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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador ladidah's Avatar
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    Adsense Ads on The Hairstyler
    Just looked at a merchant that would be perfect for one of my sites. Actually already signed up with them and don't have any links up yet. Took a closer look last night and found....Leaks, leaks, leaks on almost every page. What? Google Adsense ads and with some promoting your own competitors?

  2. #2
    Beachy Bill's Avatar
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    Unbelievable, thanks for the heads up. I've wondered why my conversions have been going down - but haven't taken the time to look at their site.

    Shame, too, because The Hairstyler has been a sweet little producer for me for the last couple of years. There is a lot of competition in the "hair" niche - lots of other things to promote - even AdSense works well on some pages of my hairstyle sites.
    Bill / Marketing Blog @ 12PM - Current project: Resurrecting my "baby" at South Baltimore..
    Cute Personal Checks and Business Checks
    If you are too busy to laugh you are too busy.

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador ladidah's Avatar
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    Do you know if there is a similar merchant out there?

    I looked at their stats and it does not seem that bad. I bet it would be better if they took those ads off. This seem to be a good niche and a possible demand for this.

    OK, took a quick look for merchants in similar category. Found another one with leaks:

    * makeoversolutions (SAS) - Adsense ads, other banner ads

  4. #4
    Beachy Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladidah
    Do you know if there is a similar merchant out there?

    I looked at their stats and it does not seem that bad. I bet it would be better if they took those ads off. This seem to be a good niche and a possible demand for this.

    OK, took a quick look for merchants in similar category.
    Found another one with leaks:

    * makeoversolutions (SAS) - Adsense ads, other banner ads
    Yeah, I had tried MakeoverSolutions a while back - didn't convert too well. There is also Hair-Styles-Cuts-And-Dos .com. They worked pretty well for a couple of years, but have had server and tracking problems (zero tracking) for the last four months. I had to totally drop them (after having had over a thousand sales with them).

    I just checked The Hairstyler again this morning. NOW I AM ALSO SEEING KONTERA ADS on several pages of narrative. Soooooo...my short-term plan will be to replace all of their links, on my most popular "hair" site, with AdSense for a couple of weeks to see how it goes.
    Bill / Marketing Blog @ 12PM - Current project: Resurrecting my "baby" at South Baltimore..
    Cute Personal Checks and Business Checks
    If you are too busy to laugh you are too busy.

  5. #5
    Outsourced Program Manager RogerSnow's Avatar
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    Hi Bill/Ladidah,

    I am not pleased that they have taken this action. My belief is that NO ads should be on a retail site or any site that has a purchase involved.

    I can assure you that I will be speaking with them today to discuss removing them.

    Sorry for the inconvenience. Please contact me anytime if something like this arises in the future from one of our merchants.
    Roger Snow | Team Manager | Snow Consulting, Inc.
    email: info AT snow-consulting.com | View Our Clients & Affiliate Blogs | MSN: ramschamps@hotmail.com | AIM: RogerColorGuy | GoogleTalk: snowconsulting9 | Skype: snowconsulting

  6. #6
    Outsourced Program Manager RogerSnow's Avatar
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    Hey Guys,

    I wanted to let you know that I spoke several times with head office about the ads. After all the discussions regarding leaks, losing commissions etc etc, they understood and have removed ALL ads.

    Please feel free to resume your relationship with TheHairStyler.com. I will continue to take care of any and all issues that may arise. Let me know if you need anything or have questions.

    I am here to help!
    Roger Snow | Team Manager | Snow Consulting, Inc.
    email: info AT snow-consulting.com | View Our Clients & Affiliate Blogs | MSN: ramschamps@hotmail.com | AIM: RogerColorGuy | GoogleTalk: snowconsulting9 | Skype: snowconsulting

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador ladidah's Avatar
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    Hi Roger,

    Thank you doing this for affiliates like us. They cleaned up some ads but not all.

    There are still leaks everywhere. Maybe we need to give the Hairstyler a fine toothcomb for Christmas

    www. thehairstyler. com/hair_stylists.asp (Adsense)
    www. thehairstyler. com/movie_music_reviews.asp (Adsense)
    www. thehairstyler. com/popular_hairstyles.asp (Kontera ads)

    I just picked some random pages. I didn't go through the entire site but from the few that I looked at, they still have them in.

  8. #8
    Outsourced Program Manager RogerSnow's Avatar
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    I will work with them tonight and get ALL of them cleared off the site. This is a good start. Thanks Ladidah.
    Roger Snow | Team Manager | Snow Consulting, Inc.
    email: info AT snow-consulting.com | View Our Clients & Affiliate Blogs | MSN: ramschamps@hotmail.com | AIM: RogerColorGuy | GoogleTalk: snowconsulting9 | Skype: snowconsulting

  9. #9
    Outsourced Program Manager RogerSnow's Avatar
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    We went through the entire site last night and removed ALL ads. If for some reason you find a page that contains ads, please let me know. I don'tthink you well.

    Let me know if you have any further questions. Talk to you soon.

    Thanks to all the Veterans!
    Roger Snow | Team Manager | Snow Consulting, Inc.
    email: info AT snow-consulting.com | View Our Clients & Affiliate Blogs | