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May 23rd, 2008, 10:54 AM #1Who's Reporting in?
With one week to go before the June 1st imposition of the new New York tax regulations, I am deeply discouraged in the amount of true comment we've seen from the merchants and OPMs on this board.
While it's been nice that some have added sympathy, or insight, what we need to know is who we can work with, and who we can't.
Yes, most of your contracts indicate you can terminate us at any time, for whatever reason you deem necessary. At the same time, while Overstock and a few others have been railed against here and elsewhere, at least they gave sufficient notice of their intentions in regards to New York affiliates.
So, to the merchants and OPMs that participate here DAILY, what say you?
May 23rd, 2008, 11:05 AM #2
- Join Date
- October 16th, 2006
- Washington D.C.
As of right now, none of our programs will be terminating NY affiliates. I cannot say this will always be the case, but as it stands there are zero talks of removing NY affiliates from any of the programs, instead they are around how we can keep you all and what we can do for you.
May 23rd, 2008, 11:09 AM #3Originally Posted by Kevin
Currently, MadHatter's clients are not overly concerned with the issue at the moment and have no intentions of removing affiliates at all. 3 of our clients are based in New York so there is not an issue there either.
Perhaps it would be wise to make a list of Programs that have a New York Based Office as a 'safe list'?KK
May 23rd, 2008, 11:10 AM #4
Thank you. I realize that for any merchant outside of New York looking in, nothing can said with 100% certainty, which is why I started the two threads on the ones that were certain.
This thread is specifically to break the silence from the folks that are still batting it around. Or ignoring it, or planning on surprising us with it late next week.
So thanks for the candor. I know I can't hold you to it, per se, but I appreciate you speaking up.
May 23rd, 2008, 11:13 AM #5
May 23rd, 2008, 11:15 AM #6
I have been discussing this with my clients who this affects and at this point, none of the programs I manage will be removing any affiliates who are based out of NY -
Artiko Chef is technically headquartered out of NY - so it is a non issue for them
Half Price Banners - at this point, is willing to do what is required to retain all affiliates regardless of location
HabitatShoes - at this point, it is not a concern and is not removing affiliates from their program
The rest of the programs we manage are all subscription/membership programs and tax is not applicable.
May 23rd, 2008, 11:16 AM #7Originally Posted by KevinKK
May 23rd, 2008, 11:17 AM #8
May 23rd, 2008, 11:19 AM #9
@ Kristin: I know. I'm posting some of these threads in pretty quick succession. None of them are meant to show anyone up, or put them on the spot (well.... maybe just a little).
I really just want to be sure that they all get utilized so we have a good database of info to work from.
May 23rd, 2008, 11:22 AM #10
- Join Date
- January 18th, 2005
I will be recommending to Team Loxly clients that they not remove NYS affiliates.
1. Viator products are not subject to sales tax so they are unaffected. They already cleared this with their legal team.
2. Imagekind has no need or no plans to remove NYS affiliates
3. PC Micro Store I will be talking to more, but they are not in a position to need to remove NYS affiliates at this time either. They are very committed to making their affiliate program grow, so doing anything that would make it shrink is not in their plan
4. Loxly Gallery will not now or in the future remove any affiliate based on location and legislation.
5. New client TBA is also committed to its future affiliates and will not remove or restrict based on location.
6. Any consulting clients I get will be fully informed and will be strongly encouraged to way all sides and see the benefits of remaining committed to affiliates if they want the affiliate channel to grow and be strong.Deborah Carney
TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com
May 23rd, 2008, 11:22 AM #11Originally Posted by KevinKK
May 23rd, 2008, 01:56 PM #12
We spoke about this already, but I'll post as well for the rest of ABW...
4Checks will not be terminating NY affiliate partners. Or any affiliate partners. Except for those that can not follow the T & C's.
As Kristin said, I am still waiting to hear back from our legal/finance team about the specifics, and will post in the 4Checks forum when I have more information.Kim Salvino, Client Services Director, Performance Horizon Group
Reach me at kim.salvino(at)performancehorizon.com or on (443) 617-4036
May 23rd, 2008, 02:49 PM #13
May 23rd, 2008, 03:09 PM #14
At this point in time AutoAnything is not planning on dropping any NY-based affiliates.
I agree with Kristen in that most merchants are probably still trying to wrap their head around the whole law. I know this has been issue no. 1 for both myself and the company for most of the month.
I hope this helps.[B][COLOR=Navy]Nadia Levine (van Rooyen)[/COLOR][/B]
Senior Manager, Affiliate Practice at Vantage Media
May 23rd, 2008, 03:19 PM #15
I guess I am struggling to see why merchants are not willing to add some smart technology to their shopping carts....
for instance - if it becomes necessary for Half Price banners to collect NY Sales tax, we will add script that will determine if an affiliate ID is present in the URL reference, if so, then if the visitor selects New York as the state for delivery, a tax field will then be displayed and added into the total cost of the order...Yes there will be some work determining tax amounts, and without knowing which affiliates are based in New York, we will run the potential of collecting tax on orders that do not fall under this law, the missing piece to not cause that to happen, would be a cross referenced list of SAS Aff ID's that are based out of NY, but that infringes upon privacy of affiliates. So my client and his account will deal with the tax collecting and paying to the state of New York, we will make sure the site is capable of collecting taxes so all affiliates can continue to generate sales from programs we manage.
