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  1. #1
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    Message from Pepperjam Network CEO Kris Jones
    RE: From Haiko's recent thread about Pepperjam - "please don't give me another left handed answer."

    Haiko,

    You've belittled me one too many times and continue to approach this thread and me personally in a hostile manner.

    I've lost complete respect for you with how you've used this thread as a wild goose hunt against Pepperjam and therefore I'm done here.

    If anyone would like to contact me personally with questions please reach me at my personal e-mail address - kris@pepperjamsearch.com

    I wish all ABW members the absolute best and encourage you to contact me personally with any questions you may have.

    I also encourage any ABW members that may be in the Scranton / Wilkes Barre, PA area to visit Pepperjam - you have an open invitation. We'd be happy to host you, introduce you to the Pepperjam Team, and spend time with you answering questions and sharing with you the Pepperjam story.

    I honestly believe there are hundreds if not thousands of very smart and talented affiliate marketers on this board and my resentment to Haiko and a few other ill intentioned ABW members does not represent my feeling to the vast majority of ABW members.

    As for Haiko de Poel, Jr. - I find him unprofessional and ill intentioned and therefore I am done on ABW.

    Thanks for your time.

    Kris

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by pepperjam
    As for Haiko de Poel, Jr. - I find him unprofessional and ill intentioned and therefore I am done on ABW.
    You have been asked many questions that have been asked of other networks and merchants on this board. Haiko is speaking out with questions that the answers are important to the affiliates, AND merchants that come here to find out information about networks and affiliate programs. You consistently spin answers or dodge the questions that are not to your liking. Your opinions of each other are unimportant, what is important is how you answer the questions posed. So far you are not looking good.

    Transparency within your network appears to be a one way street, and how you manage publishers that spam, steal or cheat to earn their commissions is central to your network's success or lack of success.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  3. #3
    Full Member Code Monkey's Avatar
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    Haiko has a point with many of his questions..

    Unfortunately, his comments such as 'left handed answer' do indeed have an unprofessional tone.

    If Haiko doesn't look favorably on a particular answer, he should take that into account when forming his own opinions. Prefacing future questions with silly comments such as the one noted above does nothing to further the conversation.

    If Haiko wants to put the affiliate community ahead of his own personal feelings then he should apologize and ask that Kris stick around to answer future questions.

  4. #4
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    CodeMonkey, I disagree. Asking someone for a straight answer when all you get is spin or "left handed" *is* appropriate.

    Definitions of "professional" may need revisiting. Many "professional" posts and answers are nothing but horsehockey. Me, I'm getting tired of the horsehockey, the spins and the partial answers. From *any* network or merchant, whether they *want* to be at ABW not.

    And guess what, if Kris chooses not to come back, it doesn't mean conversations about their network will just "go away". They are an affiliate marketing network and this is an affiliate marketing forum, thus they will be discussed. Choosing to ignore those discussions will be further "black marks" for them, in the eyes of the people that find these threads looking for information or answers to their own questions.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  5. #5
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pepperjam
    You've belittled me one too many times and continue to approach this thread and me personally in a hostile manner.
    Mr. Jones, there is nothing hostile about asking for a real answer, that is, I guess, if your looking to give a REAL answer! The problem is that your claims of transparency are apparently just that ... claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by pepperjam
    I've lost complete respect for you with how you've used this thread as a wild goose hunt against Pepperjam and therefore I'm done here.
    WILD GOOSE HUNT? Yesterday it was fishing and today it's Geese huh? Because the issues raised and asked aren't your scripted nor controlled conversations you call it a Goose chase. Come on, your an INC 5000 CEO ? Act like one, either answer the question or GTFO

    As for the 'respect', yes much has been much lost, I'm sure. I've done my job and that's to stand up to the abundance of smoke and mirrors that all proclaim transparancy yet things aren't as transparent as originally presented, now are they? Well, actually yeah you are very transparent.

    Quote Originally Posted by pepperjam
    I honestly believe there are hundreds if not thousands of very smart and talented affiliate marketers on this board and my resentment to Haiko and a few other ill intentioned ABW members does not represent my feeling to the vast majority of ABW members.
    FYI - "The hundreds if not thousands" are on this board because we are real and a no BS zone, you leaving TWICE, screams volumes to them - remember that!

    Quote Originally Posted by pepperjam
    As for Haiko de Poel, Jr. - I find him unprofessional and ill intentioned and therefore I am done on ABW.
    As for you Kris, I find you pompous, elusive and inconsistent and I'll prefer to be real, honest and 'unprofessional' any day.

