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  1. #1
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    (2008) Shop-n-order.com Trademark Poaching
    Shop-n-order.com has been caught and warned twice about trademark bidding in different programs on different networks. First violation was on 03/18/2008, then again on 05/13/2008. We again found him trademark bidding on a third program this time through AdSense (prior two were AdWords) on 06/12/2008.

    The affiliate is Andy Grider at the above domain and has been terminated from all of our affiliate programs. All three violations have been documented and reported to the affiliate.

  2. #2
    Best New ABW Member 2007 sfcom's Avatar
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    This one or different, Chuck?

    http://center.spoke.com/info/pJqCpx/AndyGrider

    -sfcom


  3. #3
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    sfcom, can't say for certain but did check on network and his address is from Ohio!

  4. #4
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    A google look up of his name and affiliate yeilds:

    http://www.gridermarketing.com/experience.html

    email Grider Marketing, Inc.
    Phone Number: 419-215-5772
    Physical Address:
    Grider Marketing, Inc.
    1677 Grand Cypress Blvd.
    Waynesville, OH 45068

    At Grider Marketing, we work with companies no matter how big or how small they are. Past and present clients include Sensational Beginnings, Lumber Liquidators, PokerSignUpCodes.com, PokerLegislation.com, TheSaxStore.com, Shop-N-Order, ScientificFun.com, and many more.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  5. #5
    Outsourced Program Manager
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    I had the same problem with this affiliate. He stopped TM bidding after I caught him, and has complied with our terms since then.

    His affiliate name in ShareASale is Grider Marketing, Inc. - AID 118204

  6. #6
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    what a silly lad, they dont learn do they.

  7. #7
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    Just curious....how do you do trademark poaching on AdSense? I thought Google determines what to show on your site.

    Ken

  8. #8
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    Ken,

    I believe Chuck is referring to affiliates purchasing contextual ads (adSense ads) triggered by the brand's keyword. Since there are so many search arbitragers (adwords -> adsense), it is pretty easy for an affiliate to get their adSense ads on pages that are 1 click from the search results.

    It is still a form of poaching - just a bit more challenging to detect.

    Best,
    Dave

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador Joshua's Avatar
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    Trademark poaching on adsense? Give me a break... That's one of the most ridiculous accusations I've heard around here, and I've never seen terms that refer to the content network on any merchant.

  10. #10
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    Many merchants do consider all keyword-driven PPC to be covered by their terms. We've gotten multiple requests to include the content networks in our monitoring systems. I'll admit that the issues here are complex and abuse isn't straightforward to detect.

    However, if you read merchant policies carefully, you'll see that many use terms such as 'PPC engines' or 'pay-for-placement engines'. While you may be interpreting this to apply to search only - some (not all) definitely intend it to cover all PPC.

  11. #11
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    The affiliate moved from duplicating our ads on AdWords to using the same ads on Adsense. It was obvious they realized the money they could make with the former and targeted the latter.

  12. #12
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua
    Trademark poaching on adsense? Give me a break... That's one of the most ridiculous accusations I've heard around here, and I've never seen terms that refer to the content network on any merchant.
    OK, maybe I'm just waay too anal, but this was always a non-issue for me. I always assumed when a merchant had keyword restrictions that it applied to ALL PPC bidding including the content network and never even considered that content should be addressed separately, I mean it is PPC.

    Of course, 95% of my campaigns don't include the content network anyway.

    -rematt
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  13. #13
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Understood, what we were seeing was a continuous pattern of trying to get around our policies. They moved from one network to another with differing accounts. We shut them down in one for AdWords trademark bidding and they show up in the other doing AdSense. Obviously they were enjoying some good commissions.

    First violation and warning: 3/18/2008 Trademark Merchant #1
    Second violation and warning: 5/13/2008 Trademark Merchant #2
    Third violation and termination: 6/16/2008 Trademark Merchant #3

    On the third violation we found him with contextual ads for a third merchant.

  14. #14
    Affiliate Manager guinness618's Avatar
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    They did the same thing to me, but used an iteration (Heartsong) and used our display URL.
    It took me awhile, but I finally caught him at 9:30pm at night while I was browsing online at home.
    Perm removed.
    Dyan Carlson
    ["My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness."- The Dalai Lama

  15. #15
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Found Andy in a new program and sure enough he was caught trademark poaching it today. Deactivated him and filed a complaint with Google.

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador Joshua's Avatar
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    Andy Grider is still at it for violating search policies, at least in Linkshare LeadAdvantage. 2.5 years go by, and nothing has changed...

  17. #17
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    The only thing you can do is boot him and file a network compliance complaint.

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador Joshua's Avatar
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    Just reported a violation of his to a network today, and my rep replied with "Oh Andy, he seems to always "accidentally" (sarcastic emphasis) violate search policies, and then seem clueless about it".


    Then kick him out of your network...

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