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  1. #1
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    There are several posts I really wanted to respond to in the "anyone else get" thread but I really don't want to see the thread get off track any more than it already has so with that said, I've started this.

    First, there are some very strong posts in the other thread and I commend Andy, Mike, BLF, and even Buckworks for their contributions.

    The underlying disscussion really centers around how we treat each other here and if we should or should not "speculate" and speak before we have all the facts.

    My opinons are this:
    1) We will never all concentually agree on anything.
    2) As much as it's sounds great to say "let's all work together", this has been discussed / attempted and always ends up the same way - A very few do all / most of the work while others "pretend" to be involved "on this board" and contribute very little if anything.
    3) We rarely have enough facts to make a sound conclusion and like I said even of we did have
    all the facts - we still aren't going to necessarily agree on if it's good or bad. A couple of examples are datafeeds and coupons..... People here do have have different views on these and many other subjects.

    We only find out these "differing views" when people speak thier minds. Many times the view
    will be challenged and discussions go forward. This is how I've learned at ABW and I'm sure many others as well. There seems to be only a small group of people on the front lines willing to take a position, state why and accept or debate all critisism of their views. Most people don't like their views challenged and when it is, take things personally and get their feelings hurt. Maybe thats why there is such a huge amount of lurkers who currently say very little.

    Some say this is a strength of ABW and others say it is a weakness. I say just like with everythig else - we'll never agree on it. For the ones who get affended, want to be so
    proper, feel we're vulger, wants a highly moderated board and are not willing to contribute to discussions or testing - you're probably better off somewhere else or just keeping your mouth shut. I do see many ABWer's maturing and comming of age. The number of well informed affiliates who can quickly spot and see though the massive smokescreens laid out here has increased dramatically recently IMO.

    For newbies - It's one thing to ask a question, it's something entitrely different to make a stupid statement on a subject you have little information or knowledge on. Please think, "or have knowledge of a subject" before you speak. For regulars who aren't newbies - it's very shallow "to only ask questions". If you question something you should be able to say why or be prepared to do testing if needed to see it for yourself. More people need to be willing to help test and document what I feel is a terrible injustice in regards to parasites and how networks and merchants openly embrace them. We have child labor laws yet a mature adult who happens to be an affiliate can get
    their work openly undermined at so many corners it isn't funny. Regarding testing, if it wasn't for Ms B, Haiko and only a very few others - we'd be in deep doo doo!

    I feel I pretty much know who is "really involved on this board" and who "pretends to be". I give lots of leeway to those involved here and not nearly as much to the others. This may be right or it may be wrong but at least I'm willing to document my view and you can disagree with me if you like .

    Overall, the people on this board have very little in common besides affiliate marketing and being human. Being comprised of mostly non parasitic affiliates "someone can challenge on that statement if they like", the biggest thing we do have in common is desiring an ability to compete fairly and not deal with blatent diversions or even have what the COC deems acceptable which allows for a merchant to decide if our work can be undermined once a user reaches their site. If I have an agenda here it's that this injustice is well documented with supporting data and to help with any way I can to fight it.

    Of course we also want to find out how to better compete and we consider ways in how to best maintain any competitive edge we have and we want to know what new merchants and offers are coming around to. ABW brings us back time and time again for these reasons. Some are primarily interested in parasitic information, some are primarilty interested in merchant information and some are primarily interested in other general knowledge and it seems some just want attention.

    There are many people with hidden adgendas here - don't believe everything that is said and beware of getting baited and thrown off topic. It's amazing how many people seldomly show up and try and divert the process of discussions in a topic with nothing but intentions to destroy communication which has or is likely to hit a nerve. There can be more smoke and mirrors here than a high-rise on fire in Houstin, Texas . With this said - I will continue to challenge statements made that I disagree with or question the motives of people who pop in and out at will.

    ABW is my home and I'll do what I feel necessary to protect it. Mrs Poon will tell you quick - I'm not looking for enemies nor do I want any. While I certainly agree with her I'm not nearly as sweet as she is!

    Challenges come in many forms and all are not necessarily meant to be confrentational. Some of them are even meant to be motivational not that I would necessarily ever admit it .

    ===============================
    PeePee merchants with PooPoo policies allow our earnings to be flushed down the crapper.

