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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador
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    Now Use PayPal Anywhere Online (via a Plugin)
    I received an email today from PayPal:
    Now you can pay with PayPal at all your favorite shopping sites, even when it's not an option at checkout. Use the new PayPal Plug-In to:

    Shop securely anywhere online.

    Fill out shipping forms in 1 click.

    Save your receipts to review anytime.

    Install in seconds - download for free and start shopping today
    This scares the heck out of me, even more than Google Checkout because it seems to be out of the merchant's control. I wonder if the networks even know about this. How can the merchants and networks control their tracking when a third party controls payment?

    ADDED: I just sent emails to both CJ and Linkshare asking if they will be testing tracking when this plugin is used.
    Last edited by Snowman; February 25th, 2008 at 02:22 PM.

  2. #2
    Antisocial Media Expert ProWebAddict's Avatar
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    I didn't get that email. I was going to ask if maybe it was a scam but I see it clearly on their website.

  3. #3
    MasterMike HardwareGeek's Avatar
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    wow you guys are paranoid. lol

    Why wouldn't this track? If all it does is give you a virtual secure credit card number, and pre fills the users info for them.

    paypal has been doing this for years only now they have a plugin for it.

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador 2busy's Avatar
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    Paypal has only been able to do that on sites where merchants agree to their terms and accept PayPal payments. It is very scary to think that they could somehow force a merchant to accept Paypal payments without their consent. I wonder how they intend to enforce their terms in a case like that, where their terms conflict with the seller's terms.

  5. #5
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    If any customer submits payment to any merchant site I operate using this plug in, the payment is set at pending.

    I shall revoke any and all transactions.

    I do NOT want the business. PayPal is a rubbish payment system used as a last resort.

    I will not pay their deductions on payments, force myself to set up an account just to get my money for which I have an online merchant account, provide PayPal as a payment option, knowing that users with an account who want to avoid bank transfer charges will wish to pay by card but wait, they can't cos PayPal tries to take money from your PayPal account then listed bank account and REFUSES any card transaction of a card already registered to PayPal, making poor user transfer money to PayPal then pay for the goods, or simply state cannot resolve transaction on the card.

    As a user I hate PayPal for shopping transactions, fine for minor stuff but not for online shopping. As a merchant I vomit at using PayPal. It is absolutely crap.
    Flambi Media Limited - USA/UK/EU Affiliate Management Expertise

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador writerguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Jupp
    As a user I hate PayPal for shopping transactions, fine for minor stuff but not for online shopping. As a merchant I vomit at using PayPal. It is absolutely crap.
    So, John, really now, tell us -- how DO you feel about paypal?
    Generate more fake news.

  7. #7
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by writerguy
    So, John, really now, tell us -- how DO you feel about paypal?
    £%$%^^&*&%^$H;osjeardfhv*(U)(*%£"W^$&%&

    I don't reserve it solely to PayPal though.

    I hate payment solutions providers who only accept users in particular countries and who because you don't trade in their base currency charge you more, or if you wish to trade in extra currencies charge you more and my biggest hate at the moment....PayPal AND Google for refusing to pay me in US Dollars into my US Dollar Bank Account because my bank is in the UK and trying to force me to accept Pounds into a registered dollar account at $40 charges a transaction. Cnuts!!!!!

    So accepting dollar checks instead. Reason for the extra accounts (in euros and dollars) is that my sterling accounts are subject to VAT (laughably called Value Added Tax - a 17.5% surcharge on all goods or services traded) in the UK and that any payments from outside the UK are VAT exempt, so rather than pay the VAT then fight for months to claim it back, I opened accounts for non UK companies and consumers to pay me and avoid having to unnecessarily pay tax I would then have to go to the trouble of reclaiming.......only for both Google AND PayPal to ridiculously declare that as my geographic location is the UK I MUST accept sterling payments via bank to bank transfer....or I can have a dollar check.
    Flambi Media Limited - USA/UK/EU Affiliate Management Expertise

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador writerguy's Avatar
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    Wow. Sounds like a genuine merchandising/marketing horror story. I had no idea such craziness went on.
    Generate more fake news.

  9. #9
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Gary trust me it gets better...or is that worse.

