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  1. #1
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    Affiliate Only Association
    I understand the premise of the PMA thread... bring networks, OPMs, affilliates etc together in one voice

    I'm sorry, I don't get the "We need an affilliate only organization" premise

    If we all got together and formed an association

    and one of the things we all agreed on was "if Linkshare reporting is down for a week (like it was last week), we require they actually TELL us - with something as simple as a notice on their site when we log in, maybe an email, a post at ABW... ANYTHING

    So we send a rep from our Affiliate Association to knock on Linkshare's door and he demands affiliates be told if reports aren't working.!

    The guy at Linkshare says "...or what?"

    What's our "or what?" Our leverage? Our ace in the whole?

    Maybe it's staring me in the face, but I don't see it.

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
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    Honestly, I don't see it either. The larger group makes more sense to me because it aims to influence outside factors - laws and such. What would an affiliate-only group bring to the table that the larger, industry-wide group wouldn't or couldn't?
    Daniel M. Clark
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    Greg Hoffman Consulting

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Rehan's Avatar
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    Don't Linkshare and CJ already have Affiliate/Publisher Advisory Boards? The members of those boards should be the first to speak out in such situations. And if the networks don't listen to the folks that they themselves have selected to represent the affiliate community, then I doubt they would listen to a third-party affiliate association.
    --

  4. #4
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
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    Why? Because!
    Many years ago, I attended a seminar that included a section on eyewitness identification. There is a concept, the name of which escapes me, built around the theory that witnesses are frequently mistaken in their identification where the actual perpetrator they saw had a single, outstanding characteristic, such as a scar, a mole, a deformity, etc. The witness focuses so much on that one factor, they fail to really see, or remember, other characteristics of the perpetrator, and when they see someone else with a similar characteristic, they are convinced "that's the guy". They are, however, often wrong, because that one marker in the mind is all they can focus on, disregarding all else. The 3 inch scar on the cheek is the New York Tax Law, the one all-important issue that is the impetus for the current fervor to form an affiliate marketing organization. Yes, this one issue is important to all in the affiliate marketing industry, but, should one such issue cause totally diverse interests to unite in a likely ill-fated attempt to fight the effects and expansion of the tax?

    Not to divert this thread, the short versions is that the outcome of the NY Tax issues will be decided by the courts, not by this new organization. If legal, it will eventually spread throughout the country; if illegal, it will end, for now.

    The more important issues facing affiliates are the issues we have faced for years, and our adversaries are number one, the networks, and number two, the merchants. We cannot possibly build a strong, united voice, with strength backing up that voice, in an organization where the networks and the merchants are also members.

    Networks embracing parasites, network tracking questions, networks that do not respond to legitimate questions asked by affiliates, merchants with 1 hour or 1 day cookies, merchants with 0% commissions, merchants who reverse sales for unknown reasons, merchants who dump affiliates who are yet to build a site promoting them - these and more are the real issues we as affiliates face, and we need an organization that can develop into a powerful, united front, to face and potentially resolve these issues, now and in the future.

    As to the effects of state sales taxes, the ultimate issues will also be issues of merchant versus affiliate. Merchants dumping affiliates, merchants telling affiliates where to reside or incorporate, merchants converting to CPC or CPM models, merchants cutting commissions, and more, could all be fallout from the sales tax issues, and these will further pit member against member in an all-inclusive organization.

    In many ways, a third adversary is the consumer. This organization should also have as a goal the education of the consumer as to who we are and what we really do. In the Industry Association Meeting thread, post #29 I posted my opinions on naming such an organization. I think what I said there is important in reaching out to consumers, to show them that we exist and that we can and do contribute to the body of information they rely on in their searches on the web for information, comparisons, reviews, and bargains, and maybe even entertainment, and in reaching product decisions, as well as providing additional shopping portals. Merchants would have no interest in this. In fact it would be totally contrary to the own business interests and overriding profit motives.

    Take another look at what others here have said, in particular posts 42, 44, 45, 55, 73, 84, 91, 104, 142, 145, 172, 174, 182, and 196, in the Industry Association Meeting thread. A lot of these issues, and more, have been mentioned.
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
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  5. #5
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    It saddens me that in an industry where networks, merchants and affiliates need to work together to create income for us all that we are all seen as adversaries.

