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  1. #1
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Why Kellie Stevens was not on my panel
    There have been a number of people who have commented that Kellie Stevens should have been on my panel "Ethical Issues in Affiliate Marketing". I would like to address why I chose not to include her. http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=109001

    The intent of the panel was to discuss ethical issues in our industry. I specifically told the participants that we were not going to rehash the past and the discussion was about moving forward. I chose to not include Kellie because I didn't want to focus on parasites as the center of the conversation. Furthermore, I promised the participants that I would not allow a witch hunt. That could have applied to most of us panelists.

    My attempt was to balance the panel as much as possible so we could have a well rounded dicsussion and cover many subjects. Each person was unique to me and I represented the AM/OPM section. We had a network (Shareasale), super affiliate turned agency turned network (Pepperjam), loyalty affiliate company (EBates), coupon affiliate company (FlamingoWorld). Haiko is neither a merchant, affiliate or network so fit the role as moderator.

    A debate of both sides of the parasite question is an excellent idea for a session at the next summit. I would be thrilled to setup an equal split between accused parasite and advocates against their practices. The first person I would invite and insure would be on that debate would be Kellie. Would have to dig deeper to find another on that side of the asile as Ben Edleman only speaks if paid.

    On the other side of the arguement I would again invite EBates as well as ShopAtHomeSelect, Zango/180Solutions, Upromise. Since at most we could have 6 in total it would be based on first ones who committed.

    And last, would be a hoot to have Mike from EcomCity on Kellie's side. Now I know that Kellie doesn't participate on this forum any more so I am sure some one can show her this thread. She has my number if she wants to put this together, I am all ears.

  2. #2
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Chuck, I totally get that it was a difficult decision to pick the right panelists. You need not be so defensive about the many things you did weigh, to make those decisions. It was a great panel and I learned from it, and I'm quite sure many others did as well.

    But the way you've painted Kellie here, is "way off" to me. You make it sound like her work is only in the past - she's current and continues to test and inform people of the latest in what's happening. And the parasite issues are most certainly, squarely at the center of the ethics issues, her input isn't peripheral to that. Further, parasites aren't the sole thing she researches either, she does research on other aspects of fairness and ethics in our industry. And her presenting facts and documentation of her research isn't a witch hunt - the lack of factual information clouds the judgements people will make - I've known her (my opinion here) to present information online and in person without being argumentative or overly passionate and without making it personal.

    But again Chuck, if we do happen to differ on how we view Kellie and her work, I want to be clear that you and I do agree on the vast majority of the ethical issues in our industry - in fact, I'm not aware of any ethical issues that we disagree on.

    And your work, both on the recent panel, and on future ones you propose / support / attend / foster / chair / panel is commendable! I loudly and publicly applaud your involvement and the time and effort you continually dedicate to improving our industry!

    Keep up the good work!!!

  3. #3
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Donuts, that's for the comments. My point is that I am all for Kellie being at the fore front of the parasite, adware discussion. I personally would like to see more from her as she has been rather quiet for the last six months. Would be interesting to see her contribute to Revenue and FeedFront even Revenews. I know she is working with the networks and would be great to see successes there.

    If there is a general consensus that Kellie is on the fore front of the discussion then lets help get her positioned to lead that discussion. PubCon in Vegas is looking for speakers. I have been trying to get into Internet Retailer for years so if anyone has a contact there its a big venue. All the top three networks have conferences, would they accept her speaking there? I know SAS would and the ThinkTank is coming up. What else??
    Last edited by Chuck Hamrick; August 21st, 2008 at 04:54 PM.

  4. #4
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    Chuck, I totally get that it was a difficult decision to pick the right panelists. You need not be so defensive about the many things you did weigh, to make those decisions. It was a great panel and I learned from it, and I'm quite sure many others did as well.
    Sorry Donuts, but so far...

    I am not to sure about where Chuck stand at the end, so I can't say that I agree or not with Chuck on this one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Hamrick
    I chose to not include Kellie because I didn't want to focus on parasites as the center of the conversation. Furthermore, I promised the participants that I would not allow a witch hunt. That could have applied to most of us panelists.
    So WTF is the main issue?

    As far as I remember, the first time I saw you on your posting streak here, it all was about: .... Chuck is the hammer guy!

    One thread after another one from you, was about... This parasite is no longer on our program, etc,... etc... etc... WHF?