    I guess I should added the traditional join now links that we all see with the pepperjam reviews or posts, ok ... Join Now or Join Now or Join Now
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  6. #6
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Code Monkey
    Haiko has a point with many of his questions..
    Yes I do, it would have been nice to actually get an answer to them instead of pretexts and infinatile exuses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Code Monkey
    Unfortunately, his comments such as 'left handed answer' do indeed have an unprofessional tone.
    More unprofessional than the the multidude of actual left handed answers? I think not. Are we being graced by KJ's presence and that should be good enough? Drink the cool aid and join now, the only place that has anything bad about PJN on the net is ABW and that's cause Haiko has some personal issue? Come on, he's not given a real answer to the points I posted, don't you want real answers? I know I and others do!

    Quote Originally Posted by Code Monkey
    If Haiko wants to put the affiliate community ahead of his own personal feelings then he should apologize and ask that Kris stick around to answer future questions.
    My personal feelings? I couldn't give a rats @ss about Kris / PJN ... I care about the truth and answers to real questions, he hasn't answered them, he's instead claimed inequities and run off TWICE. He gets no appology from me, he came here and said he'd answer questions ... he didn't!
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
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    I find no fault with the way Haiko, or any of the other members, treated PJN in recent weeks. Kris knew upfront that there would be tough questions from a tough audience, and rather than give clear, transparent, full answers, he danced around topics and never really gave us what we were asking for.

    No apology should be offered. If Kris wants to stick around, that's up to him. He knows the score - he knew from the beginning.
    Daniel M. Clark
    Tech Manager
    Greg Hoffman Consulting

  8. #8
    Best New ABW Member 2007 sfcom's Avatar
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    I think that one of the main issues here is:

    PJN Paid forum at ABW = quit and ran
    PJN Unpaid forum at ABW = quit and ran

    While I do appreciate the communication as compared to CJ @ ABW, I don't appreciate the fact that whenever PJN is presented with tough questions they decide it's time to say "goodbye." Brian w/ SAS has definitely taken some tough ones over the years and he stuck with ABW. That is THE way you grow a small network. Sure, there are a few other AM sites you can try, but good luck reaching the same quality of affiliates as those here at ABW.

    So, what does this say to me? If I someday sign up with PJN and someday have a huge problem with my account, that employees there are taught from the top down that it is OK to run and avoid me. That is not a scenario that I look forward to.

    -sfcom


  9. #9
    Newbie Rolet's Avatar
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    For me it comes down to transparency, when Kris repeatedly won't answer questions being posed to him, then I have to wonder why?

    As for Code Monkey's response, Haiko has had the best interest of affiliates in mind when he has been dealing with PJN responses. He has posed question after question and has repeatedly been led in a circle. I have found nothing unprofessional with his responses or his postings. Haiko is a level headed sharp business man, PJN has continued to waste his time and everyone else's by not being transparent with their answers.

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    A question keeps popping in my mind about the transparency rating that PepperJam is touting.
    The way I understand it, this rating system is an invention of PepperJam and is not based on an industry standard, is that correct? As such, the rating system is subject to manipulation and would be suspect at best.
    The way PepperJam keeps hiding behind the transparency rating, to me, makes that transparency very cloudy indeed.



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  11. #11

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    Alright, perhaps I am not the only completely clueless person here, but what in the heck is "transparency" (as it applies here I know what the definition means)?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by nakedgamer
    Alright, perhaps I am not the only completely clueless person here, but what in the heck is "transparency" (as it applies here I know what the definition means)?
    I think it goes something like affiliates with Pepperjam Network are expected to be 100% transparent with everyone, yet no one else is....

    Someone else please elaborate as I'm interested in knowing this as well.

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    PepperJam invented a transparency rating system based on certain criteria{?}. The way I understand it is that as a member affiliate your "profile" (with lack of a better term) is available to merchants when deciding whether to accept your application to become their affiliate. The transparency rating displays a graphic containing green dots that somehow describe how transparent you are. I'm certain I don't have the whole picture so perhaps someone else can elaborate...



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  14. #14
    Full Member Amy_S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loxly
    And guess what, if Kris chooses not to come back, it doesn't mean conversations about their network will just "go away". They are an affiliate marketing network and this is an affiliate marketing forum, thus they will be discussed.


    Hi Kris. I don't think we've "met" yet. But, it puzzles me that you wouldn't want to hang around and remain part of the conversation here. I'm contemplating helping a friend build a site and there is a PJ merchant that looks like a potentially great fit for the site we have in mind. I've spent some time reading threads here and elsewhere, and I still really don't have a clear picture of what I'd be getting into. I'm not sure what to make of all this.

