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  1. #1
    Online Marketing Consultant
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    A couple questions about Tax laws and how it effects others
    So a few other things which have not been brought up are how this will effect other people and some parties which we may not have thought of.

    1. OPMs and AMs and recruiting. How will this effect your recruiting efforts and your company's name. You reach out to webmasters and websites, do everything to recruit them for your program and all of the sudden find out they are in NY and have to turn around and reject them. This is a bad experience on the Merchant, your firm, your name as a manager and is a huge loss of time you could have spent doing things like catching trademark poachers and keeping a solid program.

    2. What about contacting the various checkouts and shopping carts, they collect funds, and can probably calculate taxes for your company without it taking time from you, etc... and what about merchants writing them to take action and having them look at the taxes and tax laws for the merchants.

    If the shopping carts would take care of adding in taxes instead of the merchants sites, it would then create much less of a hassle for the finance and accounting departments, the IT team would not have to worry as much and the General Counsels may be able to stay out of this. I know this is flawed but it is just a thought.

    3. So these Merchants who are turning you off on Friday or even tonight or tomorrow without any prior communication, are you going to so easily change the links back to them when they go live again if Amazon wins? There are some fabulous AMs and OPMs here like Kim from 4checks who I respect and admire and are fighting their heads off for everyone, while you have others who just hit a switch then go on without any extra efforts or outreach. JMO, excluding the ones who are not sitting there doing everything and working with you all and keeping you all updated with any and all progressions in the decision making process shouldn't be let off the hook so easy as you have AMs and OPMs who are doing their best to fight for you. What are you going to do if the law is overturned and these Merchants who just flipped the switch say, well come on back? True, some of them are huge brand names so it is beneficial to promote them and they convert higher sometimes, but they also dumped you and did not keep you updated. What about the Merchants and AMs or OPMs who supported you during this time and took active measures, will you give them the placements on your site even though they may not be huge companies because they stood up for you or will you replace them again for the large names because you have access to the brands again? (also, the people who may have had to remove you but are doing their best to keep you and constantly updating you, what about those guys, would the bigger names or the ones who ditched you get the placements above them?)

    These are three thoughts I cannot get out of my head and was wondering what everyone thinks about them.
    Adam Riemer Marketing, LLC. Online Marketing Blog and Affiliate Management Company
    Do you need help with your Marketing or Sales funneling, write me at adamr (at) adamriemer (dot) me

  2. #2
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    Shopping carts are mostly not run remotely, I don't understand the "let the shopping cart charge the tax and do the accounting" part. As a merchant with new york state affiliates and new york state customers the accounting for the new york state law is as follows:

    Do you have 10,000 a year in NYS affiliate sales to NYS customers.

    1. The network you are on can give you the total sales for NYS affiliates, but has no way to tell you whether those sales were to NYS customers.

    2. To find out who those sales were TO, the network would have to give the merchant a list of NYS affiliates and their tracking IDs (against current privacy policy for the networks). Then the merchant has to match those transaction IDs against their sales databases for the shipping addresses for those sales. Then take THAT total to determine if they even need to start collecting the NYS sales tax.

    3. If that number in step 2 exceeds $10k over the previous 4 quarters, now the merchant has to go add all the NYS tax tables to their shopping cart, register with NYS Dept of Taxation and start collecting sales tax on ALL orders, affiliate driven or not, that are shipped to NYS.

    While to the average Joe this might not sound all that complex, there are a myriad of problems and complications, INCLUDING the very important fact that the INFORMATION IS NOT AVAILABLE TO THE MERCHANT FROM THE NETWORKS WITHOUT BREAKING PRIVACY AGREEMENTS.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  3. #3
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    Plus if you are a merchant on multiple networks you have to repeat step 2 for each network.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  4. #4
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollerblader

    3. So these Merchants who are turning you off on Friday or even tonight or tomorrow without any prior communication, are you going to so easily change the links back to them when they go live again if Amazon wins? There are some fabulous AMs and OPMs here like Kim from 4checks who I respect and admire and are fighting their heads off for everyone, while you have others who just hit a switch then go on without any extra efforts or outreach. JMO, excluding the ones who are not sitting there doing everything and working with you all and keeping you all updated with any and all progressions in the decision making process shouldn't be let off the hook so easy as you have AMs and OPMs who are doing their best to fight for you. What are you going to do if the law is overturned and these Merchants who just flipped the switch say, well come on back? True, some of them are huge brand names so it is beneficial to promote them and they convert higher sometimes, but they also dumped you and did not keep you updated. What about the Merchants and AMs or OPMs who supported you during this time and took active measures, will you give them the placements on your site even though they may not be huge companies because they stood up for you or will you replace them again for the large names because you have access to the brands again? (also, the people who may have had to remove you but are doing their best to keep you and constantly updating you, what about those guys, would the bigger names or the ones who ditched you get the placements above them?)
    I will not ever go running back to a merchant who dumped on their NY affiliates. I also know who the AMs are who are working for us and CARE about their recruited affiliates and the Internet marketing industry in general. And unfortunately, some of the managers and OPMs are working for or with companies that decided (either a month ago or just last night) to crap on many affiliates they worked hard to recruit and maintain. This is affecting the OPMs and managers, too.

    Questionable practices are red flags to me and once a red flag is waved in my face, I don't forget. Likewise, when a manager or OPM has gone to bat for his/her affiliates I will remember. This business thrives and runs on TRUST - Once trust is lost, it's not at all easy to get it back. Good luck to those who decided to take advantage of our trust and not honor our partnerships.

    I'm actually kinda shocked that we are in business with so many dumb partners. This whole NYS tax mess has forced many programs to show the true colors of their CEOs and it's pathetic that most of the affiliates and managers I know are smarter and better versed in business and comment sense than most merchants.

    Amazon was ON IT before anyone else figured out there was even a problem. Amazon is a true Internet marketing company with a great CEO who is willing to go to bat for everyone in this industry and put their money where their mouth is. Sure they pay for sh!t and have a stupid ass cookie duration but I have always trusted Amazon to "do the right thing" and they always have. Being cheapskates is another matter altogether. LOL

    So, Amazon will forever be a hero of the Internet marketing industry in my book and so will the merchants who FIGURED OUT A WAY to maintain their NY affiliates without jumping ship and leaving the wounded and slow swimmers to deflect the sharks in the water to save their own pathetic a$$es. I already said what I think of them in another thread and it wasn't pretty so I'll put it nicer: they're cowards and I don't want cowards on my team. We're all in this game to win, not to drag dead weight around just because they might have a "brand" name or whatever other reason. If they're not gonna fight for the team, they can kiss my a$$ - might as well have them on the opposite side.

    Time to leave the computer for a few hours and chill out again. LOL
    GAWD this has been a rough month!
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
    Loving Everyone's Child Creates Magic


  5. #5
    Online Marketing Consultant
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    Rexanne, you are a true gem and are a "super affiliate" on more than one level.

    Loxly, that is what I am talking about, why can't the shopping carts set it up so that the Merchant can have it automatically calculate the taxes for each state in the cart.

    If the shopping cart company would do this, I think there would be a fairly larger demand right now by merchants with programs as it would make it easier for them in case this spreads into new states. It isn't a fix by any means, but maybe a way to help ease the load on the companies. Also, by making it easier for them, hopefully they would be more willing to continue with their programs, not to mention their AMs and OPMs could reopen the talk about NY because now they have a solution for collecting the taxes.
    Adam Riemer Marketing, LLC. Online Marketing Blog and Affiliate Management Company
    Do you need help with your Marketing or Sales funneling, write me at adamr (at) adamriemer (dot) me

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollerblader
    Loxly, that is what I am talking about, why can't the shopping carts set it up so that the Merchant can have it automatically calculate the taxes for each state in the cart.
    You missed my points. Some of the calculating can't be done by the shopping cart. Like in my point 2. Determining whether a merchant has nexus in NYS before it needs to move to the collecting tax part.

    Tax charts may be able to be added to most cart software, there are thousands and also thousands of custom carts. Some can easily be adapted to add tax zones, some need to be inputted manually.

    One state may be manageable, 47 states creates accounting nightmares that go beyond needing to collect the taxes for small to mid-sized merchants.

    Shopping cart software won't fix it.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  7. #7
    Prince of Content Vinny O'Hare's Avatar
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    I agree with what Rexanne posted. We know who was fighting for us and those links will return if the law goes bye bye.

    The other affiliate links will never go back on my sites.
    Vinny O'Hare - OPM - Contact Info email: vinny at teamloxly.com ~ 702-582-6742 Twitter

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