with that traffic, he has 0. Third, he has admitted making up stats before, I think he's doing it again. Why? Because what he posted doesn't add up. Those clicks divided by impressions = about 6.2%, not 5.46%.

    And he can prove all that wrong by taking a screenshot, takes a minute or two. I want to see 1280 clicks and 0 sales. But we won't.

    And I do see you're using Goldencan with Overstock, maybe next week you'll blame them again for a 90% drop- http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread...=overstock.com

    Same old stuff, year after year.

  9. #9
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust
    At first I had to check the date of the first post, the thread feels familiar.

    "Feb. Overstock stats: Overstock.com, Inc. impressions=20,650 clicks=1,280 5.46% 0 0 sales=0 0.00% $0.00 commissions= $0.00"

    The usual answer.
    Your assumption Trust is 1280 shoppers saw some 20,650 Ad impressions on my domain pages and chose to land at Overstock.com's product page. None of them purchase a damn thing... right! They all knew the price and short description before the click and landing. Only 34 clicks were from OS banners and no page on my site requires any clickthrough to any merchant.

    I have put up 3 new merchant domains, with shopping carts, since dec 10th. Not a one of them do less then 1 sale per 60 clicks and I'll bet Trustno1 and the Overstock staff those conversion stats, for a newbee merchant site, are accurate. None have any affiliate traffic and rely upon Google/MSN/Yahoo SERPS and $20.00/day PPC spends. So until they settle in the search index and solidify their natural conversion ratio they are just a unbranded shopping destination.

    The one thing they have going for them is they're immediately profitable unlike Overstock. All get traffic and some sales from my webmaster promo pages as a jump start. Whoopie my domain traffic to an unbranded newbee merchants average 1 sale per 15 clicks.... without coupons.

    New pages like get-in2. com/handcrafted.htm or get-in2. com/overstock.htm and get-in2. com/finejewelry.htm just keep on sending targeted shoppers to Overstock. Their silent on what happens to that traffic, but they know everything about that traffic's DNA through multiple analytics programs. They just won't divulge which affiliate groups feed off those shoppers original cookies.

    Back in the Day of ABW merchant honesty Overstock's employee AM revealed to me the site redesigns I suggested helped make them convert 1 sale per every 35 visitors. That means Overstock.com visitors from any and all traffic sources.

    I just wonder if Asif (GoldenCan owner) knows what the the millions of GC clicks going to Overstock products produce in average sales conversions for his thousands of affiliates. I put up Overstock GC displays years ago and watched my OS income drop 90%.

    My linkshare stats show Overstock can't report but 2 sales on my last 6000 referral clicks to them. LOL as one of those 2 sales I made with a clients creditcard from their office system with all cookies cleared. The other one must have run through the Overstock affiliate cookie minefield un-harmed and intact.

    Now we all know for the last 2 years Overstock staff refuse, or seldom post at ABW, as they had noting positive to say about their program or affiliates. Wouldn't doubt it if Linkshare now runs the OS program on auto-pilot.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador newestuser's Avatar
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    I don't sell a huge amount from them, but it seems to work. I get a lot of:
    NEW_CUSTOMER $0.00
    Do some affiliates get paid for registrations on Overstock? if so, maybe I should try to negotiate that.
    as far as orders though, I get about 1 order for 100 clicks. I don't use the tracking images so I don't know my impressions.

  11. #11
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    Do some affiliates get paid for registrations on Overstock?
    No, but they pay 7% for Club O memberships which cost the customer $29.95.

    Rather than reporting new customers as a $0.00 sale, it seems it should go to the non-commissionable sales report. That's how Hotwire reports new customers, although I do believe that years ago Hotwire did pay a bounty for new customer signups.

  12. #12
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    The stats showing over 6000 clicks to Overstock product pages is for 1 year's traffic and came right from Linkshare reports. Many of my Overstock display pages show every single deal & coupon right on the same page as the ecatalog products.... http:// www. get-in2.com/overstock.htm GoldenCan makes that happen. I just refuse to go the TradeMark or Overstock.com domain + coupon route in the SERPs via keyword stuffing.

    So other then the forced cookie stuffing done by couponers for years I'll admit they haven't the means to hijack and cookie my traffic. Opps I forgot Ms. B showing some ABWers did hire 180Solutions, and other BHOs to pop forced cookies on my pages in one of her videos. Taking a BHO trainride to force/overwrite cookies is cheaper then Adwords fees for affiliates who target other affiliates sites. Connie of FlaminoWorld aught to know coupon competitors tricks for cookied clicks.

