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  1. #1
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    http://www.internetretailer.com/dailyNews.asp?id=10205

    They now have 712 merchants.
    http://www.ebates.com/all_stores.go

    Looking over the list now. What i notice is they appear to be all network merchants. No SAS merchants, No Indys, there might be a few, like Amazon, still looking. Anybody spot any Indys?

    Just a simple point, that affiliate marketing is more than network merchants, it's also mom and pops you never heard of, merchants still working on their brand, SAS merchants, indys. Now i have a shopping site so i have a lot on the list but i'm starting to venture out because there is a lot more out there, a lot of it still untapped.

  2. #2
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    You made me realize something.

    The brick and mortar retail industry is dominated by places like Walmart. Large corporations have all but squeezed out the little mom and pop operations where someone is just trying their luck at making a good living.

    Most affiliates fit this same description. We are generally small and trying things out as we go along. We pour our own sweat and blood into this and try an reap the rewards.

    Why as small time affiliates would we want to push people to walmart online? Why not push someone that is in the same business class as you are? In the B&M world you'd be hard pressed trying to get a contract with a big company like Walmart they would thumb their noses up at you, instead you would work with others who understand your needs and interests working for each others mutual benefit.

    Where do I get my moe money stealer?

  3. #3
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> They now have 712 merchants. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Only 712? Well, what are we worried about? How many merchants are there, anyway? How many have affiliate programs? How many would have affiliate programs if we asked them to?

    What we need to do is get a list of merchants available who are not doing business with these scum. If no one promotes them, then what will they do?

    Let's see If I avoid CJ merchants and ebates merchants, do you think I will have enough pages to make?

    CJ has 1200. Ebates has 712 but since many of these are the same, I guess that might be 1600 merchants I don't want.

    Now again, how many merchants with affiliate programs did you say there are? I know where to find 607 all in one place. Don't think I will go broke for lack of work, will you?

    Don't promote them! Encourage others not to promote them!

    Don't waste time taking down or updating old pages, just in case something slips past all the rip offs. Just concentrate on new merchants and be sure these aren't in your to do list. In a year, they will feel the effects big time.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    LISTEN! CJ don't give no whistles no more! I can hear the music of another piper!

    [This message was edited by SSanf on September 16, 2003 at 08:58 PM.]

  4. #4
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    I read somewhere there are over 5,000 affiliate programs out there. Most affiliates, just like shopping application affiliates, only stick to network merchants. I have most of the network merchants but am focusing now more on indys and merchants no one on this board has It's good to have a nice mix and nice finding those indys that convert and pay.

    "The successful man is the average man, focused."

  5. #5
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    I have suspected for a long time that parasites concentrate on the networks. It's bigger, easier money for them!

    There are some big, high paying merchants, like zZounds for an example that are Indies because they don't want to pay the big network fees. That's part of how they can offer the top commission in their market space PLUS, they want to have a direct connect with affiliates - instead of the networks owning their affiliate channel. So it's not just little merchants that are Indies. It's a matter of finding the good ones!

    3 of the 4 merchants I am launching in the next 2 weeks are Indies, through one of the leading tracking programs - DirectTrack.
    They are all parasite-free and committed to staying that way!

    I too, am trying to build a mix between network merchants and Indies, just to cover all bases and offer the best choices for all of my partners.

    Linda Buquet :: Affiliate Management Consultant :: Catalyst eMarketing.com
    5 Star Affiliate Programs :: Top Paying/High-Integrity Merchants :: Visit ABW Forum
    <FONT COLOR=red size="1">EveryTicket Sports/Concert Tickets :: Irv's Luggage Warehouse :: Executive Essentials Office & Gifts:
    DentalPlans :: HealthPlans :: Avid Hosting :: IntelliContactPro :: zZounds Music :: Roadloans :: MORE!
    </font>

  6. #6
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Now you're talking!

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    LISTEN! CJ don't give no whistles no more! I can hear the music of another piper!

  7. #7
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I read somewhere there are over 5,000 affiliate programs out there. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    OMG! Now, I have to put another 3400 merchants on my to do list!!

    I want my mommy!

