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  1. #1
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    Website Design; Roll Your Own or Outsource
    Hi

    Ok. Before I begin my question:

    1: Do NOT post here if you cannot help me find a person/ solution.

    2: do not flame me or tell me I need to start over, since that is not an option. If
    it was, I would have done it already.

    3: names and numbers would be great.


    OK. So I hired this guy to build my shell. He is still the best in the biz hands down. He is VERY VERY well known. I picked him cuz he has done work for some big name guys and has an impeccible reputation.

    I can't say his name cuz I am not going to get anything good out of it. Besides, I still like the guy, even if he has lost interest in me.

    I paid him 735 USD for the shell I have, cash, no strings withj the agreement that he would work on my site as needed every month at the rate of a hundered dollars a month {or 200 USD/ mo if I needed more work that month} and he would determain what equates to being worth 100 of his time, ie on graphic, one hour ect.

    Now he has told me that he is only interested in big projects.

    My dilemma is simple.

    I can't pay a lump sum to start over.

    I can't fix what I have, I tried thats why it is messed up.

    I have not found a maintanence man, or a guy that wants to fix this, tweak that {Most guys don't love somebody elses elephant} few wanna work on some one elses stuff, etc. etc.

    I ordered new templates, which is fine, they'll be up in a few weeks or so. But that really is a stop gap and does not fix the issue.

    A book at this point is like toothpaste for mouth cancer. I need to read it and learn it, but that does not address the issue.

    A} how to talk to the guy and get him to spend one hour/ month on my site ?

    B} what's the best way to find a guy that will ?

    C} Know any one ?

    Steve
    Last edited by Boomers; October 1st, 2008 at 02:23 PM. Reason: Renamed from "What To Do When You Are Abandoned ???....." and moved to the Newbie FAQs forum.
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  2. #2
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveWilliams
    A book at this point is like toothpaste for mouth cancer. I need to read it and learn it, but that does not address the issue.

    No, it teaches you how to fix it not just today but forever, cut the crap read the damn book and stop blaming others or looking for someone else to do your own work, either you get it or you don't and if you don't then it's not in your long term best interest to continue along this path.

    Get to learning or get to going, plain and simple!

    BTW, the book that I promised you should have been there last week.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  3. #3
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    I really do not wish to be mean.

    However, this is probably going to seem mean.

    Sorry.

    But, reading your posts in the past, it really does seem that you should not be in this business at all.

    Find something that you are good at, and move on.

    I don't know you, but you do seem like you have no idea what you are doing.

  4. #4
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    Hi Steve, just my two cents worth here
    how to talk to the guy and get him to spend one hour/ month on my site ?
    I don't think you will change his mind. If it matters, I could tell you why he made that decision, as I've done the same (with my clients).

    Have you looked at rentacoder dot com? Another related service is designquote dot net.

    It's free to post your project, you can be as specific as you want, and you get to "interview" potential developers/designers as much as you like (through their interface). You can set your budget, and stick to it.

    Hire someone to do site a number of "tweaks" right off the bat. You won't be starting over, and the new designer will know exactly what they are taking on (an existing site!).

    As for budget/demographic - it's up to you. Personally, I found a terrific developer who does work for me (not design, but development) based in the US - I usually open the bidding to developing countries. You will be surprised at how much interest you will receive in your project.

    I've posted little projects ($50 to build a quick php-copy script), and more advanced scripts for data import. Obviously I have no affiliation with these sites, but if you take the time to post a project & screen bidders, you may find someone you can work with.

    (PS. you haven't been abandoned, your designer made a business decision, that's all)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    No, it teaches you how to fix it not just today but forever, cut the crap read the damn book and stop blaming others or looking for someone else to do your own work, either you get it or you don't and if you don't then it's not in your long term best interest to continue along this path.

    Get to learning or get to going, plain and simple!

    BTW, the book that I promised you should have been there last week.
    OK. I'll get home eventually.


    We are based in Oakland, CA and would be open to either:
    1-an onsite manager who wants to grow with the company
    2-an offsite manager who is willing to kick off the program and train our team to take it over in 6 months

    We are excellent at sales and relationship management, but not as strong on the technical side. We need someone who knows how (or has a programmer on hand) to build an in house tracking system and integrate it into our system. You must also be comfortable with the basic technical pieces of managing affiliates: troubleshooting tracking issues, placing pixels, adding sub-ids, and placing banners.

