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  1. #1
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Would You Like To See More Ethical Networks?
    Hi all.

    Some existing networks have an excellent reputation for ethics such as SAS and Buy.at whilst some others appear to fail the litmus test and operate wholly or partly in an unethical manner.

    For affiliates to be happy working with a network there has to be an element of trust combined with a sound reputation.

    A number of UK based networks are now starting to dip their toes into the US market, bringing along with them their ethics and business model.

    Others are on the cards to set up shop soon.

    As affiliates, do you welcome the choice of additional networks with demonstrable ethics or does this dilute the affiliate market in the US?
    Flambi Media Limited - USA/UK/EU Affiliate Management Expertise

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    There would have to be a very compelling reason for me to select a UK network when a merchant I'm interested in is available through a state-side network. An "excellent reputation for ethics" is probably not going to be compelling enough.

    I doubt that this will "dilute the affiliate market in the US".



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  3. #3
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Besides the affiliates loving it, I really think the merchants would jump for joy as well!

    Being caught up in the terrible three's quicksand of ethics is really not a place they want their brand to be. The shut up and put on blinders is really not a way to gain confidence with affiliates.

    I think it's long overdue and no, it's not dilution - more like an injection of reality!

    -------------
    Boomers,

    I'm sure John means the UK networks would have US based offers from US based merchants (similar to buy.at and affiliatefuture.com).
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  4. #4
    Online Marketing Consultant
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    Haiko said it best. Affiliates and Merchants alike are crying out for best practice Networks. We need Networks that not only protect the Affiliates from Theft, but Merchants need to be protected and guarded so that their internal efforts are not going to be hijacked as well. It is something that is long over due.
    Adam Riemer Marketing, LLC. Online Marketing Blog and Affiliate Management Company
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  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    Maybe I should have elaborated. My biggest concern would be with the logistics of payouts; having to deal with international payments. And then there are those monetary conversion rates/fees. Wouldn't these be an issue[?] or am I just blowing smoke?



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  6. #6
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Boomer,

    Us transactions should be paid in US dollars, I'm sure they'd set up US banking relationships to pay US affiliates as such I don't think payment or currency conversions would be any concern.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  7. #7
    MasterMike HardwareGeek's Avatar
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    No I don't want to see more ethical networks.

    I want to see more ethical merchants that have a clue what their crappy networks are doing.

    Also to boomie, when I get paid from a canadian comp or british company they send a check that has written on it "Payable in USD in conjunction with Bank Name located in New York City"

  8. #8
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Ethical affiliates and ethical merchants would love an ethical network. It will take time and results before there will be a major shift. As an industry we need to educate big brands about the games that are played. Until then this is a long road to change.

    The first white page by a big brand who shows that parasites are stealing commissions from organic, PPC and type-in traffic via the affiliate channel will have a cascading effect. Few of us work together to protect all these channels for our clients.

  9. #9
    Member GoNicoFish's Avatar
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    I want to see more ethical merchants that have a clue what their crappy networks are doing.
    My thoughts exactly.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Jupp
    Hi all.

    Some existing networks have an excellent reputation for ethics such as SAS and Buy.at whilst some others appear to fail the litmus test and operate wholly or partly in an unethical manner.

    For affiliates to be happy working with a network there has to be an element of trust combined with a sound reputation.

    A number of UK based networks are now starting to dip their toes into the US market, bringing along with them their ethics and business model.

    Others are on the cards to set up shop soon.

    As affiliates, do you welcome the choice of additional networks with demonstrable ethics or does this dilute the affiliate market in the US?

    John.

    No. Not really more ethical. I'll take ethical Period for a hundred million.

    Thanks man for trying. many don't. I hope you git er done.

    Steve
    DreamLinux.net | Registered Linux User 453976 | PM me to view our sites. It's a Google thing.

  11. #11
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    There is always plenty of room for ethical networks, ethical affiliates, ethical merchants, ethical opm's, am's and forums. If I were an affiliate I too may have a minor concern about dealing with offshore merchants & networks as enforcement of payment obligations would be more difficult. In addition, support could become an issue as time zones don't make phone contact easy. But that is not to say that I would reject such a network, just have a more cautious eye on it.

    If the network sends a check stipulating US funds, that's good, provided the check is sent. However, if a merchant has not funded its account, shuts it off, or reverses commissions with a ner do well intent, there is not much one can do to go after rightfully owed commissions. But I would encourage ethical folks in every aspect of the industry to jump in.
    Join the Spicy Aprons Affiliate program on ShareASale Visit us on Facebook www.facebook.com/spicyaprons Follow us on Twitter @Spicyaprons

  12. #12
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    I think we need yet another network like a hole in the head.