    Why give parasites unlimited cookie durations and credit for sales where they divert our users and overwrite our cookies. PP merchants directly support what many consider unfair trade practices and thievery!
    ===============================

  2. #2
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    This is what makes a community.

    carneol

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador DesignerWiz's Avatar
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    Poon ... very well said and I agree with you 100%.

    Ray Thomas
    DesignerWiz.com CEO
    Development Resource & Javascript Public Archive Center
    http://DesignerWiz.com
    ABW Board: Category: Programming / Coding

  4. #4
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    Nicely put, Poon.

    Speaking as someone who doesn't post often, but reads almost every item on ABW (and has learned a great deal...thanks), I'd like to venture forth with a couple of points.

    Speculating before all the facts are in is necessary (neither good nor bad), since if we waited, there would never be any discussion. The problem occurs when people weigh in as though they have all the facts and proceed to cajole and browbeat others into seeing what they perceive as self-evident truths.

    On any given subject there will probably be as many opinions as there are people and there usually isn't only ONE right one. And that should be ok. We need to respect that others may differ.

    As for why many don't post often, read the above again. (I was beginning another answer, but above seemed to fit just as well)

  5. #5
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    Poon,

    what thread are you referring to?

    As for me, being probably the most obnoxious person here (or close) at ABW, I can agree that sometimes a little more tact is needed on my part. But hell, that's just me.

    As far as community... yes, ABW is a community, just don't get it to confused with the offline world. As I have said before, we all really don't everyone here, even the ones we like to hit up on the board, and get advice from. Some folks have actually met (that's scary, imo). You probably would not want to meet me somewhere, like one of them SE seminars, or at CJU. The first thing out of my mouth would probably be, "hey! where are those little pussies from WMW? - well, well, so you want to ban me from your frigging forum, do ya?"

    All in all, ABW is pretty cool. My favorite forum! For you newbies, you can always count on Leader, and Poon to write a frigging book when posting, but they seem to have some sound advice, and opinions. take the good with the bad! lol

    -----------------------------
    Big Chuck
    Why do some affiliate networks continue to enable parasitic technology providers to STEAL my hard earned revenue?

  6. #6
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> you can always count on Leader, and Poon to write a frigging book when posting, but they seem to havge some sound advice, and opinions. take the good with the bad! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



    Seriously, it's pretty much impossible to communicate a complex point in only a short post! Would you rather read all about it at the same time or have to come back asking for clarification again, and again, and again...

    (This short post is a flukey exception to the rule.)

    It is a beautiful thing, to do nothing, and then rest afterwards.~Spanish Proverb

  7. #7
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by happypoon:
    For the ones who get affended, want to be so
    proper, feel we're vulger, wants a highly moderated board and are not willing to contribute to discussions or testing - you're probably better off somewhere else or just keeping your mouth shut. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I know where that "somewhere else" is, if interested. A place where a few ( including the mod) will look down at you if you don't go to church every week.

    <font color=blue size="1">"The most successful con artist will have you believing he is the most ethical person you will ever know."</font>

  8. #8
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    Yo Big Chuck, It's the the "anyone else get" thread in the linkshare forum I was referring to.

    I agree, I can be long winded. Was this better? LOL

    ===============================
    PeePee merchants with PooPoo policies allow our earnings to be flushed down the crapper.

    Why give parasites unlimited cookie durations and credit for sales where they divert our users and overwrite our cookies. PP merchants directly support what many consider unfair trade practices and thievery!
    ===============================

  9. #9
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> As much as it's sounds great to say "let's all work together", this has been discussed / attempted and always ends up the same way - A very few do all / most of the work while others "pretend" to be involved "on this board" and contribute very little if anything.


    Some say this is a strength of ABW and others say it is a weakness. I say just like with everythig else - we'll never agree on it. For the ones who get affended, want to be so proper, feel we're vulger, wants a highly moderated board and are not willing to contribute to discussions or testing - you're probably better off somewhere else or just keeping your mouth shut.


    There can be more smoke and mirrors here than a high-rise on fire in Houstin, Texas . With this said - I will continue to challenge statements made that I disagree with or question the motives of people who pop in and out at will.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    lol, ok - seeing as how I am from the vicinity of Houston, Texas and being a long time member, just thought I would reply....

    Having been called everything from a $75 a month hooker to a spy and being targeted in one way or another for my participation on these boards - let me first say that I was not aware I was being judged on what I do or don't do for the "cause" or whatever the flavor of the month is.