    We would ideally like someone with experience in the services side of affiliate marketing and has a strong understanding of lead generation.
    Whats the difference between this guy and me ?

    Money Or Nothing ?

    Oh well.

    Thanks anyway.

    Steve
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  6. #6
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    The difference is that the blind can't lead the blind, you need to have some idea about how to put a page together. You want to start marathon running when you keep shooting your knees out with a shotgun. Sit, read, learn at least the principles and structure then and only then can you cognitively tell someone (who you can pay) what to do and you'll know it's right or you can fix it, because ... now get this .... this is the most important part .... it's your money ... your earnings and until you can make it no one can make it for you. Make Sense?
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  7. #7
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Please don't take me or anyone here telling you the truth the wrong way, yes it may hurt but it's always the best ... it means people really want to help.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by teezone
    Hi Steve, just my two cents worth here I don't think you will change his mind. If it matters, I could tell you why he made that decision, as I've done the same (with my clients).

    Have you looked at rentacoder dot com? Another related service is designquote dot net.

    It's free to post your project, you can be as specific as you want, and you get to "interview" potential developers/designers as much as you like (through their interface). You can set your budget, and stick to it.

    Hire someone to do site a number of "tweaks" right off the bat. You won't be starting over, and the new designer will know exactly what they are taking on (an existing site!).

    As for budget/demographic - it's up to you. Personally, I found a terrific developer who does work for me (not design, but development) based in the US - I usually open the bidding to developing countries. You will be surprised at how much interest you will receive in your project.

    I've posted little projects ($50 to build a quick php-copy script), and more advanced scripts for data import. Obviously I have no affiliation with these sites, but if you take the time to post a project & screen bidders, you may find someone you can work with.

    (PS. you haven't been abandoned, your designer made a business decision, that's all)
    Tee

    Awesome post Tee ! THANKS.

    No I never heard of these guys, but I will try them asap !

    As for the great guy, I figure he needed the money at the time cuz otherwise he would not have taken it in the first place. As far as the promises he made goes ? A deal is a deal, and an hour is no big deal so I just decided that till he comes back {If ever} I'm going to Read the book {Eventually I'll get it} AND take a pro active step. No complaints. After all, he came alonmg at a good time, and this is common in biz. I'm happy he came along.

    I have several changes I need made.

    After listening to Haiko over and over {And over again}, I am getting constant traffic as he said I would {my numbers are way down, but steady which is good} so now that I've gotten to this point {plus the fact I need a few of the repairs I made burned directly into my css file permanently, etc.} I am ready to try a few new thing I learned about.

    Despite Haikos seemingly angry remarks, He has spent a great deal of time with me and I have gotten a lot out of it in the past. {Thanks for the help H !}

    I will try to keep you posted on the result.

    Thanks again Teee !

    Continued Success !

    Steve
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    The difference is that the blind can't lead the blind, you need to have some idea about how to put a page together. You want to start marathon running when you keep shooting your knees out with a shotgun. Sit, read, learn at least the principles and structure then and only then can you cognitively tell someone (who you can pay) what to do and you'll know it's right or you can fix it, because ... now get this .... this is the most important part .... it's your money ... your earnings and until you can make it no one can make it for you. Make Sense?
    to you yes. coming from you. yes. but you and I need to sit down and have a talk.

    Your Ideas about wanting the best are sound, I'm as bad as you are about perfection. but there are obviously some things you believe with me that you don't necessarily believe with the guys that bought your financial freedom, sir.

    That needs to be addressed. And it it needs to change.

    Try asking me in person how I REALLY see things. I'm not afraid.

    Ask me what I mean I'll tell you. Point blank.

    Please don't take me or anyone here telling you the truth the wrong way, yes it may hurt but it's always the best ... it means people really want to help.

    Haiko. Look it man. We need to talk. I know you wanna help. I'm glad you did.
    With out you I'd be no where near as far as I have gotten. Thats a fact.

    I appreciate every little thing you have done. I honestly do.

    Obviously you misunderstand the situation a little bit, and that cannot {and should not EVER} be addressed here. for various reasons.

    I agree with much of what you are thinking/ saying but again, we need to sit down and talk. Period.

