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  1. #1
    Affiliate Manager frankodelic's Avatar
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    My partner and I have been going back and forth about whether or not to include flash on our site, www.urbanscooters.com. Perhaps you can help us develop our list of Pro's & Con's

    PROS:

    Added "WoW FaCtOr" generates an increased positive emotional reaction to the site, thereby having a positive effect on conversion, word of mouth and media attention.

    CONS:

    The following folks will receive browser warnings on every page we have flash installed on, thereby dramatically increasing the odds of losing the sale.

    - Those who don't have Flash 4 installed.
    - Those who have Flash turned off.
    - We've noticed that some browsers will give a browser warning indicating a plug-in has been detected even if Flash 4 is installed.
    - There are certainly other unforseen circumstances where Flash will create an issue.

    Does anyone know if there is better code out there than the default code offered with flash to handle these cons?

    Thanks,

    Frank
    UrbanScooters.com
    UrbanScooters.com Affiliate Program

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    I personally dislike Flash sites, its not due to download time either as I'm on DSL but download times should also factor into your decision, as many people are still on dial up.

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Two principles I've always used in design (newspaper & otherwise).

    "Keep It Simple, Stupid"

    "Less is more ... more or less"

    JJJay is right, too. The overwhelming majority of our users are on dial up (expect for one inexplicable corner of our market). Keep it light!



    Karl Smith
    phillyBurbs - Your Internet Starts Here
    ---------
    Beware Parasiteware!
    [What is Parasiteware? click here to learn more]

  4. #4
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    I loved the Flash on your old site, but I agree that the majority of users will do better (dial-up time, browser compatibility, etc.) with non-flashed sites.

    Michael

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador
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    Did you ever get any banners without the flash? Haven't checked in awhile. If not, is it possible to get some for the same reasons. Thanks

  6. #6
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    I've accessed your ads on my site via WebTV a couple of times. Big blanks.


    _____
    I earned something? Who screwed up?

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador
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    I hate flash sites

    www.cjshoppingnetwork.com

  8. #8
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    Agreed with everyone else and what you said as the cons. Plus there is no SEO value to Flash.

    It does have it's WOW factor and if used well it can add to a site.

    However, 90% of the time I see it used just because they can, not because they should.

    SJohnson@NO_Spam_ClickMagazine.Net
    www.ClickMagazine.Net

  9. #9
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Major problem besides the "flash" kiss of death curse is Macromedia, Apple and Real Networks cousght up with Microsoft on that plug-in patent law suit. That one has them all by the short hairs and flash will disolve or pay big bucks for licensing.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  10. #10
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    I appreciate it very much when flash sites feature an easy-to-find "SKIP FLASH INTRO" button.

    The only thing worse than flash, IMHO, is unwanted and unexpected audio.

    Wayne

  11. #11
    Mama in Charge Anne's Avatar
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    I think flash is ok but it is a pita. Most people probably can't use it so my philosophy is... create a site everyone can use. If people feel like they are missing something , or they are irritated they have to download something, they might not come back. You could do a flash optional cute little thingie...


    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
    I got my T-Shirt! Imagination that!
    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

  12. #12
    affiliate emeritus missdonna's Avatar
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    Your flash isn't offensive, like so many sites are. It's actually very nice. But I have to agree, if it sends away any visitors it's probably not worth using.

  13. #13
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    I think flash is great for the art related sites (design, architecture, etc.)

    For shopping stores basic HTML or DHTML some flash in a spot or to for emphasis but thats it.

    Just my 2 cents

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    I have very few flash pages on my sites. With so many bad things on the Internet these days, I also have my security settings pretty high.

    Every time the Urban Scooters ad appears here at ABW, I have to click an extra time to allow it, or not. Not that I really mind, but it does get old after 5 or 6 times. I doubt I'd hang around a shopping site for long if I had to do that...

    Andy

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  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador affiliatemakeover's Avatar
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    Jakob's view:
    http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001029.html

    My view on Jakob's view:
    http://builder.com.com/5100-31-5073254.html

    From an affiliate perspective...You want conversions? Flash is not the answer.

    If you MUST use it, then use it as a tiny call to action button, or short animation within the normal html of your page.

    __________________
    Jim Kukral
    Direct of Emarketing/Brand Manager
    KowaBunga! Technologies
    http://www.kowabunga.net
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    http://www.myaffstats.com
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    http://www.optinpro.com

  16. #16
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    It looks nice but my gut feel is that it is doing nothing for your conversion rate.

