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  1. #1
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    10 Reasons to Avoid Endless.com
    1. They sent an unsolicited email saying they will be pushing me a Private offer - that I should keep my eyes open.

    I respond with Please don't put any offers in my CJ Account. I don't promote CJ. I don't promote merchants on e b a t e s. I don't promote one-occurance cookie merchants.

    2. They don't respond.

    3. Despite my request, an offer shows up in CJ. They don't listen to affiliates.

    4. I email saying I asked you NOT to put and offers in CJ - they don't respond.

    I log onto CJ and click the mail-settings box that says "I do not want any corresponce from endless shoes

    5. Few days later I get correspondence from endless saying "We pushed thru an offer did you accept it yet?" They don't honor affiliates requests, nor do they honor the CJ "no mail" button.

    6. I respond in no uncertain terms... I'm not interested.

    7. As always, No response

    8. They send another "We pushed an offer" email. I respond with "Noooooooooooooooo!!!". Again, no response.

    9. Last night, amazingly, another endless offer showed up in my CJ interface. How many times must they show that they simply don't listen to affiliates?

    I'm ticked!

    This time I accepted it. I made an endless page... but populated it with their competitors, and told my visitirs to avoid them at all costs, saying everything I just said above, then sent the AM the link, along with all my unanswered emails.

    At least I now know they DO GET my emails, because...

    10. 4 hours later, I get an "Affiliation Terminated" email.

    Four hours. LOL. Shortest partnership on record

  2. #2
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    You know, LMAO is so overused, but at times, there's just no other expression that adequately covers it.
    Following everyone else is a GREAT way to become average.

  3. #3
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    I love it. Great way to get their attention.

    -rematt
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  4. #4
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
    I decide when the pigs fly!
    Rhea's Avatar
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    I don't often hand out stars but Billy gets a five-star recommendation for this thread.

    Billy, add insult to injury. Send 'em a link to this thread.

  5. #5
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Billy - you have too much time on your hands LOL
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
    Loving Everyone's Child Creates Magic


  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador
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    So your partnership with them wasn't endless..

    (someone had too )

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Greg Rice's Avatar
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    Unreal! We need an icon here for the cluetrain.
    Greg Rice Affiliate Program Management
    www.gocmc.com info(AT)gocmc.com | 330-259-1223

    Join us! - MiNeeds.com | DiscountCandleShop/CheeseSupply | Feng Shui Plaza

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador PatrickAllmond's Avatar
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    Billy Kay - I am worshiping you right now. Pretty freakin' sweet.
    ---
    This response was masterly crafted via the fingers of Patrick Allmond who believe you should StopDoingNothing starting today.
    ---
    Focus Consulting is where I roll | Follow @patrickallmond on Twitter
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  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador Joshua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Kay
    I don't promote CJ.
    Just close your account in that case. Then you won't have any issues with merchants contacting you.

  10. #10
    http and a telephoto
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua
    Just close your account in that case. Then you won't have any issues with merchants contacting you.
    Great solution, that fixes all the wrong things that happen right? NOT.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  11. #11
    Antisocial Media Expert ProWebAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua
    Just close your account in that case. Then you won't have any issues with merchants contacting you.
    Why do you come off as so "anti-affiliate" in your posts? You don't have to agree with what everyone says if that's not how you feel but it seems like a lot of your recent posts are Pro-Bad Practices.

    You can be pro-merchant/pro-network/pro-ebates if you want, that's fine. But what's up with the "shut up affiliate" attitude?

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador Joshua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProWebAddict
    Why do you come off as so "anti-affiliate" in your posts? You don't have to agree with what everyone says if that's not how you feel but it seems like a lot of your recent posts are Pro-Bad Practices.

    You can be pro-merchant/pro-network/pro-ebates if you want, that's fine. But what's up with the "shut up affiliate" attitude?
    I'm not anti-affiliate - I'm an affiliate myself. I just really don't get the point of complaining when there's an obvious solution at hand. My response was more based on the blatant unprofessionalism like quoted below:
    This time I accepted it. I made an endless page... but populated it with their competitors, and told my visitirs to avoid them at all costs, saying everything I just said above, then sent the AM the link, along with all my unanswered emails.
    How is that a mature way to deal with things?

    Odds are that Endless.com is using some automated processes to push offers and follow up, before actually getting around to reading emails. An AM would be absolutely stupid to keep pushing offers if they read a response that said an affiliate wasn't interested, as it's just more work for them.

    My point still stands though - If the original poster refuses to work with CJ merchants, then why bother maintaining an account?

  13. #13
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    If the original poster refuses to work with CJ merchants, then why bother maintaining an account?

    I know the original poster pretty well

    I meant I NO LONGER promote NEW CJ merchants. I've got bunches that are grandfathered in prior to CJ threatening me

    And you missed the whole point of the post. It was about an UNRESPONSIVE AM.

    You can side with him for being automated or whatever you said, that's your right. I've been doing this over 10 years, and have found that the best make to make $$$ in this business if is there's a

    live

    human

    responsive

    AM on the other side. In this case, there's not.

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador
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    I fully agree with Joshua's comments here and on his other posts that others bash him on and I'm an affiliate. I've never been a merchant.

    While the information gleaned here about how endless.com runs their program may be good to know, the unprofessional way of obtaining it trumps that.

    Without naming names, there are members here who are highly respected among the bashers who feel the same way as Joshua and I do but they choose to stay out of discussions like this because it's a no win.

