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  1. #1
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    I found this in another thread and noticed there wasnt much response to it...

    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...1&m=3696029713

    Now thats pretty ugly!

    two years and counting.... nothing much has changed... commissions stolen daily... billions of impressions served...

  2. #2
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    I originally posted that, and never posted their response to the initial claim that sparked it off... I dug it up and here it is below:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Mr. [me] is not currently nor has he ever been a customer or merchant of Ebates. Secondly, the information he has on our download product is extremely inaccurate. I am attaching the information on our Moe Money Maker product which also explains how to uninstall it. The Moe Money Maker Reminder Program is a system designed to assist you in earning rebates. When downloaded to your PC, Moe will appear when you access a site that is an affiliated merchant of Ebates. A popup will appear displaying the savings you could earn by going through Ebates to make this purchase. If you have the "Auto-Redirect" option activated, Moe will automatically redirect you to the merchant site within our Ebates frame, thus allowing you to earn rebates through your Ebates account. Please remember that Moe Money is a reminder program and is not to be used as the primary method to shop through Ebtes. We always suggest that you first check the Ebates site to see if the merchant is affiliated with us, then access the merchant through our shopping portal to earn rebates. Please remember to start and complete your order in one session. View our FAQs page (http://www.ebates.com/big_n.jsp) for additional details. If you would like to view a merchant without the "Auto Redirect" feature, simply click your browser's "back" button when the Ebates frame appears and you will acce3ss the merchant directly. Please remember that if you want to earn a rebate for your purchases, you will need to access the merchant through our site (www.ebates.com) in order to earn savings. If you would like to turn off the "Auto Redirect" feature, simply go to a non-Ebates merchant (such as www.costco.com). The Moe Money maker will pop up, at which point click on "edit preferences" and uncheck the "automatically reward rebates for all my purchases" checkbox. Then click "submit". This way, you will now only receive a simple reminder popup and not be redirected to the merchant site within an Ebates frame. If you would prefer to uninstall the Moe Money Maker Reminder PRogram completely, go to your "Add/Remove Programs" section in your Control Panel. The application will be listed as "Ebates Moe Money Maker". Please delete that application in that order to remove Moe Money. Once this has been done, please go to the "Programs Folder" on the "C" drive of your computer. Then find the folder titled, "Ebates". Right-click on that folder, and select "delete". You can then restart your computer, and expect the Moe Money Maker to be removed. Ebates will not entertain a settlement of any kind with this individual. His claims are baseless, slanderous and obviously uninformed. As with all BBB complaints, if I can be of further help, please let me know. Regards Burk J. Gingerich VP of Operations Ebates<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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  3. #3
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    This was my response to the above, which then led to what I posted in the link above...

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Better Business Bureau,

    Re: Response to letter dated January 28, 2003

    First of all, let me point out that I never stated that I was a customer of eBates, nor would I ever be with their unscrupulous business practices. As I made perfectly clear in my complaint, I am a webmaster who participates with great enthusiasm in the affiliate marketing industry. eBates did not deny my claims that they were involved in the practice of overwriting affiliate code/cookies, thus stealing the commissions I earned. This is the issue, not how complicated and convoluted their uninstallation instructions are. The fact remains that their "Ebates Moe Money Maker" contains software that, unbeknownst to those who have foolishly installed it, spawned popups that only serve to steal the money webmasters like myself have worked so hard for. They claimed to have removed that functionality; however, they’ve offered false promises in the past & cannot be trusted.

    The response from eBates to the Better Business Bureau, which was forwarded to my attention, demonstrates their lack of concern for other affiliates. They would not stand by and let another company steal their money, which only further shows their hypocrisy and the mocking nature of their company. They have spoken publicly about how their software works and how they promised to change their ways; however, the response I received directly contradicts the truth. As expected, the response also included remarks meant to discredit my claims in a very childish nature. They obviously thought their response was going to put an end to what's coming their way. How dare they treat the BBB this way? How dare they steal money and lie. How dare they defame my character to save theirs?

