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  1. #1
    Newbie Rolet's Avatar
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    That's It - NO WARNINGS!!!!!!!
    You, who insist on practicing trademark bidding for any of my merchants where it is CLEARLY stated that we do NOT allow it, will receive no warning, I am done with this. Follow the rules or pay for sales that you will receive NO commission on.

    Just because I was gone last week at Summit doesn't mean that I still won't catch you and reverse your sales and set you to 0%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You realize when you break the rules, you ruin things for everyone. Instead of helping my other HONEST ETHICAL affiliates right now - I am busy policing your a** and REVERSING your sales. You are wasting everyones time and resources when you choose to violate terms of service. Why do you think you are so above everyone else that you should get to do whatever you want?????? That you deserve to have my time spent on you and not on honest affiliates??????

    You know who you are..........................


    ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

  2. #2
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    I just went to check your terms on the merchants I see in your sig. I see that for Artiko Chef, clearly stated, no TM bidding. ** see it happening here

    Half Price Banners - clearly stated, no TM bidding.

    Habitat Shoes, nothing whatsoever, no PPC terms at all. **just checked, see it happening here.

  3. #3
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    Three cheers for a "no warnings" policy for abuse. For most unethical folks, a warning is just a message saying "you're only going to be able to do this for a little while longer, unless you're able to more effectively mask your improper activity."

  4. #4
    Best New ABW Member 2007 sfcom's Avatar
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    Not only is this getting old on the AM/OPM side of things...it is getting tiring on the affiliate side too. It happens everyday and without fear of lost commissions. Screw with one program and when caught move onto the next.

    Of course the TM spots are going to get a lot of clickthroughs and sales...much more than many of my long-tail keywords combined. It's like teeing off at the golf course using one of those super-duper balls you get from the 50 cent machine at Wal-mart. The only difference is that would be fun to watch.

    -sfcom


  5. #5
    Newbie Rolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust
    I just went to check your terms on the merchants I see in your sig. I see that for Artiko Chef, clearly stated, no TM bidding. ** see it happening here

    Half Price Banners - clearly stated, no TM bidding.

    Habitat Shoes, nothing whatsoever, no PPC terms at all. **just checked, see it happening here.
    Habitat Shoes doesn't have terms on PPC Bidding - it's a go for it free for all....

    But the others do - - - - - - - - and I am done with warnings....do it and you are done.......

  6. #6
    Newbie Rolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfcom
    It's like teeing off at the golf course using one of those super-duper balls you get from the 50 cent machine at Wal-mart. The only difference is that would be fun to watch.
    Or having the bumpers up at the bowling alley..........

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    I'm having way to many affiliates lately "test the waters" with TM bidding that is against the TOS. We've been over this before here at ABW,so I won't rant, but basically there seems to be a rash of folks wanting to try it and see if they get caught, the politely appologize for their actions. If that happened a couple times a month from a newbie I might believe it, but what I am seeing is clearly not newbies.

    Yeah, time to take some actions here too I'm afraid.
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
    7 Days A Week Marketing

  8. #8
    Newbie Rolet's Avatar
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    HA HA HA HA HA (evil laugh)

    I changed you to 0% and look another TM sale just came in...... too bad you are paying for something you will not get credit for......

    I Am So Done With you poachers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  9. #9
    Analytics Dude Kevin's Avatar
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    HA HA HA HA HA (evil laugh)

    I changed you to 0% and look another TM sale just came in...... too bad you are paying for something you will not get credit for......

    I Am So Done With you poachers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    ...and you've stumbled into the ultimate catch 22 we as merchants and OPMs face. You may have paid out zero percent, but the perp may also have overwritten a genuine affiliate cookie.

    Not a criticism, as I don't have a better solution myself. But it's out there.
    Kevin Webster
    twitter: levelanalytics

    Kayak Fishing
    Web Analytics and Affiliate Marketing

  10. #10
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    It's nice to see AMs being proactive...