    Look Chuck, I no longer GAF if you have decided to mastur-ebates, because after 7 years, I would not blame you...

    But just speak the truth and and let the truth set you free, because as of right now, you sound like some one on the take.


    Btw,..........

    Would have to dig deeper to find another on that side of the asile as Ben Edleman only speaks if paid.
    Don't try to be so FKNG stupid!

    To you, what's the different between Kellie and Ben?

    To me, they both can say what they have to say, or want to say about the parasite issue, but while one may wants to get paid to say it on their website or directly to you, the other one may just want to tell you in private what they know about that issue.

    SO WTF?

    Try to translate this, "Por La Plata Baila El Mono!"

  5. #5
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
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    Whoa, Mr. Sal, you are so on the wrong track. Chuck is one of the good guys!

  6. #6
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    But just speak the truth and and let the truth set you free, because as of right now, you sound like some one on the take.
    So I am proposing a session to discuss parasites and offering to get all parties together. And that makes me on the take?

    I also clearly commented on EBates on the thread that launched this one: http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=109001

    To you, what's the different between Kellie and Ben?
    Kellie is the parasite detective and makes her living supporting affiliate marketing. Ben is now a professor at Harvard and turned down the offer to speak at Affiliate Summit because it wasn't worth his time.

    Ok, Mr. Sal, I am game, did I answer your questions? Why are you on this thread, what's your point?

  7. #7
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Hamrick
    So I am proposing a session to discuss parasites and offering to get all parties together. And that makes me on the take?

    I also clearly commented on EBates on the thread that launched this one: http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=109001


    Kellie is the parasite detective and makes her living supporting affiliate marketing. Ben is now a professor at Harvard and turned down the offer to speak at Affiliate Summit because it wasn't worth his time.

    Ok, Mr. Sal, I am game, did I answer your questions? Why are you on this thread, what's your point?
    ---------------------

    Ok, Mr. Sal, I am game, did I answer your questions? Why are you on this thread, what's your point?
    No, you did not answer my question!

    I'm on this thread because I don't think or believe that you are Haiko, the owner of this forum.

    My point is that I really don't know what or were you stand today, case in "Why are you on this thread, what's your point?" To me, who the F are you to ask me that question now?

    Do Ebates got to you?

    Look Chuck, maybe I am wrong about what I have on my mind about you right now, but if you're ok....
    WHF do you had to ask this:?
    Why are you on this thread, what's your point?
    If you have a problem with why I am on this thread, and what is my point...

    Thank you, you just have took any doubt I might have about you.

    Btw, you can delete this post too if you want, I have a copy anyway!

  8. #8
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea
    Whoa, Mr. Sal, you are so on the wrong track. Chuck is one of the good guys!
    Well,

    Only time will tell...

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador Greg Rice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sal
    Well,

    Only time will tell...
    I don't think time needs to tell. Chuck is up there with a select few I really trust and don't, even for a second, think he's parasite-friendly.
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  10. #10
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Ya I am miffed that after 3 and a half years on ABW as the parasite slayer I am now accused of being in bed with parasites. Also, I am not Haiko. Haiko is on the far right and I am on the far left.



    So Mr. Sal since you have taken this thread off subject what are the unanswered questions?

  11. #11
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Sal,

    1. Chuck is one of the good guys, this I can say without a doubt.

    2. "So WTF is the main issue?" The issue for the panel wasn't o prove what they [parasites] did or are doing, the purpose of the panel was to "knowing what we know, and with what we have, how can we fix what we have to put ethics back into affiliate marketing" ... I started the panel as Ethics in Affiliate marketing ... sorry there isn't any. And that's because there really isn't we run to and protect and defend all that do have ethics. So the main issue was to say let's put ethics back in and then try to fix affiliate marketing, because the attempts to rename it (performance marketing) isn't fixing anything, it's just making the problem worse.

    3. If you read what Chuck wrote "I personally would like to see more from her as she has been rather quiet for the last six months. Would be interesting to see her contribute to Revenue and FeedFront even Revenews. I know she is working with the networks and would be great to see successes there." You'll see he's asking for more input from Kellie to actually be more visible and help more, nothing else.