    I have paid my dues with the naysayers, sh!t stirrers and the yaya sisterhood - and if that is not enough for anyone here or elsewhere - too bad.

    As you said - I speak when I will and form my own judgements. lol, and have no intention of "keeping my mouth shut" just because someone thinks I ought to.

    Vicki

    If you lose respect for the squirrels
    you will have problems during the running... eds

  10. #10
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Nicely put Happypoon and others. This is a discussion forum where the Mod cops are very adept at non cutting off the exchange of viewpoints til they border on harmful flames.

    The thousands of subjects all pose questions or state some facit of the affiliate industry that begs discussion and clarification. From my experience the term paper posts demand careful review as the author isn't just throwing something up ...off the cuff. Then again some of the most revealing enlightning posts come when someone foregoes the spellchecker and speaks without their normal filters in place.

    Gotta love the place or it wouldn't be bookmarked.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  11. #11
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Having been called everything from a $75 a month hooker to a spy and being targeted in one way or another for my participation on these boards <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I hear ya Vicky especially on the being targeted bit. BTW I've been known to ask for a pic before. That $75 hooker line really has me wondering - LOL.

    ===============================
    PeePee merchants with PooPoo policies allow our earnings to be flushed down the crapper.

    Why give parasites unlimited cookie durations and credit for sales where they divert our users and overwrite our cookies. PP merchants directly support what many consider unfair trade practices and thievery!
    ===============================

  12. #12
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    Lots of things I agree with there, and a few things I can't resist commenting on.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I commend Andy, Mike, BLF, and even Buckworks<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Gosh, I'm overwhelmed!

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The underlying disscussion really centers around how we treat each other here and if we should or should not "speculate" and speak before we have all the facts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I rarely comment on spelling, but I can't help wondering if there's something Freudian about "disscussion".

    It's okay to speculate, as long as posters MAKE IT CLEAR when they are speculating, and subsequent comments keep the difference between fact and speculation firmly in mind. Real harm can be done when the distinction is disregarded.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Maybe thats why there is such a huge amount of lurkers who currently say very little.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yep.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>For newbies - It's one thing to ask a question, it's something entitrely different to make a stupid statement on a subject you have little information or knowledge on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That comment is not just for newbies, it's for everyone.

    Even more dangerous is an oldie who makes definitive-sounding statements that aren't in fact true.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>For the ones who get affended, want to be so proper, feel we're vulger,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Tastes do vary about what's "proper", but anyone who is concerned about EFFECTIVENESS will keep other people's sensitivities in mind.

    Example: a specific thing that someone mentioned to me privately as a reason to not take ABW seriously was the toilet language in some people's forum signatures. Poon, you won't like this, but the person specifically mentioned your sig as offensive. If you care as much about ABW as you say, you need to know that some people consider the PeePee and PooPoo in your sig to be utterly inappropriate for a business conversation, and even if you said a thousand wise and wonderful things, they wouldn't be heard because of your sig. Webmaster Mike, I'd say something similar to you about your sig. I'm not going to go on a hunt for other examples, but the issue of other people's sensitivities is something folks here ought to think about if they want to be taken seriously.

    Okay, I'll shut up for a while.

    Elisabeth Archambault

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    If people want to speculate, I have no problem with that as long as it's clearly indicated in the post as such.

    "In my opinion," "Do you suppose," "I believe," "I was told," etc., all indicate that the thoughts expressed haven't been confirmed, so they might not be completely factual as they are presented.

    Lively conversation requires some speculation, without it a conversation can be boring. We just need to make sure it's clear to others that we're speculating, and might not be presenting actual facts.

    Andy

    _______________
    <font color="red">Call the Exterminators! We've Got PARASITES!</font>

  14. #14
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    "a specific thing that someone mentioned to me privately as a reason to not take ABW seriously was the toilet language in some people's forum signatures"

    That makes no sense. Saying not to take a whole forum seriously because of some sigs.

    "The successful man is the average man, focused."

  15. #15
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Poon, you won't like this, but the person specifically mentioned your sig as offensive. If you care as much about ABW as you say, you need to know that some people consider the PeePee and PooPoo in your sig to be utterly inappropriate for a business conversation<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Poons Old Sig:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>PeePee merchants with PooPoo policies allow our earnings to be flushed down the crapper.

