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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador
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    Dow Dropping Like Crazy
    10,365.45 -777.68 -6.98%

    http://moneycentral.msn.com/detail/s...INDU&GT1=33002

    Damn. What are people's thoughts on the bailout or what used to be the bailout, still could be later on? Saw that the House voted no on it. Should they have said yes?

  2. #2
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    A minor correction in the greater scheme of things.

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merchant Consultant Team
    A minor correction in the greater scheme of things.
    Capitalism house cleaning...



    X

  4. #4
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
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    I have no stinking idea what to think about the bailout. I'm not an economist and it seems to me you'd need some kind of financial background to make much sense of the situation. I did ask my dad, who's a CPA and has done financial planning for clients, what his thoughts were. He feels the bailout is essential to keep the country from plummeting into a depression. (Not recession -- depression.)

    My husband works for a financially strapped museum and my income depends on consumer buying power and confidence. Fortunately we have great credit, an unused $25K home equity loan and other than our house mortgage and car payment, no debt. So yeah, I'm scared crapless.

  5. #5
    Affiliate Manager Howard Gottlieb's Avatar
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    I believe we are in unchartered territory.

    There are interesting theories as to what caused this issue and how to correct it. But I won't delve there because of requests to not get too political.
    I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die
    to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there
    isn't and die to find out there is.

  6. #6
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Mainstreet will not be happy when they actually realize what has happened and the effects and weight of them bailing out Wall street. It will get worse - the global interconnectivity effect hasn't been really felt yet.

    Who is going to save the small mid sized cos who can't get a damn loan to build or keep their business? It's f'ed and bad.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  7. #7
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    i'm pissed at all sides. i'm tired of these political parties, the pointing of fingers..it's all political pandering and its a joke. our government is failing us now..we need a freakin' 3rd party or something. these people worked all last week and the weekend compromising on this bill and they don't pass it.....wtf.
    damn, i'm so angry today i can't even make sense.

  8. #8
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    It is good that the bailout did not pass.

    Let those who took mortgages that they could not afford and those who lent them suffer. There is no need to rescue big fat wall street bankers making millions with huge bets and leverages knowing the risks very well. I want all those banks to suffer and collapse for their mistakes

    Eventually, it will work out fine. A home has a value as it provides some comfort to a human. All the homes will be bought / recycled at whatever price the market determines that to be. There is no need for the govt. to interfere here with buying out of mortgage securities

    Let the Dow Jones crash to ZERO value if that is the value of the index. Let the market players determine the exact course of FUNDAMENTALS without delaying the eventual collapse on our kids.

    It will also be good if the US wipes out 10 trillion of its debt and come out clean. They can sell the US assets/resources or whatever to the foreign governments and wipe out the debt. That will make the balance sheet and world a better for our kids even though we all suffer a bit (perhaps a lot) for some years!.

  9. #9
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    Let us suffer now than passing the burden of the US debt and bad practices of failed banks to our kids

    Let the good prevail. And the evil companies suffer or vanish

  10. #10
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    this isn't a bailout. lots of big-wigs already got wacked (ie: bear stears, wamu, frannie, freddy, etc.)...while its true the credit markets made bad investments......if those aren't taken care of now, everyone is in trouble. there is a credit freeze....something needs to be done so people can borrow money again..and they need to do something soon.

  11. #11
    Merchant & ABW Ambassador
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    damn... that is a bid drop and it looks like the end is not in sight yet.

    I was going to jump in when the down hit 11k but apparently I might have to do the "wait and see" that everybody is talking about. I guess Warren buffet jumped in a bit too early.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboysfan
    this isn't a bailout. lots of big-wigs already got wacked (ie: bear stears, wamu, frannie, freddy, etc.)...while its true the credit markets made bad investments......if those aren't taken care of now, everyone is in trouble. there is a credit freeze....something needs to be done so people can borrow money again..and they need to do something soon.
    That is the problem. Why is the CREDIT needed. Let people and companies live within their means. No debt, no borrowed credits.

    Let the CREDIT freeze as hell forever. Let people/companies learn to live within their means

    I know it will be a TERRIBLE hardship now.. but we will leave a better place for our kids

  13. #13
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    BORROWING = EVIL
    DEBT = EVIL
    CREDIT FREEZE FOREVER = GOOD LONG TERM

    I am prepared to SUFFER the consequences of CREDIT FREEZE and I know it will be terrible DECADE or so to go through this

    But I will be happy to do it so we all can leave a better tomorrow for our kids

  14. #14
    Analytics Dude Kevin's Avatar
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    It's so hard from where I sit to pass judgement on whether or not this particular bail out, or rescue, or whatever, should have passed.

    What I do know is that I don't believe I voted for anyone in my life that I thought would someday be deciding to spend what amounts to 1 third of the Federal deficit in one weekend.

    This is the beauty and the horror of the representative republic we live in. We cast our votes based on primarily social issues, then unwittingly give this kind of decision making power to individuals who likely know nothing about this problem.

    Instead, they are being fed information by third parties on both sides (or all 10 sides, for that matter).

    This is a grave test for both capitalism, and democracy (representative republic, really). I wonder if we've seen the limits of both.

    If we have, it's likely it will fix itself, no matter how painfully.

    Perhaps extending this rescue bill would prevent us all from learning the appropriate lessons. Or, perhaps it was the right thing to do. I sure as hell don't know.
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  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador simcat's Avatar
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    When has the fed govt. ever shown that they know how to manage money?
    And they're telling the taxpayers that we are supposed to absorb $700b in bad debts?

    If this problem could be fixed with govt. $600 screwdrivers & $1000 toilet seats, I would have plenty of confidence in them.

  16. #16
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    Govt. should be out from our lives other than for basic stuff like roads, police, national security, etc. Everything else, let the markets and capitalism work out. Including collapse of excesses in market forces and rebirth of right practices in capitalism

    Let the govt. stay out of controlling our lives and also let us curb the govt. from incurring DEBT under any circumstances unless it is financed and pre-paid by "its current citizens" and not "future citizens" . Govt. should live within its means and should be a role model for its citizens

    A bankrupt govt. means a bankrupt nation leading everyone to bankruptacy

  17. #17
    Visual Artist & ABW Ambassador lostdeviant's Avatar
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    This is bad news for all of us.

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador Greg Rice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtagdeals
    Govt. should be out from our lives other than for basic stuff like roads, police, national security, etc. Everything else, let the markets and capitalism work out. Including collapse of excesses in market forces and rebirth of right practices in capitalism

    Let the govt. stay out of controlling our lives and also let us curb the govt. from incurring DEBT under any circumstances unless it is financed and pre-paid by "its current citizens" and not "future citizens" . Govt. should live within its means and should be a role model for its citizens

    A bankrupt govt. means a bankrupt nation leading everyone to bankruptacy
    Exactly!! It's our government that created this mess and now they want us, not them, to pay for it. If they would have stayed out of this years ago we wouldn't have this mess.
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  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador meadowmufn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomers
    Capitalism house cleaning...
    Yeah, I think Boomers pretty much nailed it. Markets occasionally punish the, to borrow a phrase from our industry, blackhats (and even greyhats). I think that's what we're seeing. I think that the markets will stabilize whether or not Congress acts, once the "house cleaning" is through and the financially sound companies are left standing.

    The economy is cyclical and America resilient. We've been in worse situations before and recovered just fine. I do feel bad for the folks most affected by this and I'm fortunate enough not to be one of them so far. Unless you count the fact that my stock portfolio has taken a bit of a spanking, but I'm not all that worried about it. It'll be back. It might get worse before it gets better, but it'll be back.

    Don't panic, folks. Panic will just make it worse.
    -Don't criticize anyone til you've walked a mile in their shoes. Then when you do criticize them, you'll be a mile away and have their shoes.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtagdeals
    BORROWING = EVIL
    DEBT = EVIL
    CREDIT FREEZE FOREVER = GOOD LONG TERM

    I am prepared to SUFFER the consequences of CREDIT FREEZE and I know it will be terrible DECADE or so to go through this

    But I will be happy to do it so we all can leave a better tomorrow for our kids
    Red

    No your not. I guarantee you you are not.

    When the factories stop buzzing, the products you sell don't get made and the Professional Truckers can't buy fuel cuz there are no more com checks {this is credit based} and employees will be unemployed so they can't afford to buy jack shit anyway, and you won't either unless you got the big big buck, cuz it will be hard to get unless you can move to cuba or have it shipped in. See what I'm saying. You'd ever see the US go to that point with out years of weaning the system off their crack habit way way in advance, You'll be ****ed. We all will be. Thats fact.

    Haiko never mentioned how intertwined the entire system is in the US. {I get it wasn't part of his point}. You think people on ABW get mad and squirmy when a asks for a magic bullet and some hand holding sir, Wait till this the thing goes the way you mentioned. It'll be chaos and war and we'll all be holding hands. It'll even get to the point that the gutys who write nasty things to me on ABW will even ask me for help ! Ouch. Thats gotta hurt.

    The world is like a sewer my man, it's all inter connected. When a piece of the system breaks or stops up, your bath tub is gonna be full of shit 2000 mlz away. YUK !!

    This bail out is utter bullshit. The jerks asking for the money and giving it away are going to band aid a cancer victim. Thats how most people are in the world. Worse, no one will stand up to them. Just ***** and wave their signs.

    The fact is, this bail out is a huge huge opportunity foir ALL amercans and it is about to get friggin wasted. People are blind and stupid I suppose.

    This is a chance to take a **** up and penalise the bastards and monetize it at the same time. We can pay that debt off in 40 years flat and turn 11.3 trillion in debt into a 20+ trillion dollar credit over time. AAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHG !!!! Every man woman and chgild for the next 20 generations can benefit from this.

    Red. My man. This is a very very big deal. I assure you. No you can't.

    Believe that.

    Steve
    DreamLinux.net | Registered Linux User 453976 | PM me to view our sites. It's a Google thing.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust
    10,365.45 -777.68 -6.98%

    http://moneycentral.msn.com/detail/s...INDU&GT1=33002

    Damn. What are people's thoughts on the bailout or what used to be the bailout, still could be later on? Saw that the House voted no on it. Should they have said yes?
    Trust

    I hope it goes down to 5000. I will own hundreds of thousands of shares.

    Hmmmmmmm........ Hundreds of thousands of shares ???

    K. I get it. Haiko, How much would you sell ABW to me for ??



    Steve
    DreamLinux.net | Registered Linux User 453976 | PM me to view our sites. It's a Google thing.

  22. #22
    Prince of Content Vinny O'Hare's Avatar
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    I am shocked we only went down 777 today, I am expecting that drop everyday until something is done.
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  23. #23
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    To you Steve - I'd give you a break, a cool million - cash only, Offer valid for 5 days only.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador meadowmufn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    To you Steve - I'd give you a break, a cool million - cash only, Offer valid for 5 days only.
    Haiko, how could you say that! ABW is priceless. Besides, I'd rather YOU run it. No offense, Steve.
    -Don't criticize anyone til you've walked a mile in their shoes. Then when you do criticize them, you'll be a mile away and have their shoes.
    - Silence is golden. Duct Tape is silver.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboysfan
    i'm pissed at all sides. i'm tired of these political parties, the pointing of fingers..it's all political pandering and its a joke. our government is failing us now..we need a freakin' 3rd party or something. these people worked all last week and the weekend compromising on this bill and they don't pass it.....wtf.
    damn, i'm so angry today i can't even make sense.

    CF

    Haven't heard from u in a while, sup ?

    No, what we need is people who give a shit sabout the entire thing right down to the mop buckets, instead of these people who ignore the details and only care about themselves in the moment. I watch mothers do this crap w/ their children in Wal*Mart ! They're not doing it cuz they're broke.

    Their doing it cuz in part they don't give a shit and they are lazy. Polititions are not required to be biz men. They are lawyers. This is a money game.

    Ignorrance + Self interest/ living in the moment = People fighting like a barrel full of chimpanzees on crack.

    We need a total approach. Six sigma style perhaps ?

    Steve
    DreamLinux.net | Registered Linux User 453976 | PM me to view our sites. It's a Google thing.

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