I would think the big guys have enough programmers to do this as well, so why on earth is it necessary to boot New York affiliates?
(I know I am simplifying the programming process, my developers can talk for hours on how they are going to do this, I am just stating it as simply as I can)
May 23rd, 2008, 03:32 PM #16
May 23rd, 2008, 03:59 PM #17Originally Posted by KevinKim Salvino, Client Services Director, Performance Horizon Group
Reach me at kim.salvino(at)performancehorizon.com or on (443) 617-4036
May 23rd, 2008, 07:15 PM #18
I've been thinking about this a great deal, like most of us have, and the advice and ideas out there are all over the place. We plan to make an announcement about this early next week. I know it's cutting it close but there hasn't been a lot of time to first determine the liability, or lack of, and to come up with a solution that works for everyone-well everyone except the state of NY.
At this time, none of my clients have any plans to remove any NY affiliates. They had the obvious questions since the rules seem to be so vague but none of them even asked or hinted about removing any affiliates. It seems worst case is to just collect the tax and pay the ransom, err I mean bill.
I would like some input on some ideas. Since nobody knows, or is saying, just what we need to do I think there are some steps we can take to give the merchant and the affiliate the best advantage possible.
Step 1: Change our terms to disallow any direct promotion by any means, except the affiliate's website, for those affiliates in NY. I don't think this will have a major impact on NY affiliates. There are a number of creative ways to inform their email subscribers, for example, that there is a good sale on Blue Widgets with a 10% off coupon without naming the actual product name or company. Also have strict enforcement of this rule.
Step 2: Ask NY affiliates (or possibly to ask all affiliates to tell us what state they live in)to identify themselves to us so we can try to make a better determination of any tax liability. As it is now, with SAS, we know the dollar volume of sales sold by NY affiliates but do not know if those sales were made to NY residents. My ex-affiliate side wouldn't have a problem with letting any merchant I promoted knowing which state I lived in. I know and respect that some affiliates wish to remain anonymous but, given the current situation, is this desire more important?
Another possibility could be to determine what a fair CPM rate would be for NY affiliates, based on past or estimated future sales, and pay them this way instead of a percentage of sales. This option would mean a lot of work to calculate, negotiate and monitor but it's an idea I'm kicking around in my head.
The end goal is maintain relationships with all NY affiliates, protect the merchants, avoid having to collect taxes for sales on already over-burdened NY residents and resist this rediculous law as much as possible.
As affiliates, is this acceptable? As merchants, do you think this does enough to avoid the tax and protect yourself?
May 23rd, 2008, 10:48 PM #19
I think NY affiliates would be very happy to have merchants work with them rather than terminate them. I think you're being very reasonable.
May 24th, 2008, 07:37 AM #20
- Join Date
- March 25th, 2008
Just a few quick points:
1. It would be nice to have a list of merchants who will not terminate NY affiliates. IMO the networks would be in the best position to contact merchants ( and notify affiliates) who either already collect NY sales tax or plan on doing so in accordance with the new law.
2. I do not have a problem with merchants knowing my address. Under the law it is their responsibility to know the sales they are getting from NY affiliates. We have been contacted by a few merchants (SAS) asking for our address, which we readily provide.
3. It seems to me that LS and CJ merchants are aware of our address, as that is where most of our terminations are coming from at this point.
4. As a NY affiliate spending Memorial Day Weekend waiting for the other shoe to drop, deleting links, etc. is not a fun position to be in.
May 26th, 2008, 07:53 AM #21
Less than a week and still many OPM's/AM's (who are usually very vocal) and merchants are quiet. In my opinion, poor business practice. At least say you are looking into things, trying or we don't have to worry.
May 26th, 2008, 08:10 AM #22
Mellie: There are a few OPM's that have been so quiet (both publicly and personally), that I've already vowed to not work with them anymore regardless.
It's LUDICROUS that comment can't be made as to what their merchants are thinking on this. No one is looking for definites, but "checking in", which is why I called this thread just that, is the duty of an OPM.
I guess some think their only responsibility is to hand out money and announce promotions. Think I could hire someone to do that for a few hundred bucks a month.
May 26th, 2008, 08:19 AM #23Thread started on Friday, a weekend followed. Some OPMs may have a hard time getting any response from their clients over the weekend (this is at least my case). I wouldn't jump to conclusions that fast, Kevin, but give other OPMs a day or two.
At present time and to my knowledge none of my current clients are planning on discontinuing to work with NY affiliates. Needless to say that should such a thought cross their mind, I will (as I have already) advise them differently.
Geno Prussakov AM Navigator LLC Twitter.com/ePrussakov We Manage: These affiliate programs My Services: Affiliate program management, audit, consulting, speaking
May 26th, 2008, 08:51 AM #24
While you are correct Geno, the situation extends far beyond this thread or, dare I say, even ABW
I'm not naming any names, since I have had some private conversations with folks, and a good deal have posted here or in other threads.
May 26th, 2008, 09:05 AM #25
Kevin, Ok JRami checking in.
You know how it is sometimes we have to wait a few days for certain decisions to be made direct from merchants end just to make sure. But JRami will not directly be terminating any NY affiliates and we do advise all current active or future merchant programs not to either.
You are doing great in keeping everyone informed and against this NY fiasco and tax imposed on merchants via NY affiliates so keep'em going. Hopefully Amazon and others that will file suit WIN eventually and it will go away.
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