    What happened to change the "team" concept to the "us vs them" concept?

    Yes, merchants need educating, but seeing them as the enemy is not the way to encourage them to embrace affiliate marketing.

    This month I have become very disillusioned with our industry as a whole.

    Because I am an OPM and merchant, would I be excluded from an "Affiliate Only" organization? What purpose would that serve?

    Maybe it's time to spend more time promoting the newer smaller merchants and use the power of the internet to show the big brands and the bullies that they are not the be all end all they think they are. It has long been my stance that you the affiliate can CREATE the next big brand by just promoting the right new merchants.

    "My site visitors expect the big brands" is a common phrase I hear lately. My stance is that your site visitors expect to see what they CAN'T buy at Walmart, they are looking for stuff that isn't available down the street.

    No affiliate organization is going to make Walmart or Staples change their cookie duration or commission structure. The only thing they see are numbers. Stop promoting them and they will take notice.

    The little shop in Moab Utah that has the local artists work for sale knows they can't compete with Art.com but they don't care, they have something Art.com doesn't have.

    It seems lots of affiliates have lost sight of why they started affiliate marketing in the first place and are getting caught up in the mob mentality of just promoting the big names. The big names just want new eyeballs and are using affiliates and affiliate networks to get them. Start working with merchants that do appreciate your work, your marketing skills, your efforts and your audience.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  6. #6
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loxly
    It saddens me that in an industry where networks, merchants and affiliates need to work together to create income for us all that we are all seen as adversaries.

    What happened to change the "team" concept to the "us vs them" concept?

    Yes, merchants need educating, but seeing them as the enemy is not the way to encourage them to embrace affiliate marketing.
    I could be wrong, but from my perspective its has been the merchants and networks that have brought this about. I can provide a couple of examples:

    1) What was my biggest producing merchant for years introduced a new category of products on which they paid commissions 80% less than on other products. Slowly, they began changing more and more of their products to this category, and time after time I saw sales at the new lower commission, where the commission was changed after I had placed the product on a site, and with no notice. As I could find most of these products through other merchants at higher commissions, I began changing out product links, resulting in less sales with this merchant. Their response - they lowered my commission rate on regular products by 30% becasue I was no longer producing as before.

    2) Three times now I have seen merchants go "out of business" with no notice, requiring finding replacement merchants and changing out product links, and of course not paying outstanding commissions, only to re-open a few months later on a new network.

    Quote Originally Posted by loxly
    Maybe it's time to spend more time promoting the newer smaller merchants and use the power of the internet to show the big brands and the bullies that they are not the be all end all they think they are. It has long been my stance that you the affiliate can CREATE the next big brand by just promoting the right new merchants.

    "My site visitors expect the big brands" is a common phrase I hear lately. My stance is that your site visitors expect to see what they CAN'T buy at Walmart, they are looking for stuff that isn't available down the street.

    No affiliate organization is going to make Walmart or Staples change their cookie duration or commission structure. The only thing they see are numbers. Stop promoting them and they will take notice.

    The little shop in Moab Utah that has the local artists work for sale knows they can't compete with Art.com but they don't care, they have something Art.com doesn't have.

    It seems lots of affiliates have lost sight of why they started affiliate marketing in the first place and are getting caught up in the mob mentality of just promoting the big names. The big names just want new eyeballs and are using affiliates and affiliate networks to get them. Start working with merchants that do appreciate your work, your marketing skills, your efforts and your audience.
    Exactly what I do, for the most part. I have a few Wal-mart products on a couple of sites, and I basically dropped Target when they switched to Performics with no BYOL. I do not belong to Amazon, or Staples, Macys, Sears, KMart, or virtually any major B & M retailers, and primarily promote smaller on-line only merchants, though some of them have recently gotten much bigger, though they must be attributing a lot of their success to their affiliate programs,

    All this, in my mind, buttresses the idea of an affiliate only organization, where affiliates can use their collective power to boycott some programs, support others, and maybe, possibly, bring about some degree of change where it is most needed.
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
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  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador simcat's Avatar
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    I don't think an affiliate only organization is going to have any effect on merchants or networks bad practices.

    IMO the key is getting the information out there, like ABW is great at doing, and letting affiliates vote with their feet.

