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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    I received this lovely note from bodyjewelry.com:
    quote:
    From: Bodyjewelry.com
    Subject: Stolen Credit Cards
    Date: 2002-09-06 07:44:49.0

    Message
    I am very concerned about the Refeeral sales your appearal mall site has meen sending me, for the entire mont of august 2002, all transactions were placed with stolen credit cards, If this continues, I will have to terminate your account with us and report the activity to commission junction, could you please check into this. Thank you





    To which I replied:
    quote:
    All our traffic is primarily search engine generated, and for your site it is all free search engine traffic. I am appalled to hear that all transactions were placed with stolen cards. I'll gladly remove all pages marketing your site, if you prefer. It's not one of my larger earners, and I have nothing to do with who finds my pages and clicks through to buy body jewelry.

    Thank you for alerting us to this problem.



    I've removed the pages that were driving traffic to bodyjewlery.com. I'm tempted to replace them with Overstock, who does have a small stock of bodyjewelry, but if the traffic I'm getting is useless, it won't help anyone.

    Nice of them to alert me that my pages are being frequented by credit card theives. I don't mind removing such offensive material from the internet and thus removing one more stumbling block for folks overcome by the temptation to buy body jewelry on stolen credit.

    But threatening to report me to cj for activity that is beyond my control is utterly and completely ridiculous, rude, counter-productive, and foolish. Why don't they have better credit card fraud protection on their shopping cart? Do they not understand that jewelry is always going to be a more high risk category to sell in terms of fraud since it can be resold quickly and easily by the thief? Do they really think that their affiliate program is going to survive by threatening affiliates with reporting to cj on an issue that is not related to the affiliate?

    I do hope they at least appreciate the two minutes it took me to load the FTP client, login and delete the two pages promoting their products.

    Anyone else threatened by bodyjewelry.com lately? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

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    42. Yup, the answer to life, the universe, and everything.

  2. #2
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    Side comment: if you really quoted their email verbatim, anyone with such a poor command of the English language has absolutely no place in customer service... disgraceful!

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    It is verbatim, but I try to realize that English is not everyone's first language or even a decent second.

    Manners and thought process, on the other hand, should be business-like regardless of grammar and spelling.

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    42. Yup, the answer to life, the universe, and everything.

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    Unless you were promoting the use of stolen credit cards on your site somewhere, this merchant has no business sending you an email like this.

    This is a risk they take and it is their job to screen these credit cards. It is not your job to screen the customers. None of us have any control over that.

    Ron
    7 Days A Week Marketing

    "Keep your hands out of my cookie jar!"

  5. #5
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    wow. the professionalism of some people involved in this industry is truly mind-boggling.

  6. #6
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    How very RUDE, of all the nerve!!!

    For them to even suggest that they were going to report you to CJ is just mind boggeling. It is most certainly not your fault the purchases were made with bad credit cards.

    They owe you an apology!!

    Vicki [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    she was tired of being poor, and she wasn't into selling door to door.... CSN

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    I agree! They owe you an apology and I would also bring the email to CJ or Todds attention. To me it is nothing but a merchant trying to be intimidating to an affiliate. What a bunch of BS. Looks like I have to try and find another replacement for them. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

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  8. #8
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    What an idiot. As if you have control over the visitors you get from the search engines and then threatening to report you for things out of your control?
    I'd forward the email to CJ as well, and write this err "gentleman" a nice long scathing letter.

    Some of the world's greatest feats were accomplished by people not smart enough to know they were impossible..

  9. #9
    Outsourced Program Manager Chris -  AMWSO's Avatar
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    Hi All

    Selling high end jewelry is equally filled with daily attempts by people to buy products using stolen and maxed our cards.

    I'd say maybe 10%-15% each day, sounds high, but as was mentioned above, jewelry is easy to offload once the thief gets it and if they can slip an order by a high end store for $20k then they are done for a month or two.

    As well as doing the credit card checks we also call all high ticket orders to check they are who they say they are and thay details match.

    Early on we got stung a couple of times but when you see a diamond vanish into the darkness you soon wise up [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    As to the mail, utter ignorance, just shows the merchant knows little about the Internet and less about how Affiliate Partners work.

    Cheers

    Chris

  10. #10
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    Just a thought, but I'm suspicious of this.

    I wonder if they know you hang out here? Perhaps they felt a bit skint and decided to keep all your commissions, then someone said 'oh no not her she'll tell all the other affiliates quick lets cover ourselves'.

    Because, lets face it, that message was sent by a very careless person who thinks they can do what they like.


    Either way, they are history. Imagine one of our customers being sent an email of that standard! Looks like theres a gap in the market there Chris!



    I

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    They'll know I hang out here now. I'm sending them a link to the thread, so they can read up a bit on what affiliate marketers think of such moves. Frankly, Ici, you may have hit the nail on the old "American Blind" head (ahem).

    @Chris, I'm well aware of the fraud problems. I have another line I market more successfully (okay, I love their stuff, it probably comes across somehow in my ad copy), and even there I/we get plenty of fraud attempts, and my reversals run high.

    Another jewelry merchant always has the decency to email me on every reversal or lay away to explain what's going on.