    I'm so scared of parasites! LOL We ought to just laugh them and any one connected with them right out of business. Seriously, we should. When they come begging you to feature their products again, and they will, just give them the big old horse laugh.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    LISTEN! CJ don't give no whistles no more! I can hear the music of another piper!

  8. #8
    Affiliate Summit Guy Shawn Collins's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Catalyst:
    I have suspected for a long time that parasites concentrate on the networks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    One of the reasons for this is that networks provide the sub-ID reporting, aggregated transaction files, etc. that are needed by affiliates that reward points, money or whatever to their members.

    So an affiliate can partner up with most big brands by having an account with Be Free, CJ, LinkShare, and Performics.

    Shawn Collins
    ClubMom, Inc.

    http://www.affiliatemanager.net - tools and resources for affiliate managers

  9. #9
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Once again, reminding folks that SAS and their 607 merchants do not meet that criteria.

    Thanks, Shawn, for making my point for me.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    LISTEN! CJ don't give no whistles no more! I can hear the music of another piper!

  10. #10
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    And besides the scumware themselves, only the networks profit from this. That tells you something. If Ebates helped the merchants alone so much, then why aren't the indies clamoring to be in their program?

    The networks profit from Ebates and the like, not the merchants. And it doesn't help having the silver tongued networks whispering sweet nothings of assurance to the merchants, "Ebates?? Success story, you want to partner with them..."

    Chet

  11. #11
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Heyder:
    You made me realize something.

    The brick and mortar retail industry is dominated by places like Walmart. Large corporations have all but squeezed out the little mom and pop operations where someone is just trying their luck at making a good living.

    Most affiliates fit this same description. We are generally small and trying things out as we go along. We pour our own sweat and blood into this and try an reap the rewards.

    Why as small time affiliates would we want to push people to walmart online? Why not push someone that is in the same business class as you are? In the B&M world you'd be hard pressed trying to get a contract with a big company like Walmart they would thumb their noses up at you, instead you would work with others who understand your needs and interests working for each others mutual benefit.

    Where do I get my moe money stealer?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Im honestly glad you are just now "realizing this". We have talked about doing business with indys and smaller programs for over a year. Also, I hope you have reconsidered your stance on "PayPal Merchants"? Many smaller companies use them as well.

    It is not a surprise that so many of you are losing so much money, you guys are as stubborn as the day is long!

    Your refusing to do business with smaller merchants is akin to me saying Ill only work with 50K a month affiliates! Hopefully youll get my point. Heyder, Im assuming you are not a 50K a month affiliate, but I know MANY who make that and MORE! every month!

    As a side note, we are in the process of compiling an easy to use database of ALL affiliate programs (over 2700 so far). Each program will have as much disclosure as we can find on the companies.

    Good luck all!

  12. #12
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    See this list?

    http://www.ebates.com/all_stores.go

    Let me ask you, what exactly would happen if EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU promptly and PERMANENTLY removed all these offending merchants off your sites and cancelled your accounts with them?

    Not only are you sending them a message but you are also telling other merchants who are considering using ebates and the like what they are in for if they join the ranks.

    Im not sure why no one is doing this??

    Here are a few that especially irk me to no end...

    1-800-FLOWERS
    123Inkjets
    A & E/The History Channel
    A&E Designs (who promised me they WERENT with ebates)
    Art.com
    Best Deal Magazines
    Bonsai Boy of New York (12%!!!!)
    Catalog City (not the only scam theyre running!)
    Domestications (the spam never ends!)
    eBay (ebay!!! i didnt know they were on this list!!!!!)
    Gevalia
    GiveAnything.com (that name rings a bell!)
    GoToMyPC (well that explains THAT!)
    Kmart.com (hahaha they deserve what they get!)
    Lobster Gram
    Martha Stewart (bad karma!)
    McAfee.com (hmm a bit ironic!)
    The New York Times (hahaha now that is too much!)

  13. #13
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    See this list?

    http://www.ebates.com/all_stores.go

    Let me ask you, what exactly would happen if EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU promptly and PERMANENTLY removed all these offending merchants off your sites and cancelled your accounts with them?

    Not only are you sending them a message but you are also telling other merchants who are considering using ebates and the like what they are in for if they join the ranks.

    Im not sure why no one is doing this??

    Here are a few that especially irk me to no end...

    1-800-FLOWERS
    123Inkjets
    A & E/The History Channel
    A&E Designs (who promised me they WERENT with ebates)
    Art.com
    Best Deal Magazines
    Bonsai Boy of New York (12%!!!!)
    Catalog City (not the only scam theyre running!)
    Domestications (the spam never ends!)
    eBay (ebay!!! i didnt know they were on this list!!!!!)
    Gevalia
    GiveAnything.com (that name rings a bell!)
    GoToMyPC (well that explains THAT!)
    Kmart.com (hahaha they deserve what they get!)
    Lobster Gram
    Martha Stewart (bad karma!)
    McAfee.com (hmm a bit ironic!)
    The New York Times (hahaha now that is too much!)

  14. #14
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Why as small time affiliates would we want to push people to walmart online? Why not push someone that is in the same business class as you are? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    For me, Walmart's money is as good as any small merchant's money. Why should I not take it?

    As for setting up a real boycott of parasite-friendly merchants, that idea has been kicked around a lot. Trouble is, a leader is needed to get everyone on board, but they don't come forward to enable it.

  15. #15
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> For me, Walmart's money is as good as any small merchant's money. Why should I not take it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Well, if you don't really MIND working for almost free, relative to what you should earn for selling the same merchandise, while your commissions are being stolen and diverted to another party, by all means do so.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> As for setting up a real boycott of parasite-friendly merchants, that idea has been kicked around a lot. Trouble is, a leader is needed to get everyone on board, but they don't come forward to enable it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Actually that is a bad assumption and where many are going wrong in their thinking. A leader does NOT need to emerge to lead us into the light. Nor, do we need to act in goose step style. What needs to occur and what is occurring is for each to ascertain in their own mind that working with programs that are less and less beneficial to us is not in our own vested self interest.

    This is happening daily, now. Each time an affiliate opts to use their time promoting a "clean" merchant, they are not using that same time to promote a "dirty" merchant.

    The results are being felt as I type. Look at CJs declining merchant list.

    We can act as individuals and STILL have a group impact. This will work and it is the only way that we will ever win given the extreme independent nature of people who opt to work in this field.

    I encourage you and others to use your time wisely and promote products and merchants where you and you alone will receive the full benefit of the commissions that you generate with your labor.

    I DO NOT advocate that anyone remove pages that are putting food on the table. BUT, if a parasite infested program changes networks. DON'T waste time re-doing all those pages. Get a "clean" merchant, instead. If you need to decide what to do today, make pages for a "clean" merchant or update pages for a parasite whore, please incline toward the "clean" merchant. You'll feel better doing it and be glad you did.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    LISTEN! CJ don't give no whistles no more! I can hear the music of another piper!

    [This message was edited by SSanf on September 17, 2003 at 11:42 AM.]

  16. #16
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SSanf:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> For me, Walmart's money is as good as any small merchant's money. Why should I not take it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Well, if you don't really MIND working for almost free, relative to what you should earn for selling the same merchandise, while your commissions are being stolen and diverted to another party, by all means do so.

    +++ Exactly!

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> As for setting up a real boycott of parasite-friendly merchants, that idea has been kicked around a lot. Trouble is, a leader is needed to get everyone on board, but they don't come forward to enable it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Actually that is a bad assumption and where many are going wrong in their thinking. A leader does NOT need to emerge to lead us into the light. Nor, do we need to act in goose step style. What needs to occur and what is occurring is for each to ascertain in their own mind that working with programs that are less and less beneficial to us is not in our own vested self interest.

    ++++ Yes that is absolutely RIGHT! Why should one person do everything when people KNOW what they need to do, yet refuse to do it!!

    This is happening daily, now. Each time an affiliate opts to use their time promoting a "clean" merchant, they are not using that same time to promote a "dirty" merchant.

    The results are being felt as I type. Look at CJs declining merchant list.

    ++ Speaking of CJ, I heard that people have to sign contracts to join as merchants. I would think that if a merchant wanted to get out of a contract, it would be real easy to do, considering that several breaches have occured already.

