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  1. #1
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    CJ Affiliate Managers need to wake up!
    I'm really getting fed up with some of the managers who work at CJ. I had a few merchants deactivate my account in the last few days. I wrote to them and asked why and was told it was because the merchant had instructed them to delete accounts for affiliates who have not been active. Well for a start I have been very active in promoting them, I had made a very nice page and spent several hours adding links etc and all the latest links where updated daily, just because I never made a sale does not mean I'm not active. I had also placed banners on other websites as well. So now because they did not convert they decide that deleting my account is the best way to deal with this. When they say the merchant had instructed them to terminate us then that must be because the CJ affiliate manager has actually consulted them earlier and recommended they do this. These people should check my stats and they might find many of the merchants who I now make regular sales for were also merchants I had signed up with that I was not making sales for for quite some time. Just because we don't make a sale when these impatient CJ affiliate managers snap their fingers doesn't mean we won't in the future. I'm really getting fed up with placing links on my website and then getting an email further down the track telling me I have been TERMINATED!!!!! I for one won't stand for this disrespectful treatment and the more they do it the more noise I will make and let other affiliates know of how they will treat you.

    CJ affiliate managers need to wake up and stop treating affiliates like a disposable service.

    These people who work at CJ are obviously used to working with affilates who pay for traffic. Just because I don't use Adwords to bring in traffic to my website but I prefer to use the old school method of organic search doesn't mean I'm not going to bring in sales in the future.
    Last edited by glittered; July 25th, 2008 at 10:18 PM.
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  2. #2
    Full Member Amy_S's Avatar
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    Yikes, sorry that happened to you.
    I agree. My traffic is organic too, and it usually takes a long time to get a new site rolling.

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Vrindavan's Avatar
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    it is very troublesome to put up all links and then have to take down all links again. Stupid.

  4. #4
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    I posted something similar a while ago, I totally understand your frustration.

    In my case, the merchant actually did respond that I was being terminated as my stats were bringing down the published average (huh??!).

    Many of the posted comments were very helpful; http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=94482

    It's very short-sighted on their part - a content site may not generate the highest conversion rate (in my experience), but the quality profiling counts for a lot. You enhance their brand recognition through commentary & product links...

    Stay positive & take control back. Replace those same links with a new merchant.. and open a dialogue with the new merchants, explaining why you're now adding their products.

    Good luck!

  5. #5
    15 years and counting
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    The pseudo Affiliate Managers working at CJ are the ones pushing their merchants to get rid of affiliates, not the way around. They must feel good deleting affiliates. It did happen to me a few days ago and these idiots at CJ sent me back an email the next day asking me to reapply for the same program. Stupid people. Stupid network.

  6. #6
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    In my previous post, the merchant had confirmed my bump was to reset stats (culling the lower conversion rates!)... and I was invited to reapply. So they could continue using my efforts (had I reapplied), but would have deleted my non-performing stats from their program history.

    I don't like this practice one bit. It distorts the numbers, making some programs appear more successful than they actually are...

  7. #7
    Antisocial Media Expert ProWebAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glinted
    Just because I don't use Adwords to bring in traffic to my website but I prefer to use the old school method of organic search doesn't mean I'm not going to bring in sales in the future.

  8. #8
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teezone
    In my previous post, the merchant had confirmed my bump was to reset stats (culling the lower conversion rates!)... and I was invited to reapply. So they could continue using my efforts (had I reapplied), but would have deleted my non-performing stats from their program history.

    I don't like this practice one bit. It distorts the numbers, making some programs appear more successful than they actually are...
    So what you're saying is that they are dishonest as well as stupid. Go figure.

    -rematt
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  9. #9
    Merchant & ABW Ambassador
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    I still can't get my head around the termination of accounts by cj. I for one have been in aff marketing before i managed programs. I developed a site with seo traffic only. Converted with ls, etc but not cj. My account got canned. I make a decent change back then.. Yeah, i can live without cj and their mess up policy.

  10. #10
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    Yes they are really big on termination at CJ even for top affiliates, I have a good record there, made many sales over the last few years and have been a 5 bar affiliate for about a year. To them we are just numbers, they don't give a damn if we spend a lot of time promoting the program the manager oversees. Instead of these arrogant AM's wasting our time like this they should be putting the time they spend on terminating affiliates & checking logs in developing ways to help us bring in sales. I have requested RSS feeds but only a handful of CJ merchants have them because CJ have not made any interface for merchants to generate RSS feeds. Yes that is how it goes, it is much more important for them to terminate than develop and improve things for us. I have requested exclusive coupons, that can help me bring in sales but most often these requests are ignored.

    I really wish i was going to the Affiliate Summit as I would get up on stage and tell them what I think of their nasty tactics. I hope other affiliates that go speak up about this issue.
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  11. #11
    Merchant & ABW Ambassador
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    Quote Originally Posted by glinted
    I really wish i was going to the Affiliate Summit as I would get up on stage and tell them what I think of their nasty tactics. I hope other affiliates that go speak up about this issue.
    Why not try to make it to vegas in 09

  12. #12
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    thanks Eric, I'm not big on flying but I will have to get to one some day as I'm sure they would be very exciting.
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  13. #13
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    glinted, why not take your efforts and energy some place else? If they treat you like this now why would you want to work with them any more? There is a theory going around that you should only work with the top affiliates and boot the rest. Let them boot everyone and when they find your site organically ranked for their competitors what will they have to offer. The fact that you have 4-5 bars and a good EPC should be enough for them. If they were worth anything they would be asking if they could help.

