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  1. #1
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    The one thing in this affiliate industry you can trust is the enity controlling the shopping cart has all the power and only they know the entire story of who -why and what is being sold. How do you trust anyone's reported sales numbers? How do you know you can trust anyone's analysis of what goes on around the shopping cart if you can't see the day to day actual results?

    This industry, whether run in the US or UK, has more then just "affiluate greed" to blame for black-hat behaviors. Immorality has permeated our entire country, way of life and CPA industry. John Adams warned the fellow US founders that "our form of government was intended for a moral people" and that it is entirely "inadequate for the government of any other. He said "Self government doesn't work for a people incapable of governing themselves". The same is true for capitalism and affiliate CPA marketing.

    Both the affiliate networks and sales oriented capitalism is a beautiful thing to watch when the people “love their neighbors as themselves” and “do onto others” as they would have others do onto themselves. A country or industry of hedonists, greed mongers, sociopaths and narcissists will destroy each other without hesitation. These are the fruits of Darwinism where the low fruit pickers and commission interlopers rule. It is survival of the fittest or the ones without ethics standing in their way.

    I've seen for years the attitude here and all other affiliate forums of ... Why shouldn’t I screw you for everything you have or exploit every loophole you didn't cover with a TOS rule? So what if YOU are going to be destitute, scream about unearned commissions; just think how happy my wife and kids will be while we enjoy your money by devising commission kiting schemes. It equals out right? Affiliates and shady merchants think... “If I didn’t take the suckers money, someone else would have.” There is no system of eternal reward or punishment so why should I care.

    I've heard many yell.... Oh, so it’s wrong because YOU say so? Well it “feels right” to me so what gives you the right to impose your morality on me? I broke the rules .... prove it! etc etc.

    Until the network controls the shopping cart and makes all sales activity totally transparent their can be no trust. Do I hear anything about a SafeHaven Network???
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    Well put Mike! Man is inherently sinful and no amount of education OR contractual agreement will prevent or reduce unscrupulous behavior. That's why I believe the system needs to change.

    I'm in absolute agreement with you about control of the shopping cart. I'm not so certain about ownership of the shopping cart though. There are many logistical problems with any group other than the merchant owning the shopping cart. My primary concerns have to do with payment processes (ie merchant accounts, payment techniques, funds handling). The merchant needs to process the payment which precludes ownership by a network. So that boils down to standardization of the shopping cart process rather than control of the shopping cart process.

    As for tracking, the shopping cart must be the mechanism for determining and rewarding the referral source rather than unreliable methods such as client cookies. No other business model that pays on commissions is rife with such an erroneous method for determining reward. Could you imagine for example; A car salesman sells three cars. But when payday arrives is paid commission on just two. When he complains to the accountant, he's told that sorry, they just don't remember him selling the third one? So, not only must the affiliate be compensated for EVERY referral, NO referrals should be subverted by unscrupulous means. If you eliminate and replace the cookie process, the affiliate is compensated fairly AND you eliminate cheating in one fell swoop.

    And for you neigh sayers who rebut that this won't work etc etc, be prepared to offer what WILL work...



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  3. #3
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Boomers your close to a solution but don't quite get where I'm coming from. I have merchant clients who know they pay every affiliate on every sale for over 10 years. Amazon controlls the shopping cart on their network and now does eBay as an Indy.

    You see it's impossible, short of shutting off the cart, not to record/report sales under the www.ecomcity.com/safehaven-network.htm simple model. What's to prevent any major or minor network from requiring their merchant partners from using a common shopping cart and keeping the commission poachers at bay. Never again could we reasonably hear to all to common complaint sales aren't being recorded/reported... Hell there goes 1/4 of my posts
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    Mike, believe me, I'm sold on tracking at the shopping cart layer, wherever that may reside. I'm working on methods of refining that myself. I applaud you for your SC implementation. Yours doesn't cover all the bases though. It can't differentiate between users behind a NAT firewall because they all come in on one IP address, consequently, sharing the same SC. When that issue is resolved I'll be knocking down your door to insist that we become partners and promote the system to the nth degree...