  15. #15
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Well ... if the CEO actually answered the question ... [sorry for the unprofessionalism] ... here's the thread about transparency in the pepperjam network
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  16. #16
    Antisocial Media Expert ProWebAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    Well ... if the CEO actually answered the question ... [sorry for the unprofessionalism] ... here's the thread about transparency in the pepperjam network
    Oh yes now I remember thanks for posting that. Since my question in that thread wasn't answered I think it's safe to assume that there isn't anyway to opt out of having all of your personal affiliate information available to every merchant and OPM on pepperjam network.

    So that's transparency. If you are an affiliate, all of your information is public information and there is no way to opt out as affiliates can't be trusted but all merchants and OPM's can.

  17. #17
    Full Member Amy_S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProWebAddict
    I think it goes something like affiliates with Pepperjam Network are expected to be 100% transparent with everyone, yet no one else is....

    Someone else please elaborate as I'm interested in knowing this as well.
    From my limited understanding of the situation, this is how it looks to me too.

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador Greg Rice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Code Monkey
    Haiko has a point with many of his questions..

    Unfortunately, his comments such as 'left handed answer' do indeed have an unprofessional tone.

    If Haiko doesn't look favorably on a particular answer, he should take that into account when forming his own opinions. Prefacing future questions with silly comments such as the one noted above does nothing to further the conversation.

    If Haiko wants to put the affiliate community ahead of his own personal feelings then he should apologize and ask that Kris stick around to answer future questions.
    Apparently you have yet to learn what Haiko is all about. It's not about how "favorably" Haiko looks at the answer, it's about whether or not the question was actually answered. I didn't post much about these questions but read most of them and, quite frankly, have been frustrated trying to find the answers to some questions. Re-reading doesn't help but just generates more frustration. I suspect many here feel the same.
    Greg Rice Affiliate Program Management
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  19. #19
    Affiliate Network Rep Danny K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Code Monkey
    Haiko has a point with many of his questions..

    Unfortunately, his comments such as 'left handed answer' do indeed have an unprofessional tone.

    ... Prefacing future questions with silly comments such as the one noted above does nothing to further the conversation.

    If Haiko ...... he should apologize and ask that Kris stick around to answer future questions.
    I am left handed and could have choosen to be offended. This professionalism hooey is ridiculous. Would you have preferred a single word?

    Interesting post from Rosalind today.

    So, my main question is how any affiliate could put together a body of evidence if they did think pj had used their successful tactics. Like they wouldn't say "prove it". And once the damage was done, then what?
    Danny K. - Network Administrator, Digital River- oneNetworkDirect.com, Email: dkautt@digitalriver.com

  20. #20
    Full Member Amy_S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    Well ... if the CEO actually answered the question ... [sorry for the unprofessionalism] ... here's the thread about transparency in the pepperjam network
    Thanks for the link Haiko, I somehow missed seeing that thread.

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    Sorry to have offended this thread with the transparency issue. To me the transparency rating thingy (gizmo, calc, formula, widget, bar, mud, ??) discloses a vast amount of insight into the credibility of the network. Makes me leary of any future relationship with PepperJam.
    Last edited by Boomers; April 2nd, 2008 at 01:57 PM. Reason: Included the name "PepperJam"



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  22. #22
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    Is Shop at Home Select working with PepperJamNetwork?
    If the answer is yes, and with the screenshot I saw, it's obvious, all the former answers provided by PepperJamNetwork don't mean anything.
    Kris, any affiliate working with you should know what's your stance on parasites. CJ and LS were clear about it. What's yours?

  23. #23
    Full Member Amy_S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Rice
    I didn't post much about these questions but read most of them and, quite frankly, have been frustrated trying to find the answers to some questions. Re-reading doesn't help but just generates more frustration. I suspect many here feel the same.


    Greg- your suspicion is hereby confirmed.

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pepperjam
    therefore I am done on ABW.

    Thanks for your time.

    Kris
    Hey, according to the green dot by his username, Kris is back. I thought he was gone forever!



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  25. #25
    Full Member Amy_S's Avatar
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    OK, I have now read the transparency thread Haiko linked above.

    Quote Originally Posted by pepperjam

    Pepperjam Network discloses to advertisers affiliate information for all affiliates within our network, regardless of whether the affiliate has joined or not joined the advertiser's affiliate program.

    In other words, we don't hold back on disclosing affiliate information to our advertiser's and we strongly believe we are doing the right thing (for affiliates and advertisers) with his policy.
    I can understand why a merchant might be excited about this, but I'm having a hard time seeing how it benefits affiliates??

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