    Secondly, the blatant lies and inaccuracies that eBates has told the Better Business Bureau is, alone, grounds for lawsuits and removal of their name from good standing, if it ever was. I invite the Better Business Bureau to peruse the information posted at WWW.PARASITEWARE.COM >> Please click on "Enter the Discussions" at the bottom of the page, and then find the eBates forum. There you will find absolute proof that will, without the slightest doubt, show how eBates has cheated the affiliate community and hundreds of online merchants out of money they did not earn. They do not build sites rich in content. They do not pre-sell customers on products. They simply wait for a customer to come from a site like mine, and they would overwrite the cookie set by my site, and steal the sale from webmasters like myself.

    I would like to direct the attention of the BBB to Item 10 of eBates Privacy Policy:
    "10) Integrity
    "Having represented the People of the State of California collectively for ten years in a never ending fight for justice, the founders of Ebates know that your word is who you are and integrity is the cornerstone of any enterprise whether public, private or personal. As such, you have our word that we will protect your privacy and safeguard your shopping at all times."

    This is almost as laughable as their response to my claims. Since when has integrity included theft?
    According to Webster's:
    "Integrity = in·teg·ri·ty Pronunciation Key (n-tgr-t) n.
    1.Steadfast adherence to a strict moral or ethical code.
    2.The state of being unimpaired; soundness.
    3.The quality or condition of being whole or undivided; completeness."

    If eBates has such tremendous integrity, why did so many merchants drop them from their affiliate programs? Why are companies ending their business relationships with eBates? If their ethics are so upstanding, why are they constantly threatened with lawsuits?

    Finally, by stating that my "claims are baseless, slanderous, and obviously uninformed" is in itself baseless, libelous, and very uneducated. Only verbally spoken defamation of character is slander. My claims were typed & published, and proven to be true. I also did not defame eBate's character. They did that to themselves by displaying their lack of business ethics. Mr. Gingerich has libeled himself. I will still accept a settlement, despite the attack on my knowledge and that of the BBB, who should not be so lenient.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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  4. #4
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    and, finally, their response to that, as copied from the thread linked to above...

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>By way of background, we launched our discount shopping portal over four years ago. We offer a free service that pays cash back when users buy items from Merchants we promote. The Merchant pays us a sales commission for sending them a customer, which we give back (either in part or entirely) to the user. The user benefits in an obvious way (they get cash back). The Merchant benefits by getting a motivated, eager shopper who buys their products. Similarly to other discount shoppers (coupons, bulk purchases, seasonal sales, etc), our customers, knowing they are getting a better-than-normal deal, buy in larger amounts and with greater frequency than a ‘normal’ customer. And this increased purchase behavior does not cost the Merchant any more than it would had the sale come through any other Affiliate site, like the one Mr. XXXXX may operate since our discount comes from the sales commission other sites normally keep. We are termed ‘Affiliates’ of the Merchants we partner with, as are other partners who operate through the same technology providers (there are a few of these technology providers: LinkShare, BeFree, Commission Junction, and Performics are the biggest of the so-called Affiliate Aggregators).

    Not surprisingly, we had many complaints similar to Mr. XXXXX’s when we first launched. These complaints are founded in frustration at having a less-valuable offering to the consumer, not in any unethical or illegal business practices on our part. They claimed it was unfair that we gave back some of our commission, and that we’d be stealing sales from people who kept all of their commissions. It was argued that our lack of concern for other Affiliates who needed to keep all of the commissions amounted to unfair competition. We are under no legal obligation to have ‘concern’ for other Affiliates of our Merchants. To the contrary, they are competitors. Lack of concern is not, to my knowledge, grounds for a complaint to the BBB. Nor is innovation in marketing deemed illegal or unfair. As we grew into the marketplace, we have become the largest traffic and sales driver for most of our Merchants, and we have spawned dozens of similar discount-oriented shopping portals. What used to be novel four years ago is now an accepted marketing method.

