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  1. #1
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetsWarehouse.com
    I think your admiration is a bit premature, one sale does not pay the mortgage.

    It's good that it happened, good luck with the merchant.

    Two questions why did Avantlink turn you down?
    and did you follow up with them?

    On your site link why don't you list all the affiliate networks, you list small companies but not all the big ones?

    Avantlink is the first affiliate network to turn me down but I assume that they have magic fortune teller superpowers and think they are able to tell who will produce sales or not..... or perhaps they fall into the bad affiliate network category by ticking potential affiliates off and restricting merchant sales. I followed up in a public thread here at http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=103208 to show that due to a poor affiliate approval process - a potential multi-merchant should go elsewhere. Because of my rejection - I will obviously tell merchants and affiliates to stay away from them. I surely can't recommend them now... can I?

    I've generated sales from several of my affiliate networks I work with today (as well as several indie programs) so don't worry about me having one sale so far with Pepperjam (from a couple days ago)... more will come.

    I will be listing more affiliate networks at my site in the future but recently took down CJ.com's link only because they dropped their referral program (I still love CJ and appreciate the chance they gave me as we have generated a lot of business for each other over the years). That affiliate network directory site really isn't my focus to be honest - I prefer selling merchants products and domain names. I see no reason to stick up links on any of my sites unless I get paid for them. (That may change actually on one or more sites of mine).

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Hamrick
    Larry you are so full of yourself it makes me want to . AvantLink was honest with you and you cried like a baby. Please pull your accounts out of my merchants as I have no time for a whiner with a poison pen!

    I don't recall crying there Chuck - just expressing my honest opinion as well. Merchants should be doing the approval process and not networks. In the whole scheme of things - rejecting affiliates is always a bad decision (network or affiliate - except for illegal activities, porn, etc...)

    Allow affiliates to grow and don't shut down relationships - that's bad business.

    If people are allowed to express their opinions on Pepperjam than I can express my opinions on Avantlink ...... don't you think?

  3. #3
    Affiliate Manager PetsWarehouse.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wentzco
    Avantlink is the first affiliate network to turn me down I will obviously tell merchants and affiliates to stay away from them. I surely can't recommend them now... can I?
    Yes you should the name of your link demands it.

    I see no reason to stick up links on any of my sites unless I get paid for them. (That may change actually on one or more sites of mine).
    That's not cricket, a directory that only has paid listing not unpaid is miss leading.
    Bob Pets Warehouse
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetsWarehouse.com
    That's not cricket, a directory that only has paid listing not unpaid is miss leading.
    Tell Yahoo and Best of the Web that.

  5. #5
    Best New ABW Member 2007 sfcom's Avatar
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    I am (surprisingly) in agreement with everything Bob just said in post #18. Directories are supposed to list all items relevant to the title of the directory. I don't care if company x or y doesn't have a referral program. People look at directories as reference materials and they should include all data available to them, not just the data the site owner might profit from.

    Now, onto the PJN is great --- Avantlink doesn't like me deal... It seems like you have been in the biz for a while. You should know better than to act the way you are. So, what if Avantlink does get that merchant you need to make $1000 or $2000 more a month as an exclusive merchant? Now you have put yourself in a bad position due to you publicly blasting them about issues. These issues probably could have been taken care of in a positive way.

    Do you think they will want to work with you in the future? Yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion. But some opinions are better left to a phone call, PM or email instead of posting them in a public forum. Now your chances of ever working with Avantlink are probably down the drain. Wasn't what you wanted to accomplish just the other day when you filled out the app, right?

    -sfcom


  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfcom
    Yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion. But some opinions are better left to a phone call, PM or email instead of posting them in a public forum. -sfcom
    This is what I meant by my comment "... and leave my direct merchant/network dealings at the door."

    I realize any affiliate issue is open for discussion (merchants, networks, etc), and while we all have different reasons for being here, I agree with sfcom in his assessment.

  7. #7
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    I have no regrets upon expressing my opinions publicly - It was important for the potential multi-merchant to see the flawed approval system and that Avantlink would not be a good decision for them. That person also felt the approval process should be handled by the merchants and not networks. Avantlink rejected me - I didn't reject them. I honestly feel that affiliate networks who reject affiliates (except for illegal activities, porn, etc.) are not good affiliate networks and cost merchants sales as well as generating bad PR. If I see a merchant that I really would want to work that is exclusively at Avantlink - I will contact the merchant directly, tell them I was rejected by Avantlink and try to get them to open up an affiliate program elsewhere that is more affiliate friendly - that makes sense to me.

    I may re-add CJ to my network list page (just cause I like them but they should have continued with their referral program). I'd rather remain a paid for referral directory though I suppose recipocal links could be a possibility. As I said - that site really isn't my main focus.