    An association perceived to be a PITA, might actually make things worse for affiliates? Do any affiliates think they are not expendable?

    Also don't get affiliates who think they have to have Every big name merchant on their sites. I have a coupon site and there are more than a few merchant who I won't advertise, (or won't have me )

    Kinda doubt there are that many visitors who arrive looking for coupons from merchant A, get them, and then say to themselves "wow, I'm never going back there, they don't have coupons for merchant B"

    In the offline world, if your business partners, suppliers, etc. are perceived as adversaries, maybe it's time to rethink your 'friends'.

  8. #8
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simcat
    I don't think an affiliate only organization is going to have any effect on merchants or networks bad practices.
    Would an organization that included merchant and network reps, ams, OPMs, etc. have any better chance?

    Also, how do we know that the big networks and big merchants will let their reps and in-house ams actually be part of such an organization? From the posts in the couple of threads here, and in the links to other sites, it seems that other than affiliates, the people that are really interested in such an organization are virtually all OPMs plus affiliateclassroom.
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
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  9. #9
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    "What happened to change the "team" concept to the "us vs them" concept?"

    As far as networks, I think what happened was:

    In the beginning there were affiliates and merchants and they were doing business, affiliate marketing. Networks aren't even needed for this to happen. Problem was there were some merchants screwing over affiliates or some other issues (still happens today, in network, out of network) and networks came along selling themselves as the Trusted Third Party. Third because they knew the core was the 1st and 2nd party, affiliates/merchants. Trusted well because that sounds good, good marketing and maybe that's how it started. That was their selling point but there have been plenty of times where they didn't hold up to that. Letting parasites in, not handling problem merchants etc. And then also getting in the game themselves becoming competition.

    The whole small merchant vs. big brand merchant is a completely different topic. The reality are big brands got big for a reason. Lots of people shop at those big brands. I myself having a deal/shopping site have the biggest brands out there to the smallest mom and pop and you can make money with all of them. You can stop promoting them, it won't do a thing because they are so big. And then it depends on what model you have. If I pull off big brands, I just hurt my own business and take off merchants shoppers to my site like shopping with. And they convert fine for me. There have been merchant boycotts in the past, didn't accomplish anything. Like I said, the money they make thru affiliates is a drop in the bucket and with this business if you say you're going to drop so and so merchant, another affiliate will step in and say which ones and promote them even more. This is a competitive business.

    The major problem I think with most of these big brands is they either let the network manage their program, big mistake. Because you know they're going to get filled up will all kinds of affiliates that do nothing but target their domain. Or it's usually something else they give the marketing dept to do, among other things so they don't have a dedicated person/team running the program. Not all but I think most. The problem is not affiliate marketing because the concept works, only pay for performance. The problem is the affiliate program just isn't being run right and most of that is just due to a lack of education. Just working with small merchants doesn't change anything.

    "My site visitors expect the big brands" is a common phrase I hear lately."

    That's always been the case and there's truth to that. And I build sites for shoppers, so I'm going to have up what they want. And I'm going to have up the small merchants too, I like good merchants regardless of size. And don't confuse merchant with the merchant's affiliate program. The affiliate program might stink, but shoppers shop with the merchant, not with the affiliate program.

  10. #10
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    Just wanted to add this about what I was talking about, with Trusted Third Party and such. I remember this old thread, about Todd from CJ selling this idea to a merchant in some Yahoo group -

    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread...ght=todd+yahoo

    I like the networks in the sense of the tools and consolidated payments, lots of merchants to choose from, that kind of thing. They do have a lot of positives. I'm speaking more to the things over the years they let slide or promoted that wasn't positive for the average affiliate or this industry.

  11. #11
    Affiliate Manager PetsWarehouse.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loxly
    work together to create income for us all that we are all seen as adversaries.......seeing them as the enemy is not the way to encourage them to embrace affiliate marketing.

    ...... I be excluded from an "Affiliate Only" organization? What purpose would that serve?
    Exactly, I would be excluded by my biz partners, that makes for a positive relationship?

    No affiliate organization is going to make Walmart or Staples change their cookie duration or commission structure. Stop promoting them and they will take notice.
    You choose your partner, a merchant doesn't twist your arm to promote them, Debbie's correct drop 'em.