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  5. #5
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomers
    Mike, believe me, I'm sold on tracking at the shopping cart layer, wherever that may reside. I'm working on methods of refining that myself. I applaud you for your SC implementation. Yours doesn't cover all the bases though. It can't differentiate between users behind a NAT firewall because they all come in on one IP address, consequently, sharing the same SC. When that issue is resolved I'll be knocking down your door to insist that we become partners and promote the system to the nth degree...
    Boomjers the folks at www.Volusion.com should be able to private label a suitable multi-merchant/multi session shopping cart suitable for running even the Google/Froogle batch of merchants. My Americart example is fine just for small indies. If someone could disect Miva.com from the stranglehold of a spyware/adware ownership it could serve as a network multi-merchant cart. Suitable Cart companies are a dime a dozen that would allow a Cybermall environment for rule following trusted merchants.... operating under network CyberMall management

    I'm amazed Google didn't jump on this from jumpstreet rahter them trying to put perfume on the performic pig... LOL
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    Developing the technical side of the system is easy compared to convincing merchants with existing programs to swallow it. Might even be tantamount to whirled peas[sic]. Imagine a whirled where the only remaining AM worry was TM bidding! ABW posting would be reduced by half...



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  7. #7
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomers
    Developing the technical side of the system is easy compared to convincing merchants with existing programs to swallow it. Might even be tantamount to whirled peas[sic]. Imagine a whirled where the only remaining AM worry was TM bidding! ABW posting would be reduced by half...
    Don't kid yourself Boomers. The SafeHaven idea was run through several merchants who were infested with BHO parasites, had cookie stuffers and all kinds of point of sale incentive poachers, in their current program. They loved the idea they could upload their product feed into a referral advertising network where none of these blackhat players or cookie cannons could operate. Their existing infested network links would continue to feed the bad guys but the new Safehaven physical click links would land where BHO's -couponers- incentive affiliates couldn't operate business as usual tactics. They'd pay higher commish just to operate in a Safehaven Network model.

    Simple sue any BHO link hijackers and popups on the network run CyberMall URL. Simple only the merchant would be allowed to post any incentives on their promotional landing pages as the shopping cart would have no "place coupon code here" box. All place item in cart button would immediately reflect published discounts. No need to abandon cart and Google for Coupons. All the merchants conversion stats would be published to assist affiliates on directing traffic where it could most likely earn commissions. Traffic spill over to other merchant storefronts would be bluebird sales for both affiliate and merchant.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    It amazes me that there aren't cheerleaders here ra-ra-ing the merits of such a system. I've been putting a lot of thought into this but haven't been able to generate much enthusiasm in the ranks. Don't know whether it's apathy or... There's plenty of enthusiasm for complaining about the disservice by merchants and the vulnerability in current tracking methods, and the blackhats...



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  9. #9
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Mike,

    I've been hearing about the safe haven network for all the years I've been here and it always sounds like "the plan" but it is never taken seriously. I want to know WHY?!!!
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
    Loving Everyone's Child Creates Magic


  10. #10
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    It's not taken seriously because and I'll just copy and paste some reasons:

    "It's not parasitic in any way"

    Yeah it is, BLFH said so and so have others that went thru it. When they pointed it out, you never came back to those old threads.

    So besides being parasitic some other problems:

    "For merchants with more then 500 products. Only the top selling 30% of products they offer in each product category can be placed into their SHN ecatalog."

    Don't think merchants or affiliates would like that kind of limitation. What about the other 70%? Why would i want the same 30% everybody else has?

    "Incentives cannot be used in affiliate creatives nor given to SHN affiliates to use on their pages"

    That won't fly. It's ridiculous. You use incentives on your own site, free shipping, coupons etc.

    "Merchants may daily backup their SHN ecatalog, but are not permitted to give this database file to affiliates for use to build complete mirrored sites. Use of this database feed to power a Product Showcase Creator or similar application is acceptable and encouraged."

    Won't fly either. Some affiliates use feeds in good ways and wouldn't want that limitation of only being able to use it thru certain applications.

    Some of the other stuff is good and basic. But that page you linked too is just a skeleton outline, no meat.

    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread...ght=safe+haven

    The idea isn't even that original. You came up with it after you started selling the suspenders on Amazon.com. Amazon has that one cart system where I can buy something from Office Depot, Target, Amazon.com some 3rd party seller and I can check all that stuff under 1 cart.