    As stated in the user agreement, download agreement, and elsewhere, the Ebates Moe Money Maker (MMM) is a small piece of software that users can choose to install as part of our service. Users can use our service without downloading the software. They can also easily uninstall the software at any time in any of the normal fashion that software is uninstalled. The software was developed in order to address our principal customer concern: forgetting to use our site, and missing out on the discount we would have provided. Customers would then be forced to return the items they ordered, and re-order them through u in order to earn the discount. The software is for users who wish to make ALL of their qualifying purchases through us. If a user arrives at a Merchant with whom we work, the software will detect this and route the user through Ebates, alerting them that they are now saving the amount we offer our customers. The user is alerted each time the software acts that they are saving through Ebates. They are free to uninstall the software, or to turn it off at any time, and shop through another portal.

    Users choose whether or not to install the software. They choose to install it because they simply want to save as much as possible. Mr. XXXXX may choose to assert that our customers “foolishly installed it”, but this is a groundless claim. We have further been deemed entirely in compliance by all of the Affiliate Aggregators who provide the underpinnings for sites like Ebates and Mr. XXXXX’s sites in working with Merchants (BeFree, LinksShare, Performics, Commission Junction, etc), and who police the workings of software that impacts how customers reach their Merchants. All of our major Merchants are overjoyed at the ability we have to reach customers through MMM. Dell, BN, Staples, American Express, and over 600 other Merchants all agree that we market in an ethical and legal fashion. We can provide contacts at each Affiliate Aggregator should you desire.

    The only people who are unhappy with MMM (and our service in general) are competitors like Mr. XXXXX. We had half a dozen of our 600 Merchants (all in the bottom 5% of our sales) leave due to the complaining of people like Mr. XXXXX. Almost all of these have since come back to our site and offer discounts through us as before. Mr. XXXXX only argument for us lacking integrity is that Merchants dropped us, and that we have been threatened with lawsuits. A Merchant may or may not agree with our marketing methods, and are free to choose whether or not to work with us. This does not prove a lack of integrity. Neither does being threatened with lawsuits.

    Mr. XXXXX is no doubt aware of the intellectual inadequacy of his claim in this regard.

    Ultimately, the customer is free to choose whether or not to purchase from a site like that Mr. XXXXX may operate, which keeps all of the sales commission forwarded by a Merchant, or whether to purchase through a site like Ebates, which cuts them in on our commission. Our customers are also free to choose to download a tool that reminds them to shop through the portal of their choosing. But since Mr. XXXXX knows that this puts him at a disadvantage (i.e. renders his service is inferior), he must rely on baseless claims that we are ‘stealing’ sales. We do not steal commissions. We save our customers millions of dollars per month. Our member growth has been explosive, as has our list of affiliated Merchants.

    Absent any precedent for MMM or any other part of our service being illegal, it is our position that Mr. XXXXX statements are indeed libelous. He has accused us of stealing money. He has communicated this accusation to other persons. I’d invite Mr. XXXXX to show any precedent to establish that our service is illegally taking anything from anyone. He may not like our service, he may not like our software, and he may be at a competitive disadvantage, but this is because we offer a service that people want. Our legal counsel, Fenwick and West also agree that Mr. XXXXX is engaging in an apparent attempt to defame our company in an effort to hurt our business. One cannot legally accuse a company of theft without legal grounds to do so. We have initiated legal action against several infringing parties in the past, no doubt this will be necessary in the future as well. As you in the BBB know better than anyone, a company lives or dies on its reputation. Our good reputation in the industry and with our customers and Merchants is something we guard aggressively, and we do not lack in resources in this regard.

    All wishful thinking of Mr. XXXXX aside, this is not an issue that should impact the BBB’s view of our company. These complaints are rooted in matters outside business reliability, customer dispute resolution, truth-in-advertising, consumer education, or charity review. Mr. XXXXX is simply trying to defame our business in any manner possible. None of his claims are meritorious, being neither customer facing issues nor based on any legal precedent or factual basis.

    Sincerely yours,
    Alessandro Isolani
    C.E.O.
    Ebates.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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  5. #5
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    What does tick me off here is their ability to claim that they are in compliance and this raises significant issues with the COC regarding "lack of disclosure".

    If parasites like ebates are going to utilize "complaince by networks" as a basis for not being unethical or whatever you want to call it, the COC should be bound to show and further communicate the number of times an application has been found out of compliance.