    We can act as individuals and STILL have a group impact. This will work and it is the only way that we will ever win given the extreme independent nature of people who opt to work in this field.

    I encourage you and others to use your time wisely and promote products and merchants where you and you alone will receive the full benefit of the commissions that you generate with your labor.

    ++ Ive been hearing that for TWO years.... Some people just like to complain, but theyl never change. Its hard to feel sorry for people like that.

    _Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!_

    __LISTEN! CJ don't give no whistles no more! I can hear the music of another piper!__<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

  17. #17
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    1) The 5-7% Walmart pays is not nothing. Not to me anyways. It might be small for some products, but it is pretty good for others regardless of merchant size.

    2) I never said individuals could not have an impact. The point was in response at a comment calling for a widespread boycott.

  18. #18
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    jimbo2002.
    I'm on your side. I want you and all of us to make money.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    LISTEN! CJ don't give no whistles no more! I can hear the music of another piper!

  19. #19
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Every time a BHO trashs a shoppers machine, or interfers with their online experience forcing them to use a popup blocker/Ad trashing program, the Walmart -Dell etc etc brand gets tarnished. Subjecting your brand to the whims of parasitic buggy theftware, subjecting you to being a party to Ponzi schemes, and monitizing non-commissionable links should be grounds to terminate those 3rd party AM contracts.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  20. #20
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    I agree on still the need to make money, which is why attacking the whole list is a bad idea. We need to chip away at it. Make some examples. When a merchant sees someone else catching bad press and they are doing the same thing, they are going to rethink doing that anymore.

    Boycott the whole list = terrible idea destined to fail.

    Boycott or protest one merchant = great idea good chance to succeed. And then another, and another. It doesn't even have to be a boycott, just a turning up of the heat. On the AM, on the VPs, on their customers.

    People hate spyware/scumware, now that ebates does not even require registration, the bulk of surfers will be behind us on this one.

    Chet

  21. #21
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    The whole thing is too confusing for the common affiliate. Linkshare supposedly outlawed parasites and TopMoxie is supposedly in compliance (that is what I just read on the SierraTradingPost thread). If Linkshare is right, then the same would hold for Walmart and Dell (both LS programs).

  22. #22
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I'm all for having ABWers pick out ONE PPmerchant in each shopping category who is parasite infested and tar & Feather them. Prime example would be Dell.com the all time diversion champion in the computer merchant category. General ABW public could vote or recommend their favorite boycott target in each category and the private forum get into the details of top prospects without exposing themselves to law suits. Each nominee gets just one choice for each category and if their choice is selected they win a ABW t-shirt...with Haikos approval.

    Just listing the candidates would put those merchant AM's on notice they're being judged as having the crapiest program in that verticle marketplace.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  23. #23
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    I like the idea of voting and exposing the worst pregram in each category. I like it a lot.

    Dell's program stinks, buy I don't know if they have parasites or not. A year after the debacle of Christmas 2002, we still do not have a reliable list of parasites and their merchants.

    It is not even clear if eBates and Top Moxie are still parasitic. Haiko has been a big supporter of LinkShare, LinkShare has had the (former) parasites sign letters saying they are in compliance. ABW features banners from LS merchants that get attacked here, so I don't know who is correct.

    There are too many mixed signals, which is very unfortunate as we head into another Christmas.

  24. #24
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Jimbo ...Dell has volunteered for every Duper BHO plan since TopText started the hubbub. Gator, WhenU, eBates, Morpheous, iGive, SAHS, Upromise. What less could you expect from a merchant who started at LS with 3 sizes of a simple banner and one text link all saying only Dell.com. A discussion on that verticle will uncover more candidates with a special ABW section just for that purpose. Basically the CEO of the winner gets invited to review the posts, doing them a favor. If they choose to terminate all double dipping BHO's and their AM the CEO will also do us all a favor.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  25. #25
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Basically the CEO of the winner gets invited to review the posts, doing them a favor. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I thought linkshare was becoming clean, but maybe it is all talk.

    Anyways, the affiliate manager and Mr Messer should also be invited to review the posts. They will have a lot of explainging to do if they are ripping off Dell and its shareholders (assuming Dell wins in their category).

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