    I wanted to launch a site which accepted dollars as my supplier sold me the goods in dollars and I was going to solely deliver to the US. However to permit dollar transactions from the UK based payment providers I must first have a sterling account and then pay extra for the dollar account. So I looked at US based payment solution providers and they will not accept non US based merchants.

    So I looked at Google Checkout. Nope. You either have sterling or dollars, not both (so you can't run 2 sites, one to the UK and one to the US) and if you are UK based you MUST have sterling.

    Oh and if I did use Google checkout and only accepted sterling I still have the you will only be paid in sterling because you are in the UK routine so my VAT gets messed up again.
    Flambi Media Limited - USA/UK/EU Affiliate Management Expertise

  10. #10
    MasterMike HardwareGeek's Avatar
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    I don't think you guys get what the plugin does.

    Paypal gives every Paypal customer a VIRTUAL MASTER CARD debit card.

    Meaning it is a debit card. this plugin just makes this information easily available so that you can enter your paypal mastercard number into the website.

    Paypal has offered secured credit card numbers for years.

  11. #11
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    oooooh so basically just a rubbish prepay debit card at a higher rate than others but a virtual one.....which can then expand into a voucher codes option with selected merchants signing up with PayPal to offer discount codes to users.

    "With the virtual debit card, purchases are paid for with a customerís PayPal balance. If there isnít enough money in a customerís PayPal account, the payment will come from the customerís bank account, PayPal Buyer Credit or the PayPal Plus Credit Card, depending on a customerís pre-set preferences."

    So people still get shafted on transaction costs one way or another.

    If PayPal wants us all to use their Mastercard tie in then perhaps they should be aware that a quarter of the world uses switch/maestro and most of those cards don't have issue numbers....try paying with PayPal using one of those and you can't. Alternatively I can give you a FREE Mastercard and lower transaction charges than PayPal and it isn't a virtual one but one you can use in real stores and not just the net.

    Virtual cards. Pah!
    Flambi Media Limited - USA/UK/EU Affiliate Management Expertise

  12. #12
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Also by supplying a universal number for these transaction PayPal are still getting round every financial regulation in the book. Deposit money and PayPal can keep it. They have no legal obligation to hand it back as they aren't covered and they insist in their t's & c's that you sign up to that they can do so for 6 months. For the latest rip off read paypalsucks.com
    Flambi Media Limited - USA/UK/EU Affiliate Management Expertise

  13. #13
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Oh I do like my coffee tonight. The cafein is rocking! I'm getting cantankerous in my old age.

    I can understand their business reason for doing this. It makes sense. However I wouldn't be interested in that at all. Now if a virtual card is going to be all the rage just give me five minutes please and I'll quickly set up a registration page and login page for you all to send me money for me to look after and you can use my pre pay Mastercard registered to my business (I can register loads of them and give you each a unique number - and get paid for all the new customers wanting pre pay cards), specifying your own delivery address. Then if I have any concerns about you I can hold on to your money for six months and deny you access citing "reported irregularities"whilst at the same time pocketing the interest.

    You'll still be able to request a review after I have frozen your money. I'll even send you a nice email:

    "Thank you for contacting ripoff transactions inc. We apologize for the delay in responding to your service request.

    After review, the decision has been made to keep your account locked. This decision cannot be appealed."

    Then after 180 days you can have your frozen money back.

    So is having a virtual card held by PayPal better than a real pre pay debit card which can be used anywhere online or offline or shall I just say "well I could do that" and set up a database and a little pay me your money option in return for your "virtual card".
    Flambi Media Limited - USA/UK/EU Affiliate Management Expertise

  14. #14
    MasterMike HardwareGeek's Avatar
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    Actually non business customers pay no fee, and the debit card has no fee attached too it.

    Only business customers pay fees with paypal and even then they are cheaper than a typical merchant account while their real merchant account is on par with a real merchant account.

  15. #15
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardwareGeek
    Actually non business customers pay no fee, and the debit card has no fee attached too it.