    As an honest & law-abiding affiliate, I was starting to wonder if you can only make money in this business by underhanded tactics (then again, maybe I just spent too much time in the parasite forum!).

  11. #11
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    Gee. She was so pleasant in person - LOLOL

    Another merchant did something similar on Valentine's Day. He had had enough also.

    I feel bad that your jobs are turning into babysitter services... but I thank and applaud you.

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador 2busy's Avatar
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    Wink
    Quote Originally Posted by Noth
    ...You may have paid out zero percent, but the perp may also have overwritten a genuine affiliate cookie.

    Not a criticism, as I don't have a better solution myself. But it's out there.
    While this is very true, they were overwriting genuine affiliate cookies before getting caught, and getting paid nicely for it. So from the overwritten affiliates' point of view this is much preferable. If I don't get paid for the buyer I sent at least they don't either and it isn't costing the merchant for uncookied buyers to Google them.

  13. #13
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Public Announcement - I do not engage in those practices
    I want to make a public announcement: I do not bid on anything.

    I do not engage in Pay Per Click Marketing.
    I do not engage in Adwords marketing.

    I take great care to ensure that no intellectual property is being infringed upon in any way.

    I get annoyed when clueless merchants accuse me of these practices
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
    Twitter me

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Kay
    Gee. She was so pleasant in person - LOLOL

    Another merchant did something similar on Valentine's Day. He had had enough also.

    I feel bad that your jobs are turning into babysitter services... but I thank and applaud you.
    Yeah, she seemed nice at first when I met her in the ladies room in Vegas but a few minutes later she was cursing up a storm!

  15. #15
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    Will anyone ever tell us exactly what was dropped in the toilet???????

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhia7
    I want to make a public announcement: I do not bid on anything.

    I do not engage in Pay Per Click Marketing.
    I do not engage in Adwords marketing.

    I take great care to ensure that no intellectual property is being infringed upon in any way.

    I get annoyed when clueless merchants accuse me of these practices
    I do not engage in Pay Per Click Marketing.
    I do not engage in Adwords marketing.

    Is fine.

    TM bidding is fine sometimes too. In the example above with the programs managed, it's ok for one merchant she manages, not ok for the other two.

    And good you followed thru on those that violated your terms.

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Kay
    Will anyone ever tell us exactly what was dropped in the toilet???????
    Remember that candy bar we gave you?

  18. #18
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust
    I do not engage in Pay Per Click Marketing.
    I do not engage in Adwords marketing.

    Is fine.

    TM bidding is fine sometimes too. In the example above with the programs managed, it's ok for one merchant she manages, not ok for the other two.

    And good you followed thru on those that violated your terms.
    Since you quote me, I don't do any of that at all.

    I stay away from any practice that might infringe upon trademarked trade names.

    I personally don't do the ppc stuff: but it's fine for those who do as long as they are aligned with the merchant's TOS.

    From time to time I get angry notices from merchants who can't place into groups/sections which of their affiliates practice ppc/bidding/whatever and those who don't -- I get tired of false accusations
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
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  19. #19
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    i am against a "no warning way", i am human i make mistakes, if i do make a mistake.. i would like a "first correction warning"... a second one maybe yes..third one...no

    but having a no tolerance "ability/status"...well i believe its not... more or less "nice"...

    thats my position and what i stand up for... as an affiliate...

    i dont want to get involved in a discussion of "rules were made for people or people were made for rules"? (to paraphraze a well known "philosophical issue")

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2busy
    While this is very true, they were overwriting genuine affiliate cookies before getting caught, and getting paid nicely for it. So from the overwritten affiliates' point of view this is much preferable. If I don't get paid for the buyer I sent at least they don't either and it isn't costing the merchant for uncookied buyers to Google them.
    With Google Adsense, if someone gets caught violating their TOS, they not only get kicked out of the program, but they do NOT get paid the outstanding balance in their account. I'd suppose that's by assuming those were "earned" by breaking the rules.