    Again, I aknowledge your contributions, and I thank you for it publicly.

    Continued Success

    Steve
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julian
    I really do not wish to be mean.

    However, this is probably going to seem mean.

    Sorry.

    But, reading your posts in the past, it really does seem that you should not be in this business at all.

    Find something that you are good at, and move on.

    I don't know you, but you do seem like you have no idea what you are doing.
    Julian

    No. You do not seem mean. You are just wanting me to find something that simply comes naturally.

    I get it.

    You miss the point.

    knowledge is gained by conversation.

    Steve
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  11. #11
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    As a point of reference to some here...

    Someone close to me runs a (fun) fan site - she has hardly any web-pub/design knowledge & does everything herself. She refuses my help (as a web pro & friend) because she wants to do it herself.

    Her site would be ripped to shreds if she asked for a review here.

    But... she's a terrific writer, and has a VERY clever wit. Her readers love her style. As a result, she draws 30,000 visitors each day. That's right, 30k. Her traffic blows the roof off my carefully-designed & manicured affiliate site.

    The "design" of a website only supports the concept.

    And Steve, don't take it personally. The designer didn't "need" your money - you hired him to do a job. From my own experience, it takes effort to continue dealing with a lot of clients/websites. I can't get emotionally involved either, I just want to to take direction. Nor do I like it when they ask me "what do you think?", as they're not paying me enough for that!

    Every hour I spend in email/phone dialogue costs me revenue. It's not personal, there are only so many hours in a day. So your guy made a decision to no longer commit. It happens.

    Just work on making changes to your site & move forward.. post a project on rentacoder, or browse their site to see what type of work others are asking for. If you're trying to build a business, put personal stuff aside, it gets in the way of getting the job done (that applies to everyone, including myself from time to time!).

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by teezone
    Her site would be ripped to shreds if she asked for a review here.
    This is a really good point. Bottom line is... it's about the content, not the design. Look at craigslist. Ugly site, but one of the most successful websites out there.

    But... when content is lacking, a well designed site does go aways in making up for it's deficiencies. Now SERP ranking is another story.



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  13. #13
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    when content is lacking, a well designed site does go aways in making up for it's deficiencies
    Absolutely! ... good point, back at ya

    It's easy to accomplish if you're a design professional, but for most of us, a good idea will go further...

  14. #14
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    thinking back to your site

    get rid of the two side navigation put it all on one side and let the content of the golden can or whatever that is determine the length....bare minimum it's going to display better

    play with whatever html editor you have, enough with the hand coding? it's not working for you. start with a simple 2 cell table navigation on one side, with the content inserted on the other. shoot for a realistic display size i remember yours as being much bigger that others use. once that works expand from there

    bottom line if you have to pay someone to do this you might be better off doing something else....so learn it or leave it if you don't understand it find something that fits and you better and you will at least be richer on the inside ;-)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbshouse
    thinking back to your site

    get rid of the two side navigation put it all on one side and let the content of the golden can or whatever that is determine the length....bare minimum it's going to display better

    play with whatever html editor you have, enough with the hand coding? it's not working for you. start with a simple 2 cell table navigation on one side, with the content inserted on the other. shoot for a realistic display size i remember yours as being much bigger that others use. once that works expand from there

    bottom line if you have to pay someone to do this you might be better off doing something else....so learn it or leave it if you don't understand it find something that fits and you better and you will at least be richer on the inside ;-)
    Mr. B

    The changes are on the way. Good call.

    I'm pummled by calls all the time from people who develop / manage site for a living and they are not telling these guys {Or me} to either quit whining or go home. Why have you not posted this message in the california dudes forum ? He actually wants a guy to TEACH him at home {see above post please} yet I am teated like a ____ r here and he is not ?

    Hmmmm...... Ther's something ****ed up about that deal.

    Did I just ask this question twice ?

    Steve
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  16. #16
    general fuq mrbshouse's Avatar
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    lots of good advice here and in your other threads follow your heart

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by teezone
    As a point of reference to some here...

    Someone close to me runs a (fun) fan site - she has hardly any web-pub/design knowledge & does everything herself. She refuses my help (as a web pro & friend) because she wants to do it herself.

    Her site would be ripped to shreds if she asked for a review here.