    There's more, you can search on it. There are many threads on it. No offense to Mike but the stuff I posted above just isn't going to fly with merchants or affiliates.

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    The SHN has obviously gone beyond revolutionized tracking methods that I've been singing the praises of. My ideas center around bulletproof tracking methods as opposed to Mike's total network solutions.

    What about these issues Mike? Wouldn't it be worth working through some of these to develop an improved more versatile product?



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  12. #12
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomers

    What about these issues Mike? Wouldn't it be worth working through some of these to develop an improved more versatile product?
    Yeah
    Peace,

    Rexanne

    Rexanne.com
    Loving Everyone's Child Creates Magic


  13. #13
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Here's the real deal on why the SHN model never took off or got any widespread acceptance at ABW or elsewhere in the affiliate community. It's the same reason why my suspender client, who is one of the highest converting merchants on the internet, only has 9 active affiliates. They both only offer... a totally level playing field for both the merchant and the affiliate.

    The merchant can't turn off reporting of sales or dodge commissions exposure on high conversion product landing pages. Only way out of paying referral commissions would be to turn off the Networks Shopping cart.... fat chance of that! The end-user/shopper never has to jump through hoops to get whatever immediate incentives the merchant offers in plain view at their SHN storefront. The merchants ecommerce activity at SHN is totally transparant to affiliates and his real storefront conversion ratio is published monthly. If his post sale service -ecatalog -customer reviews -competitive pricing all suck then his conversion ratio (average # of physical clicks to produce 1 sale ) is known to all. The merchant can upload his entire ecatalog, but his conversion ratio will be dragged down by those hard sell dusty inventory items.

    The the only thing ABW was able to bring to the Code of Conduct meeting was a demand commissions be tied to a physical click from an affiliates link. So the SHN requires a physical click to get paid. It also goes beyond the network smoke and mirrors ethics by requiring that physical click cookie gets set from the affiliates own domain page.

    Merchants can publish any incentives they want to drive higher conversion sales to SHN Cybermall shoppers.... but the price incentives, promo sales discounts, free freight etc etc apply to every single shopper at SHN in the price attached to the "add to cart" button.

    This Levels playing field for all merchants - all affiliates - all SHN shoppers since no last second shopping cart poachers will have any impact on shoppers. They'll never see a " place coupon/promo code here" box during checkout. Merchants will love it being in a CyberMall that gets bookmarks from satisfied shoppers not having to jump through any incentive hoops. They won't love it when the savvy SHN shoppers can click and find a better deal from a competing SHN merchant on the same or similar product.

    Truth be told, as Boomers and others try and shoot holes in the SHN model, the olny glaring fault is the fact everyone is playing on a level playing field. The Gall of it not being able to work their commissionable greed moves or dodge commissionable sales...
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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  14. #14
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    I'd be interested in learning more about the SHN model. Please feel free to email me a presentation.
    Flambi Media Limited - USA/UK/EU Affiliate Management Expertise

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    Mike, there's a big difference between "shooting holes" and testing for usability. To develop a system with self inflicted "holes", let it lay, and only sing it's praises, refusing to look at it's faults, it's no wonder enthusiasm is lacking.
    In light of Trust's post, there seems to be more to the disinterest than the claim that it's because the system can't be gamed. That would reflect on the general populace here as being entirely hypocritical or incompetent. In a market driven economy the consumer holds the wheel, not the developer. If the consumer is less than impressed they'll not be turning the wheel in your direction and the product will fail. If the posts here at ABW can be believed, many from both sides of the fence are crying out for an honest system that will protect their interests. The one that comes along answering that cry will win.

    And Mike, don't perceive this as an attack on you personally. It's not. I'm deeply interested in an affiliate marketing infrastructure change. Whether I have a part in driving that, or you, or the next guy, I'll continue to ask the questions and offer input.



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  16. #16
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Boomers you'll find I'm the most attacked person, without cause, here at ABW. Trust, Chet and a slew of others hate me for the very fact I've never had to regret or proof read a single word I posted here in over 17,000 posts. Haiko just puts up with me and all my real followers have been driven off site as they don't have as thick a skin as me from attackers. You'd assume MS B. (BLFH) of AffiliateFairPlay thinks badly of the SafeHaven Network model from what was written above...

    ""It's not parasitic in any way" "Yeah it is, BLFH said so and so have others that went thru it. When they pointed it out, you never came back to those old threads." So besides being parasitic some other problems: Blah Blah...

    Just call her or e-mail her and you'll find that she and I have been on the exact same page since she joined ABW and I've always helped her to be a force here and in this industry. She's the real deal.

    The only crack in the SHN model is there is no defense for cookie stuffers. So eliminate "incentive affiliates" of any flavor and you marginalize the cookie stuffing. THen SHN would hire Ms B. (BLFH) the cajun queen of AffiliateFairplay to monitor links for cookie stuffing activity or investigate bad actor oputings. Those turning in proven bad actors and TOS violators get to split their forfeited commissions payable with AffiliateFairPlay when the abuse was proven.

    It's illegal to block or interfer with referral links that are routed through a shopping cart server which sets the tracking/session cookie and redirects to the ecatalog page. Norton nor anyone else can block, blank or interfer with a shopping cart URL link. That begins the SHN model.

    The customer led to any SHN merchant will land in a ecommerce safe haven ala a GoogleCheckout type experience. They rule the merchant -the referring affiliate and the network and vote with their mouse and money. Read my tag line and spend some hours trying to destroy any part of the SHN model where it isn't fair to the merchant the affiliate the shopper as it removes the distrust that sales aren't being reported 100% of the time.

    Multi-merchant Cart sponsors are available to handle setting the tracking cookie, terrific ecatalog displays, database or single item uploads for merchant products, storefront customizations and guaranteed integration of any existing affiliate sales tracking system available today. Key difference, eliminating distrust of sales reporting and need for exotic tracking solutions you think needs to be sought, is the NETWORK controls the cart and is transparent as to daily sales by any and all merchants. Many will have a referral cookie attached to the order. But like Amazon all sales are viewable.

    You want to test your every referral gets credited if it leads to a sale... proven with an email copy of every order then join my elite affiliate program. You'll enjoy one sale per every 20-25 clicks forever... LOL
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  17. #17
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    Mike in over 5 years since you came up with this, you keep avoiding direct questions. You answer like a politician. A bunch of words, paragraphs, never directly answering the questions. Below are deal killers. What affiliate or merchant would work in a network with these kind of limitations? You've avoided directly addressing this stuff, can you do it today in your next post or will you avoid it again? Here it is:

    "For merchants with more then 500 products. Only the top selling 30% of products they offer in each product category can be placed into their SHN ecatalog."

    Don't think merchants or affiliates would like that kind of limitation. What about the other 70%? Why would i want the same 30% everybody else has?

    "Incentives cannot be used in affiliate creatives nor given to SHN affiliates to use on their pages"

    That won't fly. It's ridiculous. You use incentives on your own site, free shipping, coupons etc.

    "Merchants may daily backup their SHN ecatalog, but are not permitted to give this database file to affiliates for use to build complete mirrored sites. Use of this database feed to power a Product Showcase Creator or similar application is acceptable and encouraged."

    Won't fly either. Some affiliates use feeds in good ways and wouldn't want that limitation of only being able to use it thru certain applications."

    And

    Kellie - "I can't believe you said this one Mike. Ok, I can see where that policy could be an attraction for increasing your affiliate base, but you just turned your Safe Haven Network into a Network that is parasitic (vs a network that has a % of their affiliate base parasitic)."

    How about some more things she said about your network:

    "Your Network will be a HUGE draw to every cookie setting affiliate trickster out there."

    "Your Network would be a draw for every unethical AM out there who works on commissions who currently think the parasites are "adding value" to their programs because it increases their monthly paycheck."

    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread...+haven+network

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    Trust, it's sometimes hard to keep up with your edits. I find myself refreshing a lot when you post so I don't miss your latest version.

    Being the new kid on the block many times leaves me clueless when it comes to history, and to try to piece years of that together may not be worth my while. But how about some fresh discussion on this with a mode change Mike, from defensive to constructive. No radically different (potentially effective) method will accomplish anything if it's not allowed to evolve with input of the very users it's meant to serve.



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  19. #19
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Thumbs up
    Trust the SHN merchants don't want more of the same old - same old - affiliate promotions they get from the existing networks, comparison shopping engines or places like having an Amazon or eBay shop. If they participate in SHN they're exposing their true conversion ratio, They'd be smart to led and push their best selling products and leave the slow selling crap to the other sales channels.