    Soo.. if someone gets caught bidding on TM and gets just that sale reversed, why should they care if they lose $1 and still get paid the other $99? They're still ahead and can just move along to the next one or try to weasel in with another identity.

    It *could* be put into TOS that when caught TM bidding against TOS, outstanding balance won't be paid, assuming they were probably done the same way and over-wrote legit cookies. That doesn't help ones who got cheated out of commission already, but if the outstanding earnings by violaters get all reversed it might help prevent it from being done in future.

    KGP, someone who makes an "innocent" mistake can write back and make their case if caught, but it looks like innocent mistakes are the exception rather than the rule. People need to read terms first and if they don't, they need to take responsibility.

  21. #21
    Best New ABW Member 2007 sfcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhia7
    Since you quote me, I don't do any of that at all.

    I stay away from any practice that might infringe upon trademarked trade names.

    I personally don't do the ppc stuff: but it's fine for those who do as long as they are aligned with the merchant's TOS.

    From time to time I get angry notices from merchants who can't place into groups/sections which of their affiliates practice ppc/bidding/whatever and those who don't -- I get tired of false accusations
    I think everyone gets those as notices as an affiliate, Rhia7. It is part of the biz. It doesn't mean you are part of the problem. Sometimes the notices are extremely generic and targeted at all affiliates for the program.

    I think it is silly to come out with a public notice that you don't do those things. It is assumed you don't unless proven otherwise. Kinda like the drunk driving commercials on TV. I hope you don't go writing to the TV station saying "but, I don't drink and drive." No proclamation necessary.

    -sfcom


  22. #22
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    You tell them, Rolet!

    Good to see someone actually doing something about bad players instead of pussy footing around the issue.

    Yeah, she's a sweetheart and seems like an easy target but piss her off and watch out!

    I nominate Rolet for the Italian of the week award.
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
    Loving Everyone's Child Creates Magic


  23. #23
    Outsourced Program Manager Jorge - SHOPiMAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolet
    You, who insist on practicing trademark bidding for any of my merchants where it is CLEARLY stated that we do NOT allow it, will receive no warning, I am done with this
    Ok Rolet let them have it. LOl Ok, now vent calm down, yes frustrating for us OPMs that do allow for some and not for other merchant clients.

    Like just mentioned here sometimes it's ok to let them and all based on our merchant clients wishes and sometimes even our own suggestions but don't decline them, just look through your merchant TOS, update it, send the email to all and send the one email with the notice direct to affiliate. Like KGP and others say, there could be the case where an affiliate has setup so many ppc ads, not reading abw, not getting their network emails and so on that they may not know and if you hit decline your customers now get that link click-though error.

  24. #24
    Best New ABW Member 2007 sfcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KGP
    i am against a "no warning way", i am human i make mistakes, if i do make a mistake.. i would like a "first correction warning"... a second one maybe yes..third one...no ...
    I would agree with KGP here on one strike and a warning. But, that is it. No more warnings after that. Mistakes happen and it is hard to remember sometimes for those running many campaigns in different interfaces and for many different merchants.

    If you caught me making a mistake like that as an aff, I would be putting a nice huge sticky note on the corner of my monitor so I didn't make the mistake again. Kind of like when you get shocked by an electric fence. All it takes is that one time and you become a lot more aware of your surroundings.

    Then again, I don't think you are talking here of the ones who are having honest mistakes. Instead, these are affiliates who use this as part of their day to day strategy. I think in their case they should be dropped immediately when you have heard they have previously done this type of activity and you catch them doing it with your program. And, just for good measure, you should put them in the unethical affiliates section on the board, so other managers, network reps, and affiliates can see these actions don't remain nameless.

    -sfcom
    Last edited by sfcom; March 6th, 2008 at 09:26 PM.


  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    If you are going to do ppc it is up to you to know what each merchant allows. And unless there was a recent change in policy, if the policy has always been no bidding then I agree, no warnings.

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