    I've got to think this through some more but there seems to be some issues here. The fact that ebates has used "their so called complaince" as an argument towards their favor may just require more disclosure in an open fashion.

    I urge the networks involved in the COC to consider this carefully because if it continues you can be certain that the term "compliance" and the issues involved with complaints alleging non compliance will be tested much more agressively.

    ===============================
    PeePee merchants with PooPoo policies allow our earnings to be flushed down the crapper.

    Why give parasites unlimited cookie durations and credit for sales where they divert our users and overwrite our cookies. PP merchants directly support what many consider unfair trade practices and thievery!
    ===============================

  6. #6
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If you have the "Auto-Redirect" option activated <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    And there exactly is why merchants claim they can't replicate a reported problem reported to them. That info alone tells us redirects are happening which most networks and many merchants still deny.

    ...............
    WW

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  7. #7
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    "I urge the networks involved in the COC to consider this carefully because if it continues you can be certain that the term "compliance" and the issues involved with complaints alleging non compliance will be tested much more agressively."

    Poon, THEY DON'T CARE Why do people still hang on the belief that the networks will do anything? There are videos posted here, Wayne confirmed overwriting by IGive after Gearshopper provided videos, Haiko posted videos. The COC left it up to the merchants to decide who to work with. The networks will NEVER throw out affiliates that drive sales. Shopping aps could start overwriting everything and nothing will be done. A couple of old sayings come to mind "Beating a dead horse" "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" You watch, take screenshots, video, testing etc. That's all been done, was done last year, same problems this year. Need new ideas, thinking. Do what you can now to protect your site. Frame your affiliate links, try to get your visitors to "clean" their computer, look for merchants outside the networks. Shopping ap affiliates usually only work with network merchants, take a look a look at the stores they have on their sites, 99% network merchants.

  8. #8
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    what ebates forgot to mention is how they are getting FAR MORE in commission percentages and are basically refunding the excess commissions that the regulsr affiliate never sees.

    its spectacular for cj et al because ebates as you know picks up commissions whether or not it was an affiliate-induced transaction.

    for them to suggest that tehy are so freaking generous and we are nothing more than a bunch of tight asses is almost funny, if not transparent to any dimwit that reads it.

    guys, guess what, if an AM is stupid enough to get suckered into believing the salespitch without doing even a minimal amount of research, is that someone you want to work with??

    ugh!

    ps great job celica! please forward me the bbb urls so i can make some complaints of my own!

    two years and counting.... nothing much has changed... commissions stolen daily... billions of impressions served...

  9. #9
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    Trust you well know you aren't telling me anything I don't know. That however wont prevent from making observations and exploring potential weaknesses in data presented here and I was simply pointing out what I consider to be one.

    I certainly don't have all the answers but we do learn more each day! The things learned and documented here will help us build a better case for our cause. My times attorneys will not bring up issues or even let their client testify to prevent cross examing of testimony. My point stands and I believe the comments provided which does use COC compliance as "a matter of fact" leaves a gaping hole in my opinion for exploration and discovery. Silence is not golden when parties engaging in questionable tactics can hide behide a shield of "compliance" when nothing regarding "complaince" is made available for the public or effected parties to consider.

    The BBB does not hide it's data from being made available for public consumption in it's quests to ensure businesses are acting with ethical business standards or the complaints and wrongdoings that have been reported against them. Does it make sense that the COC would not follow the same model as the BBB?

    If the COC is essentially the BBB for the affiliate arena it should be required to make summary data available for affiliates, merchants and other outside parties for them to be able to draw their own conclusions. This data is not made avaiulable and I'll continue to formally and publicly gripe about this as well as every other aspect of the COC that seems to indicate the purpose is really "non enforcement and non-action".

    The COC does appear to have been nothing but a snow job with failed responses and no actions being taken to clear violations that have been reported and documented.

    I doubt there is anyone else on this board who has lodged as many formal compliants showing the COC has not and continues to not act in the best interest of the majority of affiliates it's supposidly protect from foul play.

    I wont be shutting up regarding these issues until some of the issues are addressed and corrected. If you feel I'm beating a dead horse well.... that's my perogative to do so and you can just ignore my posts.

    ===============================
    PeePee merchants with PooPoo policies allow our earnings to be flushed down the crapper.

    Why give parasites unlimited cookie durations and credit for sales where they divert our users and overwrite our cookies. PP merchants directly support what many consider unfair trade practices and thievery!
    ===============================

  10. #10
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    "If the COC is essentially the BBB for the affiliate arena"

    That is a very big stretch. I don't think you can compare the 2, plus the BBB actually works. I think we agree on most things, but i don't think relying on the COC and networks will get affiliates anywhere.

  11. #11
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    You also know full well I don't completely rely on them.

    ===============================
    PeePee merchants with PooPoo policies allow our earnings to be flushed down the crapper.

    Why give parasites unlimited cookie durations and credit for sales where they divert our users and overwrite our cookies. PP merchants directly support what many consider unfair trade practices and thievery!
    ===============================

  12. #12
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    Back to topic...here's the link for eBates on BBB's web site:
    http://www.goldengatebbb.org/common....k&compid=20543

    Unbelievably, it states,
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>BBB Reliability Report
    Ebates Shopping.Com, Inc.
    5 Thomas Mellon Cir
    San Francisco, CA 94134
    (Yahoo Map)

    General Information

    Original Business Start Date: April 1999
    Principal: Burk Gingerich, Vice President
    Number of Employees: 27
    Phone Number: (415) 508-2300
    Membership Status: Yes
    Type-of-Business Classification: Shopping Services-Internet
    Website Address: www.ebates.com

    The information in this report has either been provided by the company, or has been compiled by the Bureau from other sources.

    BBB Membership

    This company is a member of this Better Business Bureau. This means it supports the Bureau's services to the public and meets our membership standards.These standards encourage truth, honesty, and fairness in the market place, as well as responsive customer service.

    Program Participation

    This company participates in the BBB CARE program. This means it has agreed to use special complaint handling procedures including mediation and arbitration, if necessary and within limits, to resolve disputes.

    Nature of Business

    This company offers online shopping services.

    Customer Experience

    Based on BBB files, this company has a satisfactory record with the Bureau. To have a 'Satisfactory Record' with the Bureau, a company must be in business for at least 12 months, properly and promptly address matters referred to it by the Bureau, and be free from an unusual volume or pattern of complaints and law enforcement action involving its marketplace conduct. In addition, the Bureau must have a clear understanding of the company's business and no concerns about its industry.


    The company's size, volume of business, and number of transactions may have a bearing on the number of complaints received by the BBB. The complaints filed against a company may not be as important as the type of complaints, and how the company handled them. The BBB generally does not pass judgment on the validity of complaints filed.

    The following data concerns complaints processed by the BBB since the firm's file was opened or over the last 36 months, whichever is less. Ebates Shopping.Com, Inc. has had 21 complaints. 19 were closed as Resolved. 2 were Reasonably explained to the Bureau's satisfaction.

    Additional Information

    Additional Doing-Business-As Names: EBates.Com
    Additional TOB Classifications: Computers-Internet Services



    Report as of 09/27/2003
    Copyright 2003 Better Business Bureau®, Inc. Inc.

    As a matter of policy, the Better Business Bureau does not endorse any product, service or company. BBB reports generally cover a three-year reporting period, and are provided solely to assist you in exercising your own best judgment. Information contained herein is believed reliable but not guaranteed as to accuracy. Reports are subject to change at any time.

    The Better Business Bureau reports on members and non-members. Membership in the BBB is voluntary, and members must meet and maintain BBB standards. If a company is a member of this BBB, it is stated in this report.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    specifically, "This means it supports the Bureau's services to the public and meets our membership standards.These standards encourage truth, honesty, and fairness in the market place, as well as responsive customer service." and "Based on BBB files, this company has a satisfactory record with the Bureau."

    ...which leads me to believe that the BBB is useless. We need a COC policy & enforcement that is much better than this (to quote Haiko) Horse Hockey!!