    The question still remains... Are your Overstock sales dwindling to nothing from physical clicks generated by product and category links? I could give a crap if your OS incentive pushing schemes now generate 100% of your commissions. My guess is that Only the top SERP page and PPCSE big spenders pushing OS incentives are making any money with the likes of Overstock. Not much room there for the thousands of Overstock affiliates... is there?
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador Joshua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecomcity
    My guess is the couponers hijack 60 %, the BHO's, direct to merchant PPCSE poachers and various classes of cookie stuffers another 35%. Basically legit honest affiliates originating traffic need to drop or cut way back on Overstock promotions....
    Your logic makes no sense. Do you really think that 60% of people landing on a merchant's site will go out and look for a coupon? I also can't figure out how "direct to merchant PPCSE poachers" would steal any traffic away... Are you saying that before making a purchase, someone goes on Google, searches for "Overstock.com", and clicks on an affiliate link?

    Also, people here make BHOs out to be much bigger of a problem than they are. The only times I have ever seen decent sales by eBates in some programs I've worked on the advertiser side for, is when they've sent out emails with the company in it, or featured the company on the coupons page. Without those features, they drive very little traffic or sales at all. Same goes for UPromise. Sites that also include BHOs make up less than 1% of the sales in programs I've helped manage in the past.

    Frankly, you sound like you just can't compete. Why don't you participate in direct to merchant PPC, or have a coupon site? Those are both completely legitimate methods of generating affiliate sales.

  14. #14
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua
    Your logic makes no sense. Do you really think that 60% of people landing on a merchant's site will go out and look for a coupon? I also can't figure out how "direct to merchant PPCSE poachers" would steal any traffic away... Are you saying that before making a purchase, someone goes on Google, searches for "Overstock.com", and clicks on an affiliate link?

    Also, people here make BHOs out to be much bigger of a problem than they are. The only times I have ever seen decent sales by eBates in some programs I've worked on the advertiser side for, is when they've sent out emails with the company in it, or featured the company on the coupons page. Without those features, they drive very little traffic or sales at all. Same goes for UPromise. Sites that also include BHOs make up less than 1% of the sales in programs I've helped manage in the past.

    Frankly, you sound like you just can't compete. Why don't you participate in direct to merchant PPC, or have a coupon site? Those are both completely legitimate methods of generating affiliate sales.
    Joshua I've gotten confirmation others here are seeing the same dwindling results from product and category links to Overstock. Like myself they can remember the Overstock days when every ABWers averaged at least 1 sale per 50 clicks or cried about reporting issues.

    OS would never before refused to answer why 6000+ physical clicks ( Feb 2007 to Feb 2008 ) from 100% network generated links produced just 2 sales. My pre-sell activity as to targeting & filtering shoppers before the clicks exceeds all their inhouse Google Adwords efforts. Makes sense as I'm not limited to 30 words in my promo text and I add images to the mix. So it's reasonable to assume my earnings should approach what Overstock spends on 6000 PPCSE keyword clicks.

    Fat friggin chance Google would allow OS to spend less then 1/20th of a cent per click before raising their minimum fee to $10.00 per click... LOL. There is no real mystery as I cannot find any natural SERP affiliates for Overstock product keywords that aren't pushing just OS incentives. So no one pushing OS individual product showcases, and deep links to categories, aren't making anything worthwhile as affiliates. That's why they no longer maintain a free forum here as who needs a forum to push the 3-4 coupons a month they crank out to all the playas.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  15. #15
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    "Joshua I've gotten confirmation others here are seeing the same dwindling results from product and category links to Overstock."

    Where? I don't see anybody posting that. Last time your brought this up you had people posting they were getting sales.

    Overstocks forum wasn't free, it was a paid forum.

    "My pre-sell activity as to targeting & filtering shoppers before the clicks exceeds all their inhouse Google Adwords efforts."

    A lot of your links are:

    We're sorry, the product you have searched for is no longer available for sale.

    Like the ones on your Overstock page.

    And 6000 clicks, 2 sales, one of your own, shows your targetting is off. You're still using something you said caused a 90% drop in your sales. If something caused a 90% drop in my sales, I would remove it. If I had a merchant that only got me 2 sales in 6000 clicks, I would remove it. Why don't you?

