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  1. #1
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    and here is what he said....

    it is ILLEGAL for a company to create a software or any other product or means to ALTER in any way, your website which is in fact YOUR property.

    he told me that there are several issues here, copyright issues, fair trade, libel, PIRACY (theft of goods/services), etc etc

    also a little bit off the subject, check THIS out.... you think we had troubles BEFORE??

    http://www.chillingeffects.org/dmca5...i?NoticeID=851

    ============================

    moer legal stuff im digging up, this in relation to robots/spiders

    Question: What are the "trespass to chattels" claims some companies or website owners have brought?

    Answer: Some Internet companies have claimed that unauthorized use of their servers, such as unsolicited email or robot-generated hits to websites, are a "trespass" to those servers by depriving the owners of the full use of their machines. eBay won an injunction stopping Bidder's Edge from automatically spidering the eBay site to generate auction comparison listings, because the robotic crawler used eBay system resources. The caselaw is far from settled in this area, and some commentators argue that technical means to block the use are more appropriate than legal action.

    check this out too
    http://www.tomwbell.com/NetLaw/Ch06.html

    [This message was edited by BigTop on September 21, 2003 at 10:38 PM.]

    [This message was edited by BigTop on September 21, 2003 at 10:44 PM.]

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador swampy_webber's Avatar
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    The problem is that sometimes the 'legality' of something isn't truly determined until the law is tested in court. Many of these laws I believe are still grey areas because of the lack of court time they've actually seen. Although copyright violations and the like have been tested and proven, the new twists the Internet has produced haven't necessarily.

    Could be wrong, it's just something I've seen a good bit in my 'other' job.



    You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus.
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  3. #3
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    sure, but most laws have already been written and only need to be applied to this specific medium.

    it shouldnt be that hard. the law is the law.

    as we all know, much of the law is based upon numerous technicalities....

  4. #4
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    "it is ILLEGAL for a company to create a software or any other product or means to ALTER in any way, your website which is in fact YOUR property."

    What software is altering websites?

    "The successful man is the average man, focused."

  5. #5
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    For two years I've been saying cut the sh*t about (C) or TM infringement crap ... some are still on this wing ... fine look at U-Haul!

    The 10 consolidated (including tiger) cases have an "expert witness" because of this things will be different, they ain't stupid like their predecessors, in this matter!

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


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  6. #6
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Yes, but a BHO or other parasitic plugin on a visitor's PC does *not* alter your web site in any way - it changes the *rendering* of the web site on the visitor's PC.. usually something they agreed to when they installed the crapware that's causing the problem.

    The problem is a lot more subtle than the "web site defacement" your attorney seems to think it is.

    But in any case, it needs to be proven in law and my impression of the US legal system is that logical argument does not always prevail, so it really matters what the judge thinks and how many of *them* understand technology issues?

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  7. #7
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    "it is ILLEGAL for a company to create a software or any other product or means to ALTER in any way, your website which is in fact YOUR property."

    If that statement were in reference to software that cracked your webserver and actually permanently altered the html code in your files, then yeah, I could buy that.

    But in reference to software voluntarily installed by a user on their own computer (whether parasite or Nortons' blocking links), and only altering the appearance/operation of the site on that user's computer, then it's a rather naive statement.

    What about browsers? You build your site for 800x600 but my display isn't set to that. I set my browser to disable javascript which you have used in your pages. I set my machine up to block pop-ups. I set my browser to ignore colours, to not load pictures.. all those personal preference things that customers do, as is their right when using their own machine, are illegal? Ain’t gonna fly.

  8. #8
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    How would a disclaimer stand up that stated that no software may alter the rendering of your site, outside of the normal browser functions? I guess that would apply to the end-user...can it be worded to apply to the company who wrote or distributed the software?

    CarSites.us - Free promotion for your automotive-related sites!

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  9. #9
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    Not a legal arguement I'll be devoting resources to considering that a judge has already thrown that arguement out in the form of a summary dismissal. THAT speaks volumes more than any lawyer may say. Perhaps the attorney you spoke to should keep himself informed of the latest opinions coming out of the Federal courts in this area before offering his own opinion.

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  10. #10
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BLFH (Ms. B):
    THAT speaks volumes more than any lawyer may say. Perhaps the attorney you spoke to should keep himself informed of the latest opinions coming out of the Federal courts in this area before offering his own opinion.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    no, my attorney is making the suggestion that you explore every technicality of the law that can apply here.

    are you suggesting that since one company lost a lawsuit in a somewhat (but not really)related case that no one could sue anyone else with a chance to win??

    errrr, ok.....

    boy if that were the case, the courts should be an empty place!

    i guess the parasites and networks et al have no cause to worry about you guys being a big threat! no wonder this stuff still occurs!

    two years and counting.... nothing much has changed... commissions stolen daily... billions of impressions served...

    *baffled*

  11. #11
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    could the end-users (consumers) file class-action lawsuits against the parasites for making defective products (programs) that harm (cause malfunctions) their computers?

  12. #12
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    I'm not sure what you'all are talking about but something did catch my eye about eBay.

    That other company was spidering eBay to use for it's own business, to display compairson auctions. I can understand why eBay would not be happy with that.

    But wait a second. Google and every other search engine spiders your web site. They do it for the purpose of making money for themselves. It just also happens to benefit the web site owner as well.

    So I guess it's ok to spider my site as long as I'm benefitting from it??? It's a very small distinction between what's ok and what's not ok.

    As far as the parasites, I think you need to concentrate on the TOS of the Merchant. They agreeded to a contract and if they violate it, there is your legal ground.

    Parasites are installed with the concent, I use that loosley, of the PC's owner. They are not accessing nor modifying YOUR web site in any way. They are changing the destination of the visitor once they click on a link that takes them off of your web site.

    SJohnson@NO_Spam_ClickMagazine.Net
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