    Quote Originally Posted by simcat
    I don't think an affiliate only organization is going to have any effect on merchants or networks bad practices.
    Your correct about merchants, maybe over time thru education there may be changes.
    Networks on the other hand may listen to a org depending on the issue but without an org you don't stand a chance.
    Now if that org has some merchants included you stand a better chance.

    Divided we fall!


    ....if your business partners, suppliers, etc. are perceived as adversaries, maybe it's time to rethink your 'friends'.
    Absolutely
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  12. #12
    Affiliate Manager PetsWarehouse.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffiliateHound
    my biggest producing merchant for years introduced a new category of products on which they paid commissions 80% less than on other products. Slowly, they began changing more and more of their products to this category, and time after time I saw sales at the new lower commission, where the commission was changed after I had placed the product on a site, and with no notice. ... Three times now I have seen merchants go "out of business" with no notice, requiring finding replacement merchants and changing out product links, and of course not paying outstanding commissions, only to re-open a few months later on a new network.
    All this, in my mind, buttresses the idea of an affiliate only organization, where affiliates can use their collective power to boycott some programs, support others, and maybe, possibly, bring about some degree of change where it is most needed.
    NO org is going to stop this crap at all, this is part of the biz world, happens everyday, get over it.

    Like debbie said DROP 'EM, move on find ethical merchants to replace them.

    So you got screwed out of a couple of bucks it sucks but now you know who to avoid in the future.

    Do you really think the bad merchants are going to join such an org?
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  13. #13
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    This year I cleaned house.

    I read the reports for the last year - if I sent a merchant targeted visitors and they didn't convert, I dropped them no questions asked. Even merchants I like and know. I took emotional attachment out of the equation.

    If there were emails in my outbox still waiting for a response, I dropped them - no questions asked.

    If they sent me what I call SPAM affiliate emails rather then normal affiliate emails - dropped them.

    If they sent "clueless" emails along the lines of "We noticed you only had one sale last year. To help you out, we'll give you a 5 dollar bonus if you make a certain amount of sales by the end of the month, we we figureded to be 140 sales" - dropped 'em.

    If I went to their site and saw problems like "You can save an additional 5% if you phone in the order instead of calling it it" - dropped 'em

    If they recently lowered their commissions, lowered their cookies, or anything similar, dropped 'em.

    If they sent an email that said "Hi I'm the new AM. I realize we haven't paid much attention to the affiliate channel the last couple of years..." dropped 'em

    If they are 2 months befind in payments... not dealing with that anymore... dropped 'em

    If I logged onto the network to get a banner and it said "Christas Sale"... dropped 'em

    This process took months - it's a lot of work dropping merchants, but the end results are

    Linkshare: No change in clicks or sales

    CJ: Big drop in clicks, sales are same or better.... EPC is cool

    Performics: Clicks a lot lower, sales dropped to dismal. I'm no longer a 4-bar affiliate

    Is this good or bad? Don't know. But the feeling of being free of certain merchants, not getting frustrated wondering why a merchant isn't converting... is liberating.
    Last edited by Billy Kay; June 19th, 2008 at 10:21 AM.

  14. #14
    Affiliate Manager Howard Gottlieb's Avatar
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    Attaboy Billy!
    I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die
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  15. #15
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetsWarehouse.com
    NO org is going to stop this crap at all, this is part of the biz world, happens everyday, get over it.

    Like debbie said DROP 'EM, move on find ethical merchants to replace them.

    So you got screwed out of a couple of bucks it sucks but now you know who to avoid in the future.?
    Quote Originally Posted by PetsWarehouse.com
    Do you really think the bad merchants are going to join such an org?
    That really depends on what you consider a "bad" merchant. If enough merchants with the same attitude that you seem to have toward affiliates join, then we're screwed anyway.

    You apparently don't value our hard work or our incomes. How exactly will that help affiliates get a fair deal. So perhaps an affiliate only organization won't be a perfect solution. But I can guarantee you that at least it will be concerned about all of the things that you just wrote off as irrelevant. It's irrelevant to you, but it's our livelihoods.

    -rematt
    Last edited by rematt; June 19th, 2008 at 10:59 AM.
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
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    Wait a minute. Merchants joining the org isn't the question. The org is supposed to be for affiliates only. That's the concept being tossed around here.