    And where is your screenshot? I want to see clicks=1,280 sales=0. A screenshot would back up your post. If you post it, I'll post mine with over 10% conversion this month. And yes it's probably due to coupons. Coupons you can grab, coupons you say you have on your page when you don't. They have some dynamic ones you can use so you don't have to update them every month, it's done for you.

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador purplebear's Avatar
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    ok this is gonna be somewhat off topic, so guess it can probably be ignored lol but to:
    Joshua
    guess this is a dummy question but part of what you said was: "The only times I have ever seen decent sales by eBates in some programs I've worked on the advertiser side for, is when they've sent out emails with the company in it, or featured the company on the coupons page. Without those features, they drive very little traffic or sales at all. Same goes for UPromise. Sites that also include BHOs make up less than 1% of the sales in programs I've helped manage in the past"

    could you please tell me then why do you allow them to be in the program?? There have been posts before where others have said similar things but if that is really the case (no, I'm not saying you're lying ) just don't understand....if they don't account for a whole lotta sales and considering there's so much objection to them from a lot of other affiliates....why have them in the program? I'm not attacking you or bein a wise guy just tryin to find out the answer

    and.....ummm ecomcity...not sure which OS coupons you're talkin about but quite a while back I had some from GC on my site and got very frustrating cos it would say there were coupons but OS didn't actually allow them those coupons so they would show on the page as no coupons....haven't really looked into which they have now cos I got frustrated with lookin like a dummy sayin there were coupons when there weren't

  17. #17
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplebear
    ok this is gonna be somewhat off topic, so guess it can probably be ignored lol but to:
    Joshua
    guess this is a dummy question but part of what you said was: "The only times I have ever seen decent sales by eBates in some programs I've worked on the advertiser side for, is when they've sent out emails with the company in it, or featured the company on the coupons page. Without those features, they drive very little traffic or sales at all. Same goes for UPromise. Sites that also include BHOs make up less than 1% of the sales in programs I've helped manage in the past"

    could you please tell me then why do you allow them to be in the program?? There have been posts before where others have said similar things but if that is really the case (no, I'm not saying you're lying ) just don't understand....if they don't account for a whole lotta sales and considering there's so much objection to them from a lot of other affiliates....why have them in the program? I'm not attacking you or bein a wise guy just tryin to find out the answer

    <b> Good questions as who needs the BHO grief and global "guilt by association" criticisms from group of questionable value Super Affiliates poaching your domain, trademarks and shopping cart with popup cookie setters. If they account for less then 1% just kick them to the curb.</b>

    and.....ummm ecomcity...not sure which OS coupons you're talkin about but quite a while back I had some from GC on my site and got very frustrating cos it would say there were coupons but OS didn't actually allow them those coupons so they would show on the page as no coupons....haven't really looked into which they have now cos I got frustrated with lookin like a dummy sayin there were coupons when there weren't
    Correct observation as no longer does GoldenCan display those 3-4 coupons placed each month at Linkshare for all affiliates to showcase.

    Trust I assume I still have permission from Overstock/Linkshare to screen capture or make public my account stats. For 2 years I gave Overstock and TigerDirect permission to use my Linkshare & BeFree account log-ins as I tested promotions and various creatives.


    The order I placed for the client was for a closeout IBM thinkpad notebook & carry case just under 700.00

    I tried doing product + active coupon merchandizer links, and even direct to OS shopping cart links with OS products. Those went out of stock too soon and didn't have alternate similar product landing pages like TigerDirect does... So back to square one. Either push the thousands of OS products one click at a time... or try to get on the first two Google pages with those same 3-4 coupons and forget pushing anything OS actually sells.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  18. #18
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    I don't know, that's incredible. Even if you converted at 2%, that would be 125 sales, but 2 sales, something is wrong somewhere. My own stats, this month better than usual at 10% for me. I just ran a report for January 1, 2007 - present and just over 5% and that's for a coupon site. Curious to what other people's conversion rate with Overstock is and if it's on mainly products, deals/coupons.

  19. #19
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I'll shed some further light on this subject of what's up with Overstock sales reporting....

    My 11,000 post dedicated to a similar issue with TigerDirect... http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread...work+challenge ... great read folks.

    Crux of the matter concerned merchant datamining programs interferring with network sales reporting.. "My $1134 commission month for TigerDirect in July 2003, prior to HITBOX, saw the same pageview exposures earning me $51.00 in July sale in 2004 with HITBOX active. ???? This was back when TD was at BeFree and I challenged CJ & Linkshare in July 2003 they couldn't together, with 3 times the clicks, equal TigerDirects sales totals and conversions ration from my TD creative links. The challenge was to throw a bone to BeFree for proving they could report sales if the AM's verified tracking codes in their carts.