    Only business customers pay fees with paypal and even then they are cheaper than a typical merchant account while their real merchant account is on par with a real merchant account.
    Of course there is "no charge". You've paid your charge with the top up into your PayPal account first. Far far higher unit cost for smaller denominational payments as anyone will tell you over charging costs and their top up fees are expensive. They also impose daily spending limits. Real pre pay debit cards generally do not. Their currency valuation ratio is also currently 5.75c off when converting £'s into $'s. Better than a travel agent by 2c but terrible for a company tied into an agreement with a merchant bank linked to the forex rate. So given that for every dollar they make 2-3c's per dollar in top up charges, plus Mastercard charges the merchant anyhow...or if the merchant registers with PayPal to offer discounting etc then PayPal issue the charges.
    Flambi Media Limited - USA/UK/EU Affiliate Management Expertise

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador 2busy's Avatar
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    Gee John, sounds like you love PP just about as much as I do. I started out thinking they were way cool, they let me sell online. A couple of scammers educated me that Paypal is not there to resolve issues, just to take the quickest way out of them, so I got together a few bags of money to open a VeriSign Merchant acct, beautiful, just what I needed; and then along comes PP to buy VeriSign.
    When I heard about that I renewed my VeriSign contract for 2 more years so they couldn't switch me over to their PP gateway, but the first thing they did is take away the VeriSign Seal, the main reason to have VeriSign. Oh, I could have it back, but only if I was willing to buy an unneeded security certificate from them at triple the going rate. I just put up a copy of the VS logo and it worked fine. Last October they switched all accounts over to the PP gateway, like it or not, but they had to keep the gateway logos of VeriSign.
    I have about a week left on that contract but it is already cut off. I switched to Authorize.net over this past week. The PP gateway is a horror come true, takes about 40 minutes to capture a few payments, agonizingly slow and then times out halfway through processing a batch. If you click on "Support" it tries to log you in to your PP acct which has nothing to do with the gateway. Authorize.net is a little more expensive but my customers will never see the PP logo during checkout. Authorize.net has much higher security standards too. PP belongs with ebay, they make a good couple. My sales are auth only as well and I will not knowingly accept any of their payments. A virtual debit card may get by though because the US card associations insist on there being no indicator. I would have to feel sorry for a PP customer who thinks that they have any buyer protection just because it says "Visa" or "MasterCard" on the picture of the card. I keep my PP acct (empty) for my convenience but I wouldn't use it to sell even a T-shirt.

  17. #17
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Well I do like a good rant now and then. Just don't get me started on major banks. The uncertainty in the sub prime markets was a godsend to them in that they then introduced new charges which hit the poor the worst... and that was just the British banks. Then there was the hike in merchant services (Lloyds TSB may you catch virtual syphilis and leprosy and have all your bits drop off) whereby they wanted $150 per currency per month as a standing charge plus override on all transactions plus then the protx on top. Went elsewhere to another UK bank. Got a better deal...much better...plus an extra non bank alternative option and separate payment to 3 current accounts in different currencies and no extra charges.

    Another rant. US wholesalers who do drop ship. Durrrr! I'm a retailer. I have a website. It's even hosted in the USA. I even have a dollar current account. What haven't I got.....a US address. So Mr Wholesaler will not supply to Mr Worldwide retailer on a dropship deal cos Mr Wholesaler hasn't realised that the internet thingy can be set up anywhere.

    Rant over.
    Flambi Media Limited - USA/UK/EU Affiliate Management Expertise

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador
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    Here is the relevant part of the response I received from CJ:
    We took a look at the PayPal plug-in and see that this plug-in does not appear to require a customer to be routed away from the advertiser's confirmation page to complete a purchase. Our advertiser's receive transaction data from the confirmation page. As long as the transaction is completed at the advertiser's website, this plug-in should not be an issue. The PayPal plug-in seems to generate an account number that can be used to complete a transaction online as if the transaction were taking place on a credit card. If you have further questions regarding how the PayPal plug-in works, you may want to contact their customer support to see if they can explain the process in detail. At this time, we do not see this form of payment as an issue.
    And here is the brazilliant response I received from Linkshare:
    Paypal is not a merchant with LinkShare. Some of our merchants may allow
    payment by Paypal but LinkShare has no direct relationship with Paypal.

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    Haha, Snowman. That's a brilliant comparison of customer service between Linkshare and CJ.

    As far as the PP plugin goes, it seems like a non-issue regarding affiliate tracking; it's same as people using a credit card as HG pointed out.
    SomethingStore.com - Surprise and Delight!

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