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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    I haven't posted an opinion about anonymity, only food for thought comments. Here's my take.

    Members will necessarily need to provide identifying information in order to join, if for no other reason than to remit payment.

    I do believe that new members should be "validated" to prevent infiltration and that only one membership be allowed per entity per category.

    There will be a certain amount of trust required that your identifying information will not be divulged by the organization.

    There's no reason that your identifying information should be posted publicly.

    Here's the one that I struggle with...

    It seems that within the organization a member would/should have access to the membership roster. If identifying information is included, the leaks would be uncontrollable. So I suggest that rather than a list containing hundreds(thousands) of "anonymous" entries, perhaps a first name (or handle) only. But somewhere along the line you may be required to divulge, depending on actions of the org.



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  2. #2
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomers
    I do believe that new members should be "validated" to prevent infiltration
    Infiltration? Please elaborate ... this scares me, are we at war? Do we have anything to hide?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boomers
    and that only one membership be allowed per entity per category.
    OK how do you propose Loxly being handled ... which ever is most expensive? And then she'll have all the respective rights and see the benefits of all sep sections? If so why doesn't an aff donating the same dolar amount have access to that info also? Or should they? I'm just trying to figure out th elogic and heirachy ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boomers
    It seems that within the organization a member would/should have access to the membership roster.
    Why would they need to? To market? To recruit? That isn't the purpose of the org, so there is no need for anyone to access a roster unless the people listed on such a roster specifically opted into to it. --- think no call list ... except I'm saying there is no list, by default.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    Infiltration? Please elaborate ... this scares me, are we at war? Do we have anything to hide?
    Since membership will be open to anyone, unscrupulous players could "buy" multiple votes to sway actions. Perhaps infiltration was not an appropriate term.
    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    OK how do you propose Loxly being handled ... which ever is most expensive? And then she'll have all the respective rights and see the benefits of all sep sections? If so why doesn't an aff donating the same dolar amount have access to that info also? Or should they? I'm just trying to figure out th elogic and heirachy ...
    Per entity per category, meaning one entity may join under multiple categories (aff, AM/OPM, merchant), but not the other way around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    Why would they need to? To market? To recruit? That isn't the purpose of the org, so there is no need for anyone to access a roster unless the people listed on such a roster specifically opted into to it. --- think no call list ... except I'm saying there is no list, by default.
    Frankly, yes. I know that's not the purpose of the org, but why shouldn't it be a benefit of membership. It would need to be voluntary information as discussed above. Industry organizations typically encourage interaction among the members (networking) for mutual gain. Any business association I've been a member of has always maintained a member roster available to the membership.



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  4. #4
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomers
    Per entity per category, meaning one entity may join under multiple categories (aff, AM/OPM, merchant), but not the other way around.
    I'm sorry .. I don't see how this is different than what I suggested ... use Loxly as the example please ... it should clear it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boomers
    Industry organizations typically encourage interaction among the members (networking) for mutual gain.
    Right, it will allow for that, absolutely, but only with opt-in methods to protect those that wish to remain anonymous or behind the scenes so no list per se, but many other avenues of interaction.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    NOTE: Additional comment about this on next page...
    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    I'm sorry .. I don't see how this is different than what I suggested ... use Loxly as the example please ... it should clear it up.
    I believe you mentioned earlier that an entity with multiple facets could join as whichever member type they desired and would enjoy the benefits of that member type [and none above it]. Since I have no idea at this point what the benefits will be for any given member type, I can't really speak to this. And with the logistics of creating a three tier membership, it may be too burdensome in the beginning to develop. My point really was that an entity should not be able to "buy" votes anymore than an individual. If Loxly joins as an affiliate, she would have affiliate privileges, whatever those may be, if as a merchant, additional privileges of a merchant.

    Seems that this is getting way too complicated at this stage.



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  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    To expand on this, perhaps a multifaceted business such as Loxly's should be required to join at their highest level with one membership only.