    Why give parasites unlimited cookie durations and credit for sales where they divert our users and overwrite our cookies. PP merchants directly support what many consider unfair trade practices and thievery!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Big Chuck's revised sig for Poon: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Piss Drinking merchants with Bullshit policies allow our earnings to be flushed down the shitter.

    Why give parasites unlimited cookie durations and credit for sales where they divert our users and overwrite our cookies. Piss drinking merchants directly support what many consider unfair trade practices and thievery!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Les, baby... maybe they will find that more to their liking

    - Hell, I'm one of the ones they talk about. -

    Little sissies who complain about such stuff makes me wanna

    -----------------------------
    Big Chuck
    Why do some affiliate networks continue to enable parasitic technology providers to STEAL my hard earned revenue?

  16. #16
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    ok. NOW let's all do what we do best! Copy each others sites, steal ideas, and make money!

    -----------------------------
    Big Chuck
    Why do some affiliate networks continue to enable parasitic technology providers to STEAL my hard earned revenue?

  17. #17
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Must be getting near Holloween as Chuckies eyes are starting to glow. I made some big bucks on selling some cutsie branding tag lines, but never could get a food product buyer for Bite-Me".

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  18. #18
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    Interesting discussion. I've been on a few message boards and this is one of the best behaved of them all. I've even started my own partly because I was tired of the heavy handed moderation at another board I was on daily.

    This is a great community and with all communities, there will be the occasional squabbles, bickering and sh1t throwing. Happens on all of them from time to time. That's just the nature of us humans.

    Peepee and Poopoo are words you say to a 2 year old. If it's ok for them to hear it, then it's fine for us adults too. If you take offense to that in someone's signature, well, that's just silly.

    Remember, you have a mind of your own. Just because someone expresses an opinion to you doesn't mean you should take their opinion as your own.

    I'm still learning, but thanks to all of you, I've learned a lot. Give me a few more weeks and I'll be expert . Then you watch, I won't be able to keep my mouth shut, being female and all.

    SJohnson@NO_Spam_ClickMagazine.Net
    www.ClickMagazine.Net

  19. #19
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    Chuck, Mike, are you the least bit interested in fighting parasites?

  20. #20
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Buckworks. You more than anyone know I passed on my recommendation for your speach that was to carry forward this ABW recommendation to the networks on the CoC Nov 7th, 2002 meeting. I even contributed directly to funding your expenses.

    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...3&m=5536066653

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  21. #21
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    And people lament the fact that good merchants don't want to participate here.

    This is what they (everybody) see(s): peepee and poopoo. Pats on the back for merchants who have a habit of lying and BS'ing. Newbies being decieved into skipping opportunities to promote said merchants, because some guy who couldn't sell a snow cone to a Saudi couldn't deliver converting traffic and gave them the "cage liner" label. It goes on and on.

    This is why good merchants don't bother to get involved here. I for one wish that things were not this way.

  22. #22
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    If someone doesn't take me or this board seriously because of my sig that's their right.

    I have no desire to run anybody off from here but I have just as much right to reflect my sentiment as anybody else. I choose to represent this part of my complaints in my sig and don't feel it's vulger or unprofessional - it may be to people it applies to but I doubt most here are "really offended".

    If Haiko or the mods ask me change it, I will, otherwise it stays - until I want to change it!

    By the way - I just got back from eating "chicken" wings. I choose to discuss my own issues and not have someone else do it for me.

    ===============================
    PeePee merchants with PooPoo policies allow our earnings to be flushed down the crapper.

    Why give parasites unlimited cookie durations and credit for sales where they divert our users and overwrite our cookies. PP merchants directly support what many consider unfair trade practices and thievery!
    ===============================

  23. #23
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Hey I caught me a big carp, who's flopping all around the stern of the boat scaring Charlie.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    Actually, a couple of merchants I sent over to check out ABW commented on some of the sigs, said it was not quite what they expected from grown ups.

    It gives the same kind of impression as going into a job interview or important meeting wearing a spongebob shirt.

    And the issues we are trying to deal with are important, are they not?

    I think if we want merchants, who are business people, to listen to us, we need to give the impression that we are business people too.

    Not saying we shouldn't speak our minds or give our opinions on things, but it is first impressions that count if we are to get merchants involved here and when they see some of the sigs, they turn away.

    Connie Berg
    http://www.flamingoworld.com


  25. #25
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    Thank you Connie; it's refreshing to see that somebody does not buy into the gang mentality that seems to be prevalent here.

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