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  13. #13
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Shopping aps could start overwriting everything and nothing will be done. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Actually it's not true that nothing is done; some parasites are indeed disciplined or dumped but it's done quietly and rarely gets on the radar here at ABW or anywhere else.

    I recently saw some evidence, from a source I consider reliable, that CJ has been reversing commissions -- at the network level, not the merchant level -- because of compliance issues. I'm not sure what happens to the commission in such cases, but at least the parasite didn't get it. The parasite in question was not one I've seen mentioned on ABW (or if it was I missed it).

    I think we'd all agree that more could and should be done, but as a point of accuracy (which means our own credibility is at stake) we cannot say that "nothing" is being done. Some things are being done, at least by CJ.

    This is war, folks, and accurate words are our best weapon.

    Elisabeth Archambault

  14. #14
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> This is war, folks, and accurate words are our best weapon. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You never cease to amaze and inspire me. You are so on target and when you write things, they are so well put. I hope to be like you when I grow up!


    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    LISTEN! CJ don't give no whistles no more! I can hear the music of another piper!

  15. #15
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    Happypoon, Celicaphile, Trustno1, Ms.B, Haiko and others, who have valiantly fought this battle for years on the networks complacency in allowing theftware affiliates to operate undetected as Duper affiliates and merchants, time to take the gloves off. The Politics of Election 2004 dictates perked media interests in anything smelling of conspiracies against the interests of the voters.

    Notice the the National Media, lawyers, Judges, DA's, politicians, even Political party candidates thirsting after subjects, that were unimportant 2 years ago, to win over voter approval or line their campaign or personal pockets. Spam -P2P networks -Terrorist funding sources -Privacy information data mining for profit -Identity Theft -Child Porn/Pedophilia -Telemarketing and all forms of unethical Gorilla direct marketing practices that F*ck over voters are subjects of interest this year in the mass media.

    Here is what will work to our advantage. No BHO provider, network or those pushing merchants into adopting theftware data mining practices will be able to combat the actual penetrating of their hidden daily operations if we follow this plan. I can openly advocate these steps work based upon the results of making 8 simple web sites for some DA/Attorney General cybercrime units that led last year to 5800 USA and 3100 European arrests of Child Porn sex rings last year. Same type operations, this time with CIA-FBI-Interpol cooperation led to identifying and serving 258,000 arrest warrants worldwide this last week.

    Their Achilles heel is they are all driven by greed, just like sex perverts are driven by lust. They have to grow their base of BHO theftware operators to infect or re-infect shoppers systems to rape merchants for commissions. The underworld of affiliate S/W application marketing has to act in concert, behind Gated Communities, in an environment of smoke and mirrors.

    He's what will work and the greed mongers won't know what hit them during the lust for money this shopping season.

    1. Each pissed USA based affiliate can easily establish contact to their States Attorney General Office or a large local city DA's office like Mr Spitzer in NYC. Remember these are Politicians folks, all with CyberCrime units, operating in a media shark 2004 campaign media feeding frenzy.

    2. The potential of uncovering PONZI schemes (remember media flack with CyberRebates), phony charity fronts, phony incent rewards programs, privacy violations fueling Identity thieves, CC thieves, spammers and telemarketers or potential fronts for funding terrorism all via the hidden operations of BHO's will get their attention real quick. Investigating Drive-by install and P2P bundling techniques are a hot subjects due to the Pedophile busts.

    3. Present this plan of attack run by their CyberCrimes units. Setup some simple incent type domains or a phony or even legit charity domain. They can even purchase, like the Feds did, some suitable existing domains in the US or worldwide for cover their tracks. The contact the various BHO enablers or get introduced to Afftrac and be furnished the various tool-sets to run a BHO enabled commission pilfering operation. No BHO friendly AM will have a clue and the greed mongers, super glued to the networks, will welcome you with open arms and a welcome wagon bag full of secret tricks.