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  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomers
    To expand on this, perhaps a multifaceted business such as Loxly's should be required to join at their highest level with one membership only.
    You wrote this as I was typing...

    ...but, what levels? Like, affiliates have a set of rights or privledges, and merchants get all those plus more? And OPMs would get all the rights and privledges of an affiliate plus a merchant plus more? And at the highest level... that trumps everyone? That's not at all how I see this being organized. Members would be assigned to different categories for management, dues and voting purposes (as I said in my last post, if there are votes that only affect one category and no others).

    If it's going to be a tiered system, we're going to have problems.
    Daniel M. Clark
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  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    Complicated [at this stage] in terms of getting into the nuts and bolts of the org. Seems a little premature to me. I believe Loxly's situation is the execption rather than the rule, and we haven't even come up with the rules yet to be able to define the exceptions.



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  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HecticDMC
    You wrote this as I was typing...

    ...but, what levels? Like, affiliates have a set of rights or privledges, and merchants get all those plus more? And OPMs would get all the rights and privledges of an affiliate plus a merchant plus more? And at the highest level... that trumps everyone? That's not at all how I see this being organized. Members would be assigned to different categories for management, dues and voting purposes (as I said in my last post, if there are votes that only affect one category and no others).

    If it's going to be a tiered system, we're going to have problems.
    Agreed. The premise was based on a comment by Haiko about different benefits for different memberships. I don't know what that entails. But it sounded as if the higher priced memberships will enjoy greater benefits. Yes, that creates many questions/issues. And hence, the complication I mentioned...



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  10. #10
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    I specifically use Loxly ... on purpose, I don't need to get into why ... but it is a real issue. As such, I'd rather address it now than later.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
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    Okay, I see where you're coming from, Boomers. This is the part where we figure out the structure. I'm curious too what Haiko's thoughts are on the membership categories/tiers/whatever. My thoughts are that they should absolutely not be tiered, they should be categorized with no group having more rights/benefits/powers than any other.
    Daniel M. Clark
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  12. #12
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HecticDMC
    My thoughts are that they should absolutely not be tiered, they should be categorized with no group having more rights/benefits/powers than any other.
    Right. Voting wise I see a mimic of the electoral college system. If you will ...

    All affs votes are equal and all vote on the issue, the resulting decision is considered the the aff vote. Same for the other devisions, merchants, networks, and other.

    These individual votes per section is then put forth and tailed with the executive board's vote, the end result is the decision.

    This way no one group control the vote by sheer number of members.

    Thoughts?

    I don't want to get into benefits yet ... that's down the road.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    Right. Voting wise I see a mimic of the electoral college system ... if you will ...

    All affs votes are equal and all vote on the issue, the resulting decision is the aff vote. Same for the other devisions, merchants, networks, and other.

    These compiled votes are then put forth and tailed with the executive board's vote and the end result is the decision.

    This way no one group control the vote by sheer number of members.

    Thoughts?

    I don't want to get into benefits yet ... that's down the road.
    YES 100%



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  14. #14
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    So in my example of Loxly, she could have her vote counted in three seperate divisions but it wouldn't really skew any one portion of the vote, but it would behoove her to be in all three divisions because of the benefits that each respective division affords her and it brings in more monies to the org in member dues.

    But, she wouldn't have to be anything more than a $1 min affiliate to vote.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    Right. Voting wise I see a mimic of the electoral college system. If you will ...
    Interesting that you mentioned the electoral college. I was pondering this very thing this morning. The electoral college is one of the most brilliant mechanisms devised by our founding fathers. We would do well to incorporate mechanisms to ensure fairness and checks/balances in the "constitution" of the AV...

    Are we due for another thread split here?



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  16. #16
    http and a telephoto
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    Actually there are a lot more people than you think that would fit into at *least* 2 levels of membership

    I agree that being in more than one level shouldn't give *additional* votes. It should give one vote in whatever level is being voted on. So if it is a vote that the entire membership is voting on, no matter how many "sections" I belong to, I get *one* overall vote.