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador Joshua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Kay
    I meant I NO LONGER promote NEW CJ merchants. I've got bunches that are grandfathered in prior to CJ threatening me

    And you missed the whole point of the post. It was about an UNRESPONSIVE AM.
    That explains it (the first part). As for the second part, I completely get the point. Unfortunately, unresponsiveness from AMs is a huge problem in the industry, and can be even worse once in an affiliate program. There's a reason why I request phone numbers of AMs from all programs that I have any volume on .

  16. #16
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    I didn't know this thread would get technical and I'd love to post the link to my site, but I won't

    and I'd love to copy the emails, but CJ has made it clear I can't even paraphrase an email

    but my first email was

    Subject Pending Offer
    Date 28-Mar-2008
    Message Body

    and the 2nd offer was put in my interface last night - April 16.

    That's 3 weeks. More then enough time for the AM to at least acknowledge receiving any of them - and even better - to respond.

    My feeling is if a merchant isn't even their while they're courting you, they sure as hec won't be there when you actually need them.

    As for my "unprofessional" webpage for endless.

    The same way I tell ABWers both my good and bad experiences

    I do the same for my site visitors.

    If I don't tell them why a shoe merchant isn't on my shoe site, to me, that's lieing by omission

    And... it worked!!!

    I got an unresponsive AM to respond (and hopefully scratch his head)... and I got my peers to discuss the topic in a forum.

  17. #17
    Affiliate Manager GlobalGolf-Amanda's Avatar
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    So, the question I'm asking myself, Billy Kay, is.... is that competitor-promotion page still active on your site?
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
    Amanda Moralis
    GlobalGolf.com | GolfShoesOnly.com | TaylorMadeGolfPreOwned.com
    [URL=https://signup.cj.com/member/brandedPublisherSignUp.do?air_refmerchantid=2132449]Join our affiliate program![/URL] | [URL=http://globalgolfaff.blogspot.com/]GlobalGolf & GSO Affiliate Blog[/URL] | [URL=http://feeds.feedburner.com/ggaffs/]Coupon Feed[/URL]

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
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    I have no problem with the way this was handled. BK gave the AM plenty of chances to respond in a professional way, and it was only until he took an extreme action that he got any response to the problem.

    Read the entire story before jumping to "BK did this unprofessionally".
    Daniel M. Clark
    Tech Manager
    Greg Hoffman Consulting

  19. #19
    Prince of Content Vinny O'Hare's Avatar
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    WTG Billy I would have responded in a similiar way but I would have made 10,000 or 20,000 pages.
    Vinny O'Hare - OPM - Contact Info email: vinny at teamloxly.com ~ 702-582-6742 Twitter

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador Greg Rice's Avatar
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    I don't see any problem with how Billy Kay handled this. A merchant repeatedly sending out offers and doesn't bother to check email for replies needs this kind of slap to wake them up. Besides, it's friggin funny. People here can learn where the clue train stops and where it keeps going and are entertained by Billy's descriptive account.
    Greg Rice Affiliate Program Management
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  21. #21
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    I don't know guys. Maybe these folks saying Billy crossed the line here are just onto something that most don't see. Personally, despite his warm personality and magnetic smile, I don't trust the guy!!. I've interacted with him at various events, had some (what I thought were) good conversations with him. Laughed at his comments to humor him, you know, the typical tactics we all use at events.

    I wasn't going to say anything about it but his thread here leaves me no choice. I too must call his professionalism into question after what I witnessed in AZ last Sept. Consider yourself outed BK!!

    Ellen and I saw Billy go swimming in the beautiful outdoor hotel pool with regular 5 pocket shorts on instead of appropriate swim attire!!! For me, that was the turning point!
    Join the Spicy Aprons Affiliate program on ShareASale Visit us on Facebook www.facebook.com/spicyaprons Follow us on Twitter @Spicyaprons

  22. #22
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
    I decide when the pigs fly!
    Rhea's Avatar
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    Without naming names, there are members here who are highly respected among the bashers who feel the same way as Joshua and I do but they choose to stay out of discussions like this because it's a no win.
    Claiming that there are people who would back you up but they can't be bothered doesn't support your argument. Argue the merits or demerits of Billy's actions and others response to it, not the opinions of your inexplicably invisible and silent minions. Otherwise I might have to trot out my own invisble and silent minions and really, where will that leave us?

  23. #23
    Moderator Nabz's Avatar
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    I would just terminate my relationship with endless.

  24. #24
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    I would ask others to chip in with me and get BK a pair of fashionable (but not overstated) swim trunks that are appropriate hotel pool attire. That's what Brian Boitano'd do!
    Join the Spicy Aprons Affiliate program on ShareASale Visit us on Facebook www.facebook.com/spicyaprons Follow us on Twitter @Spicyaprons

  25. #25
    CPA Network Rep Joe Lilly's Avatar
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    I'll contribute to the "Dress Billy Kay" Fund. Are you setting it up as a non-profit since this is such a charity case?

    *smells another Photoshop contest coming*
    *Searches ABW for pics of Billy*


    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Hamilton
    I would ask others to chip in with me and get BK a pair of fashionable (but not overstated) swim trunks that are appropriate hotel pool attire. That's what Brian Boitano'd do!
    Joseph Lilly
    PartnerWeekly, LLC 702.407.0707 joe.lilly at partnerweekly.com
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