    The first couple of posts, mine and Billy's raised the basic questions - what kind of power would an affiliate-only association have? What would it be able to accomplish? What would, or could, it's goals be? So far, nobody has really explained it.

    In my mind, an affiliate-only organization that sought to influence networks and merchants would have problems, and here's why:

    1. The problems that occur most frequently happen to one or a few affiliates. Even something huge, like the recent Danmer thing, only affected, what, 8 people? How many ABW'ers who were making good money with Danmer dropped them as a result? People in this industry don't boycott as a rule. Unless bad things happen to us specifically, or to a large enough number of people, it's damn hard to convince us to drop a performing merchant - that's business. More frequently, it's "well, I'm sorry the merchant screwed you brother, but I'm bringing in $500 a month from that merchant and I can't afford to cut that off". Being a member of an association won't change that.

    2. The merchants and networks know that the only thing an affiliate-only organization can do is boycott. There would be no other power available to such an organization. They also know that people in this industry don't boycott as a rule. So, this association can go to a merchant and say "we demand you do this, this and this", and the merchant is going to say "or what?" (as Billy pointed out in post #1).

    An industry-wide association will work because it won't seek to influence the industry (as it's primary goal), it will seek to influence outside entities - lawmakers and such. That's a doable thing. I haven't seen any compelling reasons to try out an affiliate-only group.
    Daniel M. Clark
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  17. #17
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetsWarehouse.com
    NO org is going to stop this crap at all, this is part of the biz world, happens everyday, get over it.

    Like debbie said DROP 'EM, move on find ethical merchants to replace them.

    So you got screwed out of a couple of bucks it sucks but now you know who to avoid in the future.

    Do you really think the bad merchants are going to join such an org?
    I related this in response to Loxly's question "What happened to change the "team" concept to the "us vs them" concept?" Your statement "Do you really think the bad merchants are going to join such an org?" is more support for an affiliates only organization.
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
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  18. #18
    Affiliate Manager Howard Gottlieb's Avatar
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    The biggest issue facing the creation of either an affiliate only association or a general industry wide association is the fact that people really want to keep their business models and techniques very secretive.

    Again, I ask, what exactly would an association's purpose be? What tangible results does anyone think it would accomplish?
    I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die
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  19. #19
    Affiliate Manager PetsWarehouse.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rematt
    That really depends on what you consider a "bad" merchant. If enough merchants with the same attitude that you seem to have toward affiliates join, then we're screwed anyway.

    You apparently don't value our hard work or our incomes. How exactly will that help affiliates get a fair deal. So perhaps an affiliate only organization won't be a perfect solution. But I can guarantee you that at least it will be concerned about all of the things that you just wrote off as irrelevant. It's irrelevant to you, but it's our livelihoods.

    -rematt
    WTF, how did you interpet that so wrong?

    Not what I wrote at all!!!!
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  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    How can a merchant be an affiliate's adversary? Affiliates essentially work FOR merchants making us partners, not adversaries. We're not mutually exclusive. The only comparison I can come up with to affiliates VS merchants is the union/employer relationship. A union uses the "meet our demands or we don't produce your product" threat whereas an affiliate "union" would have no such leverage. The union has a lot of control over it's members whereas affiliates would vigorously resist such control. So, what purpose would an affiliate organization serve?

    That said, to me the most compelling purpose would be to establish a membership of clean affiliates, sell the idea to merchants that our member affiliates will not rip you off using unscrupulous marketing techniques but will provide a more profitable service. That brings us back to the policing question again. But, that may be a necessary process that will have to be developed in order for an affiliate org to be effective and successful [and a force to be reckoned with].

    So, bottom line; I think the only organization that will be effective is one that provides value added service [in the form of clean productive affiliates] to the merchant.



    X

  21. #21
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetsWarehouse.com
    WTF, how did you interpet that so wrong?

    Not what I wrote at all!!!!
    Bob feel free to correct my interpretation. But this is what I heard:

    NO org is going to stop this crap at all, this is part of the biz world, happens everyday, get over it.
    Basically it sounds to me like you're saying that we should never fight an injustice and just take it lying down. Not my philosophy of life or business.

