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  1. #1
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
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    Rhea's Avatar
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    List of Merchants with MYAP & CJ
    Add to the list any merchant you know is with both MYAP and CJ as well as a drop-dead date for MYAP if you know it. (See http://pepperjamblog.com/2008/03/05/...nst-pepperjam/)

    calendars.com/Dog Breed Store (end of March 2008?)

  2. #2
    Newbie HazelB's Avatar
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    I've heard a different story about this that didn't sound so 'cut and dry' as that blog post. It's messy and it's heresay so I'll leave it to individuals to dig it up but for the most part I think it could have been written with a lot less WAAAAAAAA.

    Someone should call the WAAAAmbulance.

    Ask this, "What is CJ REALLY afraid of Peppergoo finding out?" The answer I heard blew my mind and I think the Peppergoo boys know too and are conveniently leaving it out.

    What a dirty game.

  3. #3
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
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    Geeze, Hazel, now you have my brain working overtime. I usually don't bother with the "who's zooming who" scenarios since I work with a very limited number of merchants but now you have me pondering.

    It's always been a dirty game. Hubby calls it a "circle-jerk." Crude, but apt.

  4. #4
    Newbie HazelB's Avatar
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    LOL!
    CJ obviously feels that they have a solid legal footing in this one that makes it different than MyAP or AssTrack or the others that merchants often use in conjunction with CJ. Peppergoo has a long and involved history with CJ and there may be some agreements (implied or contractual) that are being violated here.

    Okay everyone in a circle and Hazel will sit in the middle. Mmmmmm... pepperjam.

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador Joshua's Avatar
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    To my knowledge, PepperJam did not violate any contract with CJ unless it actively worked to bring affiliates out of their CJ programs, into the same program on PJN. Unless PepperJam's agency contract with CJ specified that their programs must be exclusive to CJ, there's nothing wrong with running in multiple networks. I can't remember much about agency contracts, but if/when I do, I'll post some more.
    Quote Originally Posted by HazelB
    Ask this, "What is CJ REALLY afraid of Peppergoo finding out?" The answer I heard blew my mind and I think the Peppergoo boys know too and are conveniently leaving it out.
    Mind providing that answer?

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador Joshua's Avatar
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    I also find it a bit odd that Kris isn't too sure if there's a legal issue at hand. Kris went to law school, and Mike Jones (PJ's COO) is a lawyer, or was one previously to coming aboard, so I'd think that one of these guys would know how to properly mount a legal response.

  7. #7
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    It's amusing to watch a fight between two entities that I dislike (I perceive both companies, PJ and CJ, as unethical and incompetent).



    As others have noted, we're hearing "less than half" of the story here, because we haven't heard from CJ (and probably won't). We don't even know if the claim is true -- I haven't seen confirmation from any merchants or OPMs.

    We also know that PepperJam won't tolerate any critical comments on its own site; their intolerance for criticism and suggestions, and their refusal to respond to direct questions, is what led them to close their ABW forum on the same day they created it.

    Perhaps the most interesting thing, to me, is that PJ is claiming that CJ is forcing merchants to choose between CJ's or PJ's networks -- they can have programs on CJ plus a number of other networks, but not PJ. Since I wouldn't do business with either company, it's hard for me to judge such a decision.

    I know that over the past few months, I've had a number of ShareASale merchants attempt to persuade me to "switch" from ShareASale to their program at another network or in-house. I consider that unethical (and it's probably a violation of their agreement with SAS). I would certainly not be surprised to learn that PJ's staff or merchants may have actively solicited CJ affiliates to switch to the PJ program for the same merchant; if that's a violation of the CJ terms of service, then this might explain why CJ would adopt the position that PJ says they have adopted. It's also possible that CJ believes that PJ is using data from CJ (which PJ can access because it manages programs for CJ merchants) to recruit affiliates to the PJ network.
    Last edited by markwelch; March 6th, 2008 at 03:58 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua
    I also find it a bit odd that Kris isn't too sure if there's a legal issue at hand. Kris went to law school, and Mike Jones (PJ's COO) is a lawyer, or was one previously to coming aboard, so I'd think that one of these guys would know how to properly mount a legal response.
    Marketing the network. I've noticed that a little bit more on the blogs. If a merchant were at both places, between the two, I'd still choose CJ.

  9. #9
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    Joshua wrote (in part): > "I also find it a bit odd that Kris isn't too sure if there's a legal issue at hand. Kris went to law school, and Mike Jones (PJ's COO) is a lawyer." <

    There appear to have been some very major changes to "competition law" since I finished law school (1989) or advised business clients (1993), and of course without knowing the exact facts and available proof, it's impossible to speculate. My hunch is that even if everything that PJ is saying were true, there would probably not be any violation of antitrust or unfair competition laws. I don't have access to the contracts between the various parties, but I suspect that CJ could assert a legitimate interest to justify the demand for quasi-exclusive terms, even if it induced merchants to breach their contracts with PJ.

    This is one of those situations where the end result is most likely to be a loss of business for both companies, and increased business for one of their more ethical and competent competitors.

  10. #10
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    Trust wrote (in part): > "If a merchant were at both places, between the two, I'd still choose CJ." <

    I absolutely agree. Sticking with CJ could make business sense for a lot of reasons. (Speaking as someone who won't do business with either company, and who doesn't despise either company less than the other, I'm arguably quite neutral.) I can't think of any legitimate reason for any merchant to abandon CJ for PJ, although I'm sure that someone who respects PJ might do so (probably based on the promise of lower fees and better service).

  11. #11
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    Marketing the network Besides their background, don't you think they either have lawyers or can afford to talk to one, get legal advice? Of course. It's just marketing. We're getting picked on by the big bad networks, whoa are we kind of deal. Support the small guy etc. Promotion/marketing.

  12. #12
    Best New ABW Member 2007 sfcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markwelch
    Since I wouldn't do business with either company, it's hard for me to judge such a decision.
    LOL. Funny and a sad comment on the state of the industry both at the same time.

    -sfcom


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