    I was fired by TD for challenging their use of Hitbox whacking BeFree reporting. They moved to LS and still they never reached their old conversion levels. I went from averaging 300-400/month in commish to just wishful thinking...


    I'm sure Overstock has more then one datamining application active, but I'll not let them off the hook as via PM I hear others ( with a lot more OS traffic then me) have Overstock conversion ratios falling like a dead duck.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  20. #20
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    "I'm sure Overstock has more then one datamining application active, but I'll not let them off the hook as via PM I hear other with a lot more OS traffic have Overstock conversion ratios falling like a dead duck."

    Tell them to post in this thread or if you're reading, post. They don't have to post screenshots but they can post their conversion ratios, compare notes.

    Last thread I can find on conversion rates and some rates that people posted for Overstock:

    6.85%
    5.17%
    2.8%
    7.6%
    6.85%
    1.47%
    one looked like 9%

    then you had womanht who posted 6000 clicks and 0 sales:

    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread...ock+conversion

    I'm thinking with that many clicks you and womanht had with not getting any sales, might be something with your links or something.

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador purplebear's Avatar
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    I don't know if this will help ya any or not. I really don't know how to analyze this stuff yet to know if it's good or bad. Looked mine up at LS and it says

    imp. - 29535
    clicks - 365
    ctr - 1.24%
    orders - 4 ( thought I only had 2 )
    orders/click - 1.10%
    epc - 7.27%
    items - 414
    can. items - 0
    sales - $449.99
    comm - $26.55

    So, is that good or bad or real bad. lol That's from when I started with them I think til now.

    I had stopped with the coupons cos I said I got frustrated with them but think I put a little banner up for them around the holidays or from an email they sent saying something had changed with the links or something a while back. It's dynamic that shows $5 off $100, then their dynamic for the weekly, bi-weekly, monthly and deal of the day, a link for their warehouse liquidation sale and a free shipping for new customers

    Umm must've given GC (defnitely am not saying anything bad about GC. I like them it's only I got frustrated with the coupon issue like I said before ) another shot too and now it says Sorry there aren't any price drops, but then lists a bunch of em. Will have to go back to GC and see what that's all about. lol

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador Joshua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplebear
    could you please tell me then why do you allow them to be in the program?? There have been posts before where others have said similar things but if that is really the case (no, I'm not saying you're lying ) just don't understand....if they don't account for a whole lotta sales and considering there's so much objection to them from a lot of other affiliates....why have them in the program? I'm not attacking you or bein a wise guy just tryin to find out the answer
    I'll start out by saying that there's a lot of baseless speculation here at ABW about certain sites that happen to also have a software component, when some of these sites in reality have extremely low install rates of their software. The programs I've worked with don't allow any publishers whose business is solely BHO-related. However, sites such as UPromise & eBates can provide TREMENDOUS value to a program if a program is featured in an email, or featured section of the website. Besides eBates & UPromise, I avoid other software publishers that could possibly re-write affiliate links. You have to look at the situation from all sides. I'm a publisher, as well as an advertiser (not in the programs I've helped run), and I can say with confidence that I would not let an affiliate in a program where it would actually have the chance of damaging relationships or earnings of current affiliates.

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador simcat's Avatar
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    I don't do a lot with overstock but - Here's my stats from nov. of last year till today. And below that the same period last year.



  24. #24
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    Broken Items In a Box
    The Big O dropped my commission rate to 1%. I don't know if that is a universal change, or if they simply don't like me in particular.

    Anyway, my "Big O" stats for 2008 so far are: 668 clicks for $0.63 in commissions. It took about 300,000 page views to get those 668 clicks.

    My guess is that Overstock's business model is failing. People just aren't interested in receiving broken items in a box.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by yintercept
    The Big O dropped my commission rate to 1%. I don't know if that is a universal change, or if they simply don't like me in particular.

    Anyway, my "Big O" stats for 2008 so far are: 668 clicks for $0.63 in commissions. It took about 300,000 page views to get those 668 clicks.

    My guess is that Overstock's business model is failing. People just aren't interested in receiving broken items in a box.
    Man, How did I miss a 1% commission?!?!
    Have to go walk a beagle down to the beach, chase some seagulls, and back. AND then Overstock is gone, off my site!

    Thanks yintercept.

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