    4. Paid off accusations - Chuck specifically said "Ben Edleman only speaks if paid." because when he was asked to be on the panel he retorted with some compensation for his time otherwise it wasn't worth it for him. Entonces, si, el mono baila por la plata. He wasn't saying anything else.

    Make sense? see the misunderstanding?
    Last edited by Chuck Hamrick; August 21st, 2008 at 04:53 PM. Reason: my typo
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
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  12. #12
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Hamrick

    The only thing Chuck has done wrong is to repost that horrendous Hawaiian shirt.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador meadowmufn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    The only thing Chuck has done wrong is to repost that horrendous Hawaiian shirt.
    I think that shirt is specifically designed to ward off evil parasites.
    -Don't criticize anyone til you've walked a mile in their shoes. Then when you do criticize them, you'll be a mile away and have their shoes.
    - Silence is golden. Duct Tape is silver.

  14. #14
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    Sal,

    1. Chuck is one of the good guys, this I can say without a doubt.
    Ok Chuck,

    I would like to apologize to you right here and now to you if I have cast a shadow about you on my previous posts on this thread.

    But after 5 years on ABW listening about the parasites issue, and after seeing that ebates have been on the menu for the last 7 years, and after seeing that "The ends justified the means", I think that I might have being being duped about the real thing

  15. #15
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Mr. Sal, no harm done, you always have something to say and I have always enjoyed your posts. It can get stuffy here and keep 'em coming. If you were confused about the parasite discuss that means others may have as well. So it was time well spent.

    So can you translate: "Por La Plata Baila El Mono!"

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador meadowmufn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Hamrick
    Mr. Sal, no harm done, you always have something to say and I have always enjoyed your posts. It can get stuffy here and keep 'em coming. If you were confused about the parasite discuss that means others may have as well. So it was time well spent.

    So can you translate: "Por La Plata Baila El Mono!"
    Something about the monkey dancing for silver? My Spanish is a little rusty...
    -Don't criticize anyone til you've walked a mile in their shoes. Then when you do criticize them, you'll be a mile away and have their shoes.
    - Silence is golden. Duct Tape is silver.

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    By The Silver Dances The Monkey??



    X

  18. #18
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Money makes the Mokey dance.

    As with organ grinders:
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  19. #19
    Believe knight01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    Money makes the Mokey dance.
    Sorry to be so OT.
    But like meadowmufn, mine is rusty as well, but doesn't plata mean silver?

    I suppose its the difference between how it's translated by those who have to learn the language by exact meanings and those who know the language through experience.


    Sort of like parasites... those of us who don't deal with it everyday don't understand the nuances that are clear to those that do deal with them daily.

    (hey! I think I brought this around to being an on topic post!)
    Last edited by knight01; August 21st, 2008 at 07:55 PM. Reason: bought brought whatever...
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  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador meadowmufn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight01
    (hey! I think I bought this around to being an on topic post!)
    Shame on you! But nice comparison there...
    -Don't criticize anyone til you've walked a mile in their shoes. Then when you do criticize them, you'll be a mile away and have their shoes.
    - Silence is golden. Duct Tape is silver.

  21. #21
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    In spanish words have many meanings, an inordinate amount actually. Yes plata means silver, and because silver used to be used for coins it became the term for money as well, as does feria, which means fair, a place to go after you have money, there are many other words as well, but you get the point.

    Asn definately, yes that comparison is right on - don't understand the nuances that are clear to those that do deal with them daily, not only with the parasites but also many of the players within the industry as well. But, history repeats itself, it all becomes clear when the smoke settles.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  22. #22
    Moderator BurgerBoy's Avatar
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    Since she has already been brought up on this thread...

    Why doesn't Kellie visit with us anymore here at ABW?

    I know that there was some conflict in the past but we should all be adult here and work out our problems as a family and see if we can get her to come here and post again.

    I enjoyed reading her post.

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  23. #23
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    Oh - I find this thread bizzare.

    I am a little baffled why Chuck had even started a thread like this in a public forum. Was it needed or forced on him?.

    May be this thread can be deleted IMO

  24. #24
    Comfortably Numb John Powell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck
    Also, I am not Haiko. Haiko is on the far right and I am on the far left.
    I read this without the picture being in view. Boy it had me puzzled. Been thinking politics too much here!


  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador Caseyfern's Avatar
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    ... but if he hadn't, we would not have gotten to see the shirt.

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