  8. #8
    Affiliate Manager PetsWarehouse.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wentzco
    As I said - that site really isn't my main focus.
    Then perhaps you should remove it from all your posts
    Bob Pets Warehouse
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  9. #9
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    If an affiliate network is allowing parasites - that opinion is brought up publicly here.

    If an affiliate network's transparency something-or-another is in question - that opinion is brought up publicly here.

    If an affiliate network is not affiliate friendly due to their approval process - that opinion also can be brought out publicly here. I don't want any merchants to work with an affiliate network that rejected me and will express that opinion publicly. I will tell merchants to go elsewhere. I want to work with merchants - plain and simple - and don't desire networks who hinder that process.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetsWarehouse.com
    Then perhaps you should remove it from all your posts
    perhaps not

  11. #11
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Whoa. People can like and dislike any networks they want and people are free to agree/disagree. But you want him out of your programs because he likes one network you don't and because he was upset with not being let in one?
    Larry you say you came here to praise Pepperjamnetwork but in your opening comments you defame AvantLink. Your sole purpose was to put down AvantLink. Yes, you are entitled to your opinions but you push the limit.

    I retract my statement "Please pull your accounts out of my merchants". By all means keep them there, lets see what you can do? Looking forward to working closely with you.

  12. #12
    Affiliate Manager PetsWarehouse.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wentzco
    If an affiliate network is not affiliate friendly due to their approval process - that opinion also can be brought out publicly here. I don't want any merchants to work with an affiliate network that rejected me and will express that opinion publicly. I will tell merchants to go elsewhere. I want to work with merchants - plain and simple - and don't desire networks who hinder that process.
    If you were on the merchant or AM computer looking at the websites applying to your program everyday, you would welcome their approval process.

    In fact you would want networks to reject a lot more of their applications.

    It's the old quality vs quantity thing.

    But just because your site didn't meet the standards of AV it appears your trashing a good network based on revenge.

    I would bet Pj has their system on auto approve just to build their numbers so Kris can tell prospective merchants I have xxxx affiliates.

    On the other hand your recommendation of Pj appears to be a paid plug for little Kris. (not saying it was)

    But to start a thread "Thank you....
    Reading all the posts that have been buzzing around here, your post has no credibility.
    Bob Pets Warehouse
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Hamrick
    Larry you say you came here to praise Pepperjamnetwork but in your opening comments you defame AvantLink. Your sole purpose was to put down AvantLink. Yes, you are entitled to your opinions but you push the limit.

    My purpose was to raise a point - Pepperjam gave me a chance & Avantlink did not. Publicly rejecting Avantlink will be in my vocabulary until they change their methods.

    When I post in Avantlink's forum to tell merchants to stay away because of poor affiliate approval processes - I will be absolutely honest and merchants can make their own decision if I am defaming them or not. They can decide if the affiliate approval process is keeping away potential good affiliates away from them as well as obvious future sales. I have that right even though there may be revenge as some motivation (I won't lie). I would prefer if Avantlink changes their affiliate approval methods and let merchants make the decision - I will not be vocal because I would have no point to argue.

    Yes - I intend on pushing the limit and point out an affiliate networks failure to do things right. Merchants need to stay away from non-affiliate friendly networks and deserve to hear why their approval methods are causing lost potential sales.

    ------------------------------------
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showpost.p...8&postcount=31 - Diggz (the multi-merchant looking for an affiliate network said this) - "Ideally I think the drama highlited above would be nulled if there was simply a pre-approval that gets applicants in the door.

    Once the applicant is pre-approved, he has access to the backend, but not necessarily access to the linking tools, until the merchant can provide final approval.

    In the end, this affiliate may not be approved by the merchant he applied to, but he at least has the option to be approved by other merchants in the network.

    The network can also notify this affiliate if a new merchant launches in his industry.

    The deeper your affiliate base, the better IMO. If an affiliate begins to use questionable promotional methods, then you can work towards reprimanding and in worse case eliminating."
    -------------------------------


    That makes total sense and all affiliate networks should follow his opinion.

  14. #14
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    Pets Warehouse -

    I thank Pepperjamnetwork for giving me chance - true statement! Avantlink is not currently a good network - true statement!

  15. #15
    Best New ABW Member 2007 sfcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wentzco
    I have that right even though there may be revenge as some motivation (I won't lie)...
    This is the part that can get you in some huge trouble.

    Scenario: I go an apply for a credit card and get rejected. Apply for a different card and get approved. Because of the rejection, I post about how wrong this was and how I don't think M-card or V*** knows what they are doing. Simply put, being declined does not give me the right to slander the company who declined me. Post facts once or twice, sure. But, to actively seek out opportunities to belittle their company? Not good. I would tread very carefully if I were in your position. You have probably said too much already.

    ***I should add that I didn't understand where the anger came from from Chuck for you to drop all of his merchants. I did see the reversal of that comment, but still. There must be some history here that I don't know about.