    But if there are votes in *specific* sections only, then belonging to that section allows a vote in that area.

    I would also then propose that each *company* only gets one vote? Or if there are 5 people registered under the OPM company of (just an example!) Rodriguez Consulting, do they get one vote each? Or one vote per company?
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  17. #17
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loxly
    It should give one vote in whatever level is being voted on. ... no matter how many "sections" I belong to, I get *one* overall vote.
    I definitely don't agree. It's not like it's really going to make a huge impact, and it does add value to the diff levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by loxly
    I would also then propose that each *company* only gets one vote? Or if there are 5 people registered under the OPM company of (just an example!) Rodriguez Consulting, do they get one vote each? Or one vote per company?
    One vote in the OPM category. More if they also reg'ed as affs ... then they'd vote in that cat.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    Yes, one vote per membership (by category) regardless...



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  19. #19
    Believe knight01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    Right. Voting wise I see a mimic of the electoral college system. If you will ...

    All affs votes are equal and all vote on the issue, the resulting decision is considered the the aff vote. Same for the other devisions, merchants, networks, and other.

    These individual votes per section is then put forth and tailed with the executive board's vote, the end result is the decision.

    This way no one group control the vote by sheer number of members.

    Thoughts?

    I don't want to get into benefits yet ... that's down the road.
    As I post this I know it will likely raise some ire, but I need to say it.

    If this is the Affiliate Voice, why do merchants, opms etc... get to vote at all?

    I certainly see the importance of having merchants and opms and networks and etc.. as partners in the association. They offer perspective and a sounding board, but they should not be able to participate in actual voting in an association that is geared to give affiliates a voice. Giving them an equal voice in the association through voting dilutes the purposes of an affiliate focused organization. IMHO.
    Someday starts today
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  20. #20
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Right, I never said affiliate only ... I don't think that is wise. Not just for financial feasibility reasons, but for industry reasons as well - there is no need to separate it even more.

    The affiliate voice, is heard loud and clear, not by two reps on a board, but as a collective and cohesive voting unit ... we are building this org from the bottom up making sure that all aspects, opinions and views are equal while ensuring the affiliate voice first and foremost is protected.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    The AV is object (objective) oriented and thus needs collaboration of all facets of affiliate marketing to be effective. This could not happen without the vote/input of each.



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  22. #22
    http and a telephoto
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.

    The affiliate voice, is heard loud and clear, not by two reps on a board, but as a collective and cohesive voting unit ... we are building this org from the bottom up making sure that all aspects, opinions and views are equal while ensuring the affiliate voice first and foremost is protected.
    Exactly.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  23. #23
    Antisocial Media Expert ProWebAddict's Avatar
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    Sorry to jump in but I'm behind on the whole discussion.

    What exactly would there be to vote on that it requires so much discussion on how many votes one gets?

    Fees?

    The logo?

    Who can join?

    What the stationary looks like?

    Should we sue this person?

    I can see the red tape cropping up already.

    I guess I'm still in that "fight bad legislation as thats the most important issue right now" mindset and I wouldn't think that would require a group vote.

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador Daniel M. Clark's Avatar
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    It's simply future-proofing, I think. Better to set things up now than try to go back and do it later after things get running. Better to think of as many possibilities now than get burned later.
    Daniel M. Clark
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  25. #25
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    Here's how I was looking to address that ...

    Affiliate cumulative Vote 1
    Merchant cumulative Vote 1
    OPM cumulative Vote 1
    Consultants & Other cumulative Vote 1
    AV Board (aff centric) cumulative Vote 1
    ----------------------------------------
    5 total votes to decide on an issue.

    Fair, yet ensuring Aff voice protect and heard... remember Rule #1 - There is no affiliate marketing without Affiliates

    Copied from http://forum.abestweb.com/showpost.p...&postcount=122
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

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