  14. #14
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    Chuck, yes I most often don't want to ever work with the manager again if I find out who it is or even the merchant but it would be more productive for everyone if they just stopped doing this unnecessary practice. I'm actually trying to make them realize that each time they do this they are doing more harm than good, its bad for us affiliates to have to waste our time like this putting links up & pulling them down because of these impatient AM's. It is fair enough if they terminate us if we have done something wrong as in their terms but terminating us just because we have not made another sale for 6 months is wrong and it is completely wasting our time. I thought I should go and check my records for these three merchants and it was interesting to see I made a reasonable sale for one of these merchants only 6 months ago. The other one I have already told them I don't care less as I will just put more effort into promoting their competitor who is one of my top converters on another smaller network. The other is a travel merchant and I had only recently joined them and had plans to develop sites with them. Yes it is easy to replace some merchants for a particular website, for example a site using a merchant datafeed or banner could most often be easily replaced and if the links were not making any sales then it is probably in your best interests although it is also time lost when you might have had to put special time into developing that website to handle the particular datafeed originally for example. But I also have other websites where I want as many well known brands as I can and each time I lose a brand it is not helping. It seems there is a particular manager or maybe a couple at CJ who are just doing this as these merchants were deactivated from my account around the same day. Also I wrote to one who only wrote back with no name & no details on who they were but they were obviously working at CJ as they had said they were instructed to terminate inactive affiliates ( I should have told them I had made a sale Dec last year).

    The problem is we often never see who these people are behind their anonymous emails especially when they don't even leave a name with the email. This is not to say all CJ managers are like this as some have been very helpful in the past but there is certainly a couple that work there that seem to enjoy this as they are terminating several merchants on the same day. I imagine it is probably some young new start up apprentice who recently got a job at CJ and is now trying to impress his superiors at CJ as well as the merchant with numbers and EPC stats. They think about NOW, they want it all now and don't care about long term productivity. Besides this, as has been discussed on other threads, many affiliates & their family's will not use that service again if they have terminated you or treated you unfairly. So they lose a potential money earner as well as several customers each time they use the TERMINATE button.
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  15. #15
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    glinted, do us all a favor and send them a link to this thread and any others you can find on the subject. It may not make a difference to them but it will make you feel vindicated.

    Maybe my nexted proposed session at Affiliate Summit should be on "The Care and Feeding of your Affiliates"!

  16. #16
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    The CJ Affiliate Managers are not the brightest individuals - they don't even understand their own technology or their silly EPC statistic. I wish they would hire somebody who has taken a class in statistics - who could explain the stupidity of using an unqualified average as a predictor of a publisher's expected earnings.

    They have advertisers behaving in ways that are contrary to their own best interests - Advertisers should be trying to maximize profit, a condition that occurs when MR=MC. Instead, they are all hell bent on maximizing an average - which would be pretty funny, really if it didn't cause them to terminate publishers to do so.

    This would make a great economic thesis - "How stupidity trumps rational expectations" - Rational expectations being a school of thought based on the premise that individuals act in their own economic best interests.

    Which they clearly are not. What surprises me is that the financial programs are some of the worst offenders. I would have thought that they would have a basic understanding of financial matters. A genius at CJ actually told me that these programs rig their EPCs "So that the PPC affiliates will know how to plan their campaigns" - Imagine how much revenue they are losing from publishers who "send too many clicks". They really shouldn't care how many clicks it takes for an additional sale - it costs the advertiser nothing -and thus increases their profit - unless of course you have a group of morons running around telling people that it does cost them something.

    I have to think though that any publisher making money doing this has figured out that the EPC stat is entirely irrelevant as to whether YOU will make money in the program... right?

    S.

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador Greg Rice's Avatar
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    I don't know how someone could "rig" their EPC unless they are making their own purchases and paying themselves and CJ commissions on it.

    Affiliates who send too many clicks can quickly tank a merchant's EPC but these are affiliates who use things like click exchange schemes and posting affiliate ads on Craigslist. We're talking 3,000-5,000 clicks a day with no sales and are the only affiliates I remove for no sales.

    I know glinted and know his clicks are good so I don't understand why managers would take this action. Unless the affiliate is breaking the rules, the first step should always be to try and help, not boot.
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  18. #18
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Rice
    I don't know how someone could "rig" their EPC unless they are making their own purchases and paying themselves and CJ commissions on it.

    Affiliates who send too many clicks can quickly tank a merchant's EPC but these are affiliates who use things like click exchange schemes and posting affiliate ads on Craigslist. We're talking 3,000-5,000 clicks a day with no sales and are the only affiliates I remove for no sales.

    I know glinted and know his clicks are good so I don't understand why managers would take this action. Unless the affiliate is breaking the rules, the first step should always be to try and help, not boot.

    Well said Greg. No merchant likes to see their epc drop due to poor click through traffic quality. Many rely on epc stats when looking into a program and for that reason, some terminate affiliates who negatively impact epc as it could stop potentially productive affiliates from signing up. Yet, in many cases, if the a.m. works with affiliates to identify where and how improvements are needed, it can benefit everyone. I doubt that those who terminate non productive new affs will change their policies, but the up side is that it gives other more committed managers an opportunity to cultivate more positive relations with their online sales forces.
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