    -sfcom


  16. #16
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    Slander? First when it's written, it's libel. Can you quote something you think is actually slanderous? And telling him to tread carefully. These methods of trying to control what people say is a little ridiculous.

  17. #17
    Best New ABW Member 2007 sfcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust
    Slander? First when it's written, it's libel. Can you quote something you think is actually slanderous? And telling him to tread carefully. These methods of trying to control what people say is a little ridiculous.
    Oh, did I just make an error? Forgive me almighty Trust. Yes, I am all about mind control. At times you are a real pain in the a$$, Donuts realized it a while back and now I am starting to see it too.

    -sfcom


  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfcom
    This is the part that can get you in some huge trouble.

    Scenario: I go an apply for a credit card and get rejected. Apply for a different card and get approved. Because of the rejection, I post about how wrong this was and how I don't think M-card or V*** knows what they are doing. Simply put, being declined does not give me the right to slander the company who declined me. Post facts once or twice, sure. But, to actively seek out opportunities to belittle their company? Not good. I would tread very carefully if I were in your position. You have probably said too much already.

    Slander .... what the hell are you talking about? "Post facts once or twice, sure" - That's better - I'm posting facts and opinions.

    I'll post the facts as often as I want and until Avantlink changes their affiliate approval methods which hinder my merchant relationships and affiliate business. I will tell merchants to stay away from Avantlink because they are shutting out potential good affiliates - just the facts!

    If Avantlink had a policy of allowing parasitic merchants/affiliates hindering other people's affiliate business - everyone would be all over them.

    If Avantlink had a policy of poor affiliate approval methods - those approved would say nothing. Those not approved would also likely not say anything. I'm the rebel pointing out the flawed system that causes merchants to lose sales.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfcom
    Oh, did I just make an error? Forgive me almighty Trust. Yes, I am all about mind control. At times you are a real pain in the a$$, Donuts realized it a while back and now I am starting to see it too.

    -sfcom
    Oh please. You're doing the same thing I've seen adware people do. Tread carefully, drop the slander and libel words to try to control people, scare them into shutting up, get out of my programs etc. And now you're dropping another member's name (which has nothing to do with this thread) as if that bolsters your argument somehow? It's pathetic. People are going to disagree sometime, heaven forbid I disagree with you, the horror. You actually accused him of slandering a company. If that's the case, I've slandered all of them at one time or another.

  20. #20
    Best New ABW Member 2007 sfcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust
    Oh please. You're doing the same thing I've seen adware people do. Tread carefully, drop the slander and libel words to try to control people. And now you're dropping another member's name (which has nothing to do with this thread) as if that bolsters your argument somehow? It's pathetic. People are going to disagree sometime, heaven forbid I disagree with you, the horror.
    Don't ever compare me to adware people. Lots of data in that head, but some common sense can sure go a long way. Please tell me how I can profit from this being as I have NO relationship with either of the networks spoken about.

    Yes, I know people can disagree sometimes, that is what I did was disagree. I just love it how you have pounced on everything I do that you aren't in agreement with here at ABW. lol. Makes me feel wanted. I am sorry. I make a mistake every once in a while. Doesn't mean you have to take your big Trust highlighter and circle it.

    -sfcom


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfcom
    I would tread very carefully if I were in your position. You have probably said too much already
    Thank you for aiding me in my new signature.

  22. #22
    Antisocial Media Expert ProWebAddict's Avatar
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    Libel- a written defamatory statement published without just cause.

    This hardly applies. People do have first amendment rights you know.

    No, I am not a lawyer but I did pick up a few things in law class.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfcom
    Don't ever compare me to adware people. Lots of data in that head, but some common sense can sure go a long way. Please tell me how I can profit from this being as I have NO relationship with either of the networks spoken about.

    Yes, I know people can disagree sometimes, that is what I did was disagree. I just love it how you have pounced on everything I do that you aren't in agreement with here at ABW. lol. Makes me feel wanted. I am sorry. I make a mistake every once in a while. Doesn't mean you have to take your big Trust highlighter and circle it.

    -sfcom
    Disagreeing is fine. It's natural, I don't expect people to agree 100% of the time. But you go over the line throwing the slander word around with people you disagree with and telling them they should tread carefully. And you don't need to get all emotional everytime we disagree. We probably agree with each other 90%+ of the time, sometimes we won't. There have been some things I've seen in this thread to try to shut somebody up, just goes overboard.

  24. #24
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    I would be pretty peeved to be denied access by a network (vs a merchant), but I can't seem to find the reason when I search previous posts.

    Why was your site not accepted by AvantLink? If there is another thread, can someone pls point me to it?

    I don't make business decisions based simply on what other people say (ie. good network, bad network), but would like to see if reasons were provided. If they were, and they were legit, I'm not too impressed by the constant bashing.

  25. #25
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