    There are already lots of little-known ones and they all CLAIM they're ethical already...what's going to make another new "ethical" network stand out? It will take more than propagandizing louder than the others, to actually convince anyone who isn't a n00b...

    A number of UK based networks are now starting to dip their toes into the US market, bringing along with them their ethics
    Also I do not believe that UK residents (or companies) are inherently any more "ethical" than anyone else. They have to do a heck of a lot more than "be from the UK" to gain any credentials on that front.

    It would take a long time for a company to PROVE it's not just another BSer, and before there is enough convincing proof, it's just more clutter in the market.

  13. #13
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Good points leader, but you have to stop the sugar-coating. Just say what you really feel and drop the warm furry stuff!! I too question the assumption that European = assured ethics, but hey - we all have pride.
    Join the Spicy Aprons Affiliate program on ShareASale Visit us on Facebook www.facebook.com/spicyaprons Follow us on Twitter @Spicyaprons

  14. #14
    Not that fat. ReallyBigGuy's Avatar
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    I don't want more ethical networks, i just want the current ones to become more ethical.

  15. #15
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReallyBigGuy
    I don't want more ethical networks, i just want the current ones to become more ethical.
    A very good text from a site I trawled.

    'Pour encourager les autres' is a quote from Voltaire's 'Candide', often used in the context of political punishment and persecution. The full quote is "dans ce pays-ci, il est bon de tuer de temps en temps un amiral pour encourager les autres" ('in England, it is good, from time to time, to kill an admiral, to encourage the others'), and refers indirectly to the unfortunate fate of Admiral John Byng, who was executed in 1756 at the outbreak of the Seven Years' War.

    Byng was sent to relieve Minorca from French assault, the island being as valuable at the time as Gibraltar. A French fleet lay around the island, and it was Byng's job to seek battle and smash through; but when the time came his attack was half-hearted, and Byng soon withdrew to Gibraltar. Minorca fell, the Admiralty were appalled, and Byng was hauled back to England for court-martial. The court found that he "did not do his utmost to take, seize, and destroy the ships of the French king, which it was his duty to have engaged". He was convicted of negligence.

    The point being that when faced with networks of dubious ethics, the more networks that demonstrate positive actions may indeed shame the others into activity if faced with productive decent affiliates and merchants moving to the ethical networks.

    I take your point Leader. It's no good a network "talking the talk but can they walk the walk". It doesn't matter if they're from England or Timbuktu, doesn't mean they are better. What is better and very important is that there are excellent networks set up in the USA and that I know definitively that some UK networks that have a reputation for ethical practise do intend to set up US based offices and platforms .
    Flambi Media Limited - USA/UK/EU Affiliate Management Expertise

  16. #16
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    I think there are enough networks. There are several ethical ones already. I would like to see more merchants utilizing the ethical networks that already exist.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  17. #17
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    I think there are enough networks. There are several ethical ones already. I would like to see more merchants utilizing the ethical networks that already exist.
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
    Loving Everyone's Child Creates Magic


  18. #18
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    MC

    I just got the word today that one of the big uns is gonna go down in flames in the next few years.

    This guy was telling that many people are not gonna pay the 30% and when they can buy the software them selves.

    I guess there is gap in the value to service ratio ? He wants me to go with him.

    Done deal

    Steve
    DreamLinux.net | Registered Linux User 453976 | PM me to view our sites. It's a Google thing.

  19. #19
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    What an idividual perceives as ethical is a very subjective issue.

    You only have to read through a few recent ABW threads (eg Fake coupon links by affiliates - I've had enough. ) to see that what may be ethical to one affiliate may not appear to be so fo another affiliate.

    I would agree that one can't say that UK networks are any more or less ethical than US networks.

    In these days of globalisation it's not easy to differentiate between who is a UK network and who is a US one. Buy.at was (still is? ) a UK network but now that it is part of AOL/advertising.com does it still count as UK one? Is CJ (US) the same as CJ (UK) ? They are both I believe different legal entities?

    How much does the "face" of the network dictate/reflect the apparent ethics of a network. For instance Brian and Carolyn are (generally) perceived to be ethical and communicative on this forum. This leads to the perceptiom that SAS is in itself ethical. If other networks don't immediately reply to a forum thread to defend a supposed breach of ethics does that make the network less ethical or just shows them to be less communicative?

    In these days of the "global village" there is nothing to prevent any network become international. I would welcome SAS opening up more in the UK. But not if meant them losing personal touch and becoming just another corporate body hiding behind a corporate identity.

    Regards Bob

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