    I don't run a front for credit card fraud, nor do I cater to scammers. Especially in the case of a small comission item, I only drive free targetted traffic to the merchant. While it might be interesting to see correlations between the purchases, IP addresses, times, etc..., I have no control, no effect, nor any connection to those who made the purchases.

    Okay, Chris, let me know when that body jewelry program is up and running. I have a merchant to replace.

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    42. Yup, the answer to life, the universe, and everything.

  12. #12
    Outsourced Program Manager Chris -  AMWSO's Avatar
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    Working on it [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador erninator's Avatar
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    quote:
    They'll know I hang out here now. I'm sending them a link to the thread, so they can read up a bit on what affiliate marketers think of such moves.


    I just dropped 'em from my site. These lame merchants will begin to realize the power of 5000+ affiliates.

    Ernie

    It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

  14. #14
    Affiliate Manager Lionstail's Avatar
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    I'm sorry webmistress, but I have to agree with BodyJewelry on this one.

    I had a look at your site, and this section particularly caught my eye:

    quote:
    Have a stolen credit card? Into body piercing? Check out bodyjewelry.com.


    I'm sorry, but actions like yours have no place in the legitimate affiliate world.

  15. #15
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Webmistress, that sounds like a crook trick (on their part) to me!

    They sound to me like they knew that they were going to reverse 100% and figured you would b*tch to CJ Fraud about it.

    So they quick started pointing the finger at you to try to head off the legitimate complaints that would come when that ridiculous bunch of reversals came in!

    I never promoted that before but if I do it certainly won't be through them. Not only does their attitude suck, but even in high-risk industries, when any place says ALL transactions from a certain site are going to be reversed, it screams "the merchant is the crook"!

    There is no knowledge that is not power.~~Ralph Waldo Emerson

  16. #16
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    Posted by Organic:

    quote:
    I had a look at your site, and this section particularly caught my eye:


    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Have a stolen credit card? Into body piercing? Check out bodyjewelry.com.


    C'mon, Organic; this is obviously her slap back at them.

    Personally, if any merchant ever screwed me out of any substantial ching-ching, I would go so far as to register a domain name "merchant-X-sucks" or such, for their potential customers to stumble upon when searching for information about "merchant-X".

    AS SEEN ON SE!!!

  17. #17
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    Webmistress, you should definitely report this to CJ. IMHO the reversals as well as their threats to abuse the CJ system by reporting you for their own lack of diligence constitute fraud on the merchant's part.

    {

    "Laziness, Impatience, Hubris. Pick any three" ~ YAPC 19100

  18. #18
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Well, that would certainly make ME fighting mad. Complete idiots.

    The gall of some program managers is truly amazing.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    Organic,

    I agree with Deelz. Webmistress would of put that up after the email. I kind of like it, rolflmao. Ummm, I don't think its a good idea but I still like it. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

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  20. #20
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    People - I think Organic was just joking.

    {

    "Laziness, Impatience, Hubris. Pick any three" ~ YAPC 19100

  21. #21
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    Yeah, I think eaglefire is right... I'm guessing Organic doesn't even know where webmistress' site is. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    -------
    Dawn is nature's way of telling you to go to bed.

  22. #22
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    LOL "Have a stolen credit card? Into body piercing? Check out bodyjewelry.com"

    She could have gone one further and said: Into USED body piercing items? Check out bodyjewelry.com or no-tell-motel.com

    WebMaster Mike

  23. #23
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    I suggest you send this person one of those pocket-sized dictionaries. Apparently, they need a whole lot of help! But some of the things I have read, that just doesn't make any sense at all. What about professionalism? What is this world coming to? To blame you for something that is totally out of your control just baffles me. I thought we were supposed to be helping each other here! It is, apparent after all, they came through your site. Which, if you had not been there, they might not have the "BOGUS" sale, but they had a sale which was generated through your site. In essence what I am trying to say is this. If it had been a legitimate sale, you wouldn't probably even have gotten a thank you. Do they ever say thank you for helping me with this sale? And I'm not talking commissions, I'm talking just plain old proper manners?! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    Mike, lmao! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    CABH, Yup! I agree!

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  25. #25
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    I tend to agree with Leader and CABH,

    Reading these posts I am once again filled with the gut feeling that we need to push for a unionization of sorts. For instance, IF we had already formed some sort of union prior to this "email incident" then perhaps the email in question would have never even happened.

    The merchant would have been much too aprehensive if they would have known that the webmaster/publisher/affilliate was a member of the ABW Union Local # 513.

    We are already sticking together through this forum so I would think that 5,000 fairly intelligent webmasters, especially the ones that I have seen posting here over the last year or so, would have the balls as well as the intellect be able to form a union strong enough to at LEAST give a meaningful message to the merchants stating our Union, our desire for fairness and equinimity and a desire to work as partners toward the same goal of cashing in on the availability of incomes that are possible through relationships that have been established through various marketing schemes.

    Personally I think that CPA programs have done the most to bring merchants into believing that affiliates are actually hard working individuals who are not out to rob the merchants of anything. Once you have established a good CPA model with your merchant you are truly in a "partnership". .. which is what I believe we are all looking for. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

    If we don't get some kool rules ourselves...... pronto........ then we'll just be bogus too.. ~Jeff Spicoli~

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