    But... she's a terrific writer, and has a VERY clever wit. Her readers love her style. As a result, she draws 30,000 visitors each day. That's right, 30k. Her traffic blows the roof off my carefully-designed & manicured affiliate site.

    The "design" of a website only supports the concept.

    And Steve, don't take it personally. The designer didn't "need" your money - you hired him to do a job. From my own experience, it takes effort to continue dealing with a lot of clients/websites. I can't get emotionally involved either, I just want to to take direction. Nor do I like it when they ask me "what do you think?", as they're not paying me enough for that!

    Every hour I spend in email/phone dialogue costs me revenue. It's not personal, there are only so many hours in a day. So your guy made a decision to no longer commit. It happens.

    Just work on making changes to your site & move forward.. post a project on rentacoder, or browse their site to see what type of work others are asking for. If you're trying to build a business, put personal stuff aside, it gets in the way of getting the job done (that applies to everyone, including myself from time to time!).
    Tee

    Sometimes its personal, sometimes its not. Most of the time people just don't give a shit and try to justify why its OK to brush some one aside. Why white wash it ?

    It is what it is.

    I will take your suggestion and post asap.

    As far as the other stuff goes. I think you'd be floored if you knew what I really thought. This ain't my first rodeo.

    Thanks for helping me out. I needed that. I hope that in the future you will address the more leaning off topic stuff in a PM.

    Thanks again Teee !!!!!

    Steve
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbshouse
    lots of good advice here and in your other threads follow your heart
    NOTE: Please ref post #5; Quote #2, tnx.

    Mr. B

    Yep. Many are just what I was thinking too. Some are just way off and I have visions of dancing in my head.

    Anyway all fun aside. I'm trying to tell people what I need and I'm being flamed or told to quit. Only a few are listening to me. The sorry fact is that buisiness is business. people hire people all the time. Yet you have not told them to quit. Yet I'll bet you never will tell me why.

    I have gotten lots of help. Yes. I needed it. Still do. I'm telling you what's missing and I get rebuffed. Hell even disrespected.

    Here's a good example Mr. B: You have spent a great deal of time here with me. {BTW: Thank you sir}. So I realise it is your time to do with as you please. No arguments there. But why did you choose to tell me to go fall on my sword instead of telling me that I can try pm'g so and so he works by the hour ??

    When I ask for help why scream at me like I am a whore or go !! ??

    Why ??

    How is that meant to be helpful ?

    all these words I am posting here. Don't they just side track the issue ?

    The off topic stuff. Doesn't that just turn my thread into a circus ?

    I think some of you guys deliberately do this shit cuz it is entertaining and you get a charge out of it. Then I just ask Haiko to delete the friggin think cuz it's counter productive.

    You don't think telling me to quit is not arrogant ?

    What do you think would be the out come if I posted your comments in the California dudes forum ? {NOTE: Please ref post #5; Quote #2, tnx.}

    Telling a dude to quit is not good advice. ~ It's a lot like a woman saying she was raped and you tell her to jump in front of a train cuz that will fix her problem. What kinda shit is that ?

    Continued Success

    Steve
    Last edited by Steve Williams; September 30th, 2008 at 09:35 PM. Reason: spelling. beachy, help......
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  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador Boom or Bust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveWilliams
    What do you think would be the out come if I posted your comments in the California dudes forum ?
    Steve, what's the California dudes forum?



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  20. #20
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomers
    Steve, what's the California dudes forum?
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=110928


    Ed. Man will you clean up the crap in this thread ? PUH LEEEEEZZZZZ man.

    Why did you not get my PM ?

    Steve

    BTW: Congrats on your new mod position man.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    Haiko.

    Yep. I had a hard time finding it.

    Steve
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  23. #23
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    I searched for the quoted text in G
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  24. #24
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    As for the circus ... you need to get a basic understanding of how this is supposed to work ... not just the process but also the inner workings!!! 780 posts later we are still saying the same things ... learn the process, if your not willing to then your wasting your time.

    Here .... Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to use the Net and he can become a super affiliate - Haiko

    The problem is that it sounds like you want to sit in the boat and enjoy a beer instead.

    *Note man/him/he meaning human male or female.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  25. #25
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    Steve, VERY inappropriate comments... wh*ore.. r*pe..??? Are you kidding me..? Show some respect. I'm out now.

    I don't visit this forum, or offer my free advice to other members, to read comments like this.

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