    AVP

  17. #17
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    If it doesn't have a big, obvious "skip intro", I usually just click away from a site with flash. There isn't any Added "WoW FaCtOr". It is just plain annoying, in fact a real turn off.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    Farewell, CJ! I loved you when you were young and pure. I will try to remember you that way. Disclaimer: Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador
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    The average time an average user rests on a website is something about 20 sec. Sorry, no time for flash.

    carneol

  19. #19
    Full Member ronwls's Avatar
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    If I want to go to a site for entertainment I might like flash but if I am searching for info or shopping it just gets in the way. No Flash.

    Ron

  20. #20
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I might remind all here to visit Pud's hall of Fame filled full of Flash sites. Basically no etailer could ever survive a flash site or intro. Complete kiss of death. A click only type slide show display is OK as it involves user consent.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  21. #21
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    Flash makes me

    -------------
    <font size="1">Ladies and Gentleman you are being robbed every day, you know it and you're not doing anything about it. When is enough, enough? </font>

  22. #22
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    Actually, I am in the minority here and find a flash presentation that is well put together, rather cool. A nice presentation of products that I am interested in may have me buy where I wouldn't otherwise.

    But for reasons that go beyond most people ignoring or skipping it, I would not use it myself at this time.

    <font color=blue size="1">"The most successful con artist will have you believing he is the most ethical person you will ever know."</font>

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador Nature Boy's Avatar
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    I've always found its better to offer a choice. Let the customer decide whether or not to see the flash. Of course, this doubles up your work load, by having to make 2 pages for everything, but with the use of SSI, it shouldn't be a big problem to make the changes.

    Of course, I could be talking out of my butt too.

    -----------------------------
    Scott

  24. #24
    Affiliate Manager frankodelic's Avatar
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    Looks like we have our answer...

    NOT TO FLASH!!!

    Going over the responses, I should have been clearer in that we're not talking about www.urbanscooters.com as a flash site, but a site with some flash elements included. Nonetheless, the majority opinion is clear that even some flash will take customers away from the end goal... buying scooters!

    Trust... the creation of .gif banners is on that "list" I keep talking about. We'll see about having a few available before the holidays swing into full gear.

    Thanks to all who have posted!

    Frank
    UrbanScooters.com
    UrbanScooters.com Affiliate Program

  25. #25
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    ROLMAO ...to Fash or not to Flash is no longer a valid question.

    Flash could disappear from online advertising. Sound ludicrous? Then you aren't aware of what has happened between Microsoft and a little-known company called Eolas. If you are aware, you probably don't know the issues this will raise for online advertising.

    Back in August, Microsoft lost a patent infringement case related to how Active X controls load into Internet Explorer. Eolas (which holds the patent in question) was awarded a whopping $500 million dollars. Active X is the mechanism used by most Explorer-compatible plug-ins, including Macromedia's Flash and Shockwave, Quicktime, Real Media, Adobe Acrobat, and many others.

    As a result of the ruling, Microsoft has chosen to alter the behavior of its browser rather than licensing Eolas' technology. I downloaded a developer version of the new browser to review how they're planning to work around the patent.

    It isn't pretty.

    Essentially, any time an Active X control is called, a small pop-up warning asks if you want to continue loading the content. It actually stops all content from loading onto the page while the message is displayed -- not just the Active X control. Perhaps most disturbing is that Internet Explorer launches this popup message every time the browser encounters an Active X control on the page, not just once per page load. If a page has multiple Flash ads, every single ad would halt page loading. Surfing the Web could become almost unbearable.

    The good news is Macromedia plans to release some server-side tools to allow the security mechanism to be bypassed. The bad news? Every Web site, ad server and content provider in the world will be compelled to adopt and to release this solution prior to Microsoft's release of the Explorer update that enacts the mechanism. It won't be a one-line code change. It involves integration of a server-side code engine that will read through every piece of HTML placed into the browser, then switch the code to comply with the change.

    Macromedia and many other companies are collaborating with Microsoft engineers to develop toolkits to enable publishers and ad servers to develop server-side solutions that will prevent the pop-up warning from appearing. There's no guarantee a workaround won't be blocked by legalities.......

    http://www.clickz.com/tech/ad_tech/article.php/3098671

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

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