    The true quality of a SHN affiliate has never been seen in traditional affiliate networks. No one there get's rewarded for high demand or niche product pre-sell and therefore those networks and their merchant AM's expect thin affiliates, cookie cannons and cart poachers at every turn. An affiliate building a pre-sell page.... landing motivated shoppers at a known converting merchant's product page is guaranteed success. Hell he'll also guarantee himself/herself a perminent SERP listing in the process with the merchants' blessing. The affiliate can also build out a domain site devoted to all or part of a SHN merchant's ecatalog.

    No merchant in their right mind wants to push ROI killing incentives. The Adwhores love incentives and refuse to work without them or any other crutches like coupons, rebates, cash back deals as they can only muster the expertise to sell the sizzle ... never the steak.

    I guess a SHN operator can open pandoras box and let in incentive marketers by not restricting incentives to just being pushed by the merchants from their SHN ecatalog.

    Boomers or Trust you should talk to Overstock's CEO as he knows his folks have crawled in bed with every affiliate sleezebag known to the staff at Linkshare. He's appalled at the percentage number of incentives attached to Overstock's daily sales. Would they want a SafeHaven Network Storefront with value added referral affiliates??? Simple.... point Patrick to www.ecomcity.com/safehaven-network.htm and ask him.

    ps; you all assume it's an advertising network... wrong! It's a sales network model.
    Last edited by ecomcity; September 17th, 2008 at 08:54 PM.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador
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    "Trust the SHN merchants don't want more of the same old - same old - affiliate promotions they get from the existing networks, comparison shopping engines or places like having an Amazon or eBay shop."

    SHN merchants? Mike, there is no SHN network, hence there are no SHN merchants.

    And after all these years, if someone thought it was a great idea, don't you think someone would have went ahead with it?

    And again, as I expected, you didn't directly answer any of the problems I posted.

    As far as what you just posted about coupons, incentives etc. This has been gone over to death over the years. Coupons, incentives etc. aren't going anywhere. Have been around since the dawn of business. You use them on your own site. Shoppers love coupons, even moreso with this economy. So when you want to get something going, have an idea for a network, it has to start with a base of reality, it's not in this case. There are all kinds of problems with your idea, ones you like to pretend don't exist and never address. And when people bring it up, you see it as attacking. It's not attacking, it's going thru it. You need answers, you need to figure all these problems out before it even has a chance of going anywhere.

  21. #21
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    To grasp the concept of a SafeHaven Sales Network you have to have an open mind and appathy towards meeting the needs of 3 parties. The customer/shopper - The Merchant inventory investor - The parties making and operating under the networks rules.

    My premise coming from automating hundreds of small businesses selling products and services as a computer VAR for over 35 years is this... Every person/enity who acts as a value added touchpoint to bring about a sale deserves to be rewarded based upon his level of involvement and risk.

    If you desire it all (risk/reward) then make or control the manufacturing of a product and be the exclusive sales agent. You then are responsible for the Brand/ Trademarks / any Patents / Mfgr costs and marketing channel costs to bring your product to an end-user. With that much responsibility you'd best have some real product passion.

    I've been intimately involved in automating and helping these type merchants, and service operators, launch, grow and control their business. I was the one shoving a back office computer into the mix and automating the sales/billing process so I had to learn what each Owner/CEO set as priorities. What they appreciated and cherished in the way of sound business advice to keep the wolf from their newly opened doors. Business owners know and cherish anyone who has their business's best interest at heart. Never harm the brand or alienate a customer. Risk and reward flows from the top down in a legit sales channel...

    The Mfgr needs a stocking distributor or he can't schedule manufacturing. The distributor needs stocking sales outlets and resellers. The sales outlets/resellers need salesmen and sales agents willing to interact with the potential buying customer and help cash to feed the Sales network flow into the cash register.

    So the SafeHaven Sales Network becomes a echo system needing to reward those who offer the most value to influence sales according to their risk level to survive.

    So I do know first hand what a VAR is and the SafeHaven Sales Network is a VAR program. VAR = "Value Added Reseller". If the right shopping cart/ecatalog engine is chosen for the SHN then any merchant can easily upload or hand post inventory into their branded storefront. Think opening a shop at a infinite space CyberMall where the inventory has to be turned/churned by allowing hundreds of display windows to be setup driving shoppers to the storefronts capable of filling their immediate needs. The better the window display and focus on the desired product or a reasonable choice the more likely a sale will be made.

    Those putting up the window displays don't have to buy/stock anything ... just motivate shoppers with their own preferred choices and pre-sell product spin to enter through the door next to their window display. If that shopper buys something today or a week from now because they came through your showcase door then you earn a sales commission for adding value to the sale process. You made the motivating window display with enough eye candy to trigger a need.... or perceived need.

    If I'm working as a VAR or sales channel advisor for a Branded Suspender manufacturer/distributor I don't think snagging shoppers with a 25% off coupon is important when the product isn't a common commody. Now a window display touting the huge choices in quality suspenders strikes someones eye when shopping for a gift for Dad, Grandpa, a no butt Son, or a trendy fashion teenage girl might bring them through your display window door. The creative time risk is offset if the suspender brand merchant shows 1 out of every 20 entering their SHN store buys something. Huuuuummmm Who else do you promote without coupon poaching publishes this high a conversion ratio??

    You see folks I forsee no problem getting VAR affiliates when the conversion numbers are published in the network stats. My suggested restrictions are there to make sure ONLY those building attractive window displays to directly motivate and focus shoppers to specific merchants get paid commissions. Last second incentive or coupon poachers are a dime a dozen. Google them (Brand/Trademark/Merchant/product + coupon) and then compare the page 1 & 2 SERPs without the "coupon keyword" crutch. The resulting SERPs represent someone adding lasting value to that merchants sales channel. I can prove this can easily be done by anyone rewarded for making a great sales page for any product or merchant.

    Publishing the sales conversion ratios of participating merchants sets SHN apart from all current affiliate networks. This type network matches creative pre-sell affiliates with high conversion merchants. If your only creative talent is to develop a BHO incentive popup, or a hidden cookie stuffing scheme, or being on page one for Brand/Trademark + coupon this network isn't for you. If your product, or stature as a trusted merchant, sucks to the point you don't want your storefront's conversion ratio published... then just keep with your existing traffic gen schemes. You sure don't want transparancy
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    I AM a merchant. We currently don't operate an affiliate program. But, as a merchant I would be unlikely to participate in your network. Forget all the talk about VAR affiliates, BHOs, conversion ratio, transparancy, and Safe Harbor. I don't like third parties having any kind of control over any aspect of my marketing practices. And I'm not interested in being another storefront in a cybermall. I want to be able to promote specific items in different ways including coupons, sales, markdowns, and yes, special rates for special affiliates. And when I do open an affiliate program I want all my products to be available to the affiliates. A dusty item on a back shelf may easily end up being some affiliate's niche gold. And I suspect that many merchants may agree with me.

    When I do open a program, it will utilize server-side tracking tied to the client computer rather than tied to a cookie (or perhaps a combination). As a late bloomer in affiliate marketing I'm literally aghast at the archaic method of sales accounting that has been force fed to the affiliate populace. The current system with it's unreliable tracking methods makes no sense to me. REAL business models use reporting and reliable record keeping to account for owed commissions. Affiliate marketing should be no different.

    So sorry Mike, I don't think your system meets the needs of either the merchant OR the affiliate.

    That said, I may be interested in joining the suspender program, that is, if I haven't burned my bridges...
    Last edited by Boomers; September 18th, 2008 at 01:04 PM.



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  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador
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    4,423
    Here's the real deal on why the SHN model never took off or got any widespread acceptance at ABW or elsewhere in the affiliate community. It's the same reason why my suspender client, who is one of the highest converting merchants on the internet, only has 9 active affiliates. They both only offer... a totally level playing field for both the merchant and the affiliate.
    The real reason, because disagreeing with you makes that person a cheat.

    I don't say much anymore Mike because to be honest, I feel sad even pointing this little bit out.

    Chet

  24. #24
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Boomers I sent you information of both the affiliate program and the Tax ID# type reseller program to yoy web sites email box.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  25. #25
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
    I decide when the pigs fly!
    Rhea's Avatar
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    Would a mod please consider splitting off the posts about Mike's SHN? (Talk about sidetracking a thread.)

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