    Like debbie said DROP 'EM, move on find ethical merchants to replace them.
    Sometimes easier said then done. You must think that all we do is throw up a couple of banners and we're ready for business. It typically require hours if not days to integrate a new merchant into our sites, optimize them for the SEs, set up PPC campaigns etc. Our time is worth something. How many merchants should we drop before it becomes a fruitless endeavor?

    So you got screwed out of a couple of bucks it sucks but now you know who to avoid in the future.
    So now in addition to wasting my time promoting a merchant I should also leave money that I legitimately earned on the table too? It may be a couple of bucks to you, it may represent the mortgage to some of us.

    So far Merchants 3 - Affiliates 0.

    Each of your responses basically said that there should be no accountability for unethical behavior by merchants. Nah, we we don't need a voice of our own, merchants will look after our rights.

    Now Bob, perhaps some feel that all of our petty little complaints about non-payments by merchants, merchants that decide that a commission vacation is acceptable, and merchants that steal our content is business as usual. Perhaps that's exactly what we need to change. I'll agree that there are other issues that also should be addressed by an INDUSTRY organization, however any organization that has the attitude of "take it on the chin and get over it" probably isn't going to be too effective from the affiliate standpoint.

    I don't believe that many affiliates would feel that these issues should be handled the way that you suggest. Perhaps that's why an affiliate only organization is needed, it's obvious you don't understand some of our issues. I don't know, I'm going to keep an open mind and based on what I've seen from other merchants, AMs and OPMs here assume that most non-affiliates don't share your attitude. It's unfortunate, but I'm sure some do.

    If I've taken any of what you said out of context or misinterpreted it please feel free to correct me. Perhaps I'm just being too literal.

    -rematt
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  22. #22
    Affiliate Manager PetsWarehouse.com's Avatar
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    How many merchants should you drop, the question is how carefully do you select them in the first place.


    You should perform your own due diligence, if you don’t well………….


    If the majority of the merchants didn’t pay their affiliates or cut their commissions affiliating marketing wouldn’t exist, would it?


    Sounds like you got burnt after investing a lot of time, sorry to hear that, but it can happen. There are risks in any biz.


    Now the issue is can that type of unethical behavior be mitigated in the future.
    Answer yes!


    With a new unified affiliate/merchant org with a set of standards which must be followed by all its members.


    With those standards for entry you as an affiliate member can seek a merchant that is also a member that has agreed to adhere to ethical standards you then have a much better chance of avoiding the nightmares you speak of.


    Your other option is the hell with an organized group go it on your own but that can get you another nightmare.


    I may not understand all your issues I’ve only been doing our affiliate program since 2003 but if you have it your way and exclude merchants you’ll never learn me.


    Ps: I don’t have a negative attitude at all, why the hell am I posting here. I’m here to promote this segment of our business ethically.

    I strongly believe that a unified affiliate/merchant org will go long way towards that goal and protect us all from unfair legislation.





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    Bob Pets Warehouse
    Worlds Largest Pet Supply DataBase
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  23. #23
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    Bob..... oh hell, never mind, I'm tired.

    -rematt
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  24. #24
    Comfortably Numb John Powell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetsWarehouse.com
    I strongly believe that a unified affiliate/merchant org will go long way towards that goal and protect us all from unfair legislation.
    Yes but I think you have to add in the OPMs in some way since some merchants won't get involved except via that route. I want Greg, Chuck, Ron, Andy type folks in. Those names are just examples not to hurt feelings.

    My red line is being in with CJ, LinkShare, PJ, and big Goog. These organizations are important to us but already have plenty of control over our lives.


  25. #25
    Outsourced Program Manager Angel Djambazov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HecticDMC
    The merchants and networks know that the only thing an affiliate-only organization can do is boycott. There would be no other power available to such an organization.
    I disagree. Since this is a marketing channel merchants and networks are money driven. If it can be shown that affiliates who are part of such an organization through employing best practice tactics can:
    1) Improve EPC
    2) Create lift in long term customers
    3) Show the above two metrics AND provide less risk to merchants when it comes to brand devaluation

    Then merchants looking to improve their ailing affiliate programs will seek out and listen to such an organization. To me that's power.
    Angel Djambazov
    Managing Edtior ReveNews
    OPM for Keen Shoes and Graphicly.com

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