    Getting my drift. Unlike the devious and paranoid nature of Pedophiles and Child Porn peddlers, playing the greed mongering Ad Whores and commission thieves for patsies is child's play for these CyberCrime units. They operate in stealth mode, attend meetings and luncheons and even get passes to the Gated Community forums. Hell they can even come to ABW, like my States Attorney relative, to see first hand the issues and take on the former DA office staff investing in eBates and play good cop-bad cop roles. Before January 1st they will have uncovered every sleazy bag move and mapped out all the connected parties to issue subpoenas to the network and Afftrac stats to build indictments and get this into the mainstream media.

    Nothing like exposing major brand merchants and the affiliate networks as monitizers and enablers of Duper spammers - spyware/adware - P2P copy-write theft and child porn sharers. We've given the networks all the rope, time and warnings necessary to amend their ways. They knew we didn't have the bucks or united power to fight this in the courts so now we individually can leverage the media's lust for news and the Law & Order prick politicians lust for power and party votes.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  16. #16
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    Mike, do you have an off switch?

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    The BBB is a joke, If your a member you just don't have a complaint. It gets resolved by them.

    Understand that each BBB is a independant franchise, their income is from membership.
    It costs about 1,000 per year to join when your a member your have two choices to have them arbitrate for you or they give you an opp to reply.

    Its is a sham, pay to get in-never get a bad rating because if you did why would you pay them next year.

    Check your local BBB and you will probally see it is owned by a corp with a name that looks like it is the BBB but it is just an independant business.

    All their reporting is .

  18. #18
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Buckworks,

    What is "wrong" with THIS picture?

    Must be nice to highlight merchants who are known parasite supporters and "get away with it"!

    [disclaimer]
    Not a flame of any sorts, just wanted to do some hunting ... Yadda ... a duck, Yadda ... a duck, Yadda ... a duck,... Well I suggest we all freaking DUCK!
    [/disclaimer]

    Continued Success,

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  19. #19
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Thoroughly thought out plans of (real) attack and action [in court] have been undertaken, there is no need to derail that. The ten in Atlanta will WIN!

    Point made (hopefully) and as such I will no longer post in this thread.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  20. #20
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Well I can still post and no one at ABW should ever again support Ms. "sellout" Buckworks for any official board duties. Nice choice for impartial CoC moderator in Wayne, and official voice of ABW in Buckworks. Even without your informative post Haiko I read between her lines during her infrequent appearances here since the Nov 2002 meeting.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador
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    Gosh, Mike, do you consider reminding people to take care to get their facts straight to be selling out?

    Selling what? To whom??

  22. #22
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Ms. "sellout" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Why did you call Elizabeth that?
    Please explain so she can respond to such.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    LISTEN! CJ don't give no whistles no more! I can hear the music of another piper!

  23. #23
    Full Member
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EcomCity.com:
    Well I can still post and no one at ABW should ever again support Ms. "sellout" Buckworks for any official board duties. Nice choice for impartial CoC moderator in Wayne, and official voice of ABW in Buckworks. Even without your informative post Haiko I read between her lines during her infrequent appearances here since the Nov 2002 meeting.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    ya'll shoulda sent ME! forget the talkin, id have been incapacitatin' some folks!. its called SELF DEFENSE!

    ya know, associating with parasitic merchants and networks is just like opening a store in the "bad side" of town. first off, its just plain dumb and makes you look like an idiot no matter what the excuse is and secondly, you just KNOW youre gonna get robbed repeatedly, so whats the point?

    two years and counting.... nothing much has changed... commissions stolen daily... billions of impressions served...

    [This message was edited by BigTop on September 28, 2003 at 01:41 AM.]

  24. #24
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BigTop:
    ... id have been incapacitatin'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    EXACTLY!

    =================

    Buckworks gave a fantastic speech, heartfelt and true!

    The problem was some of the inappropriate "claims" in it (ie. TM and (C) crapola!) that was discussed and caused a schism back then. Mas, c'est la vie ... vérité résiste, toujours.

    Light a fire where it will show a way, not where it will burn others!

    =================
    Posted only to clarify Buckworks' contribution to the Nov 7th meeting and other clarification(s).

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  25. #25
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Doesn't sound like any selling out from here. I think she is due an apology. It is her honor that has been impuned.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    LISTEN! CJ don't give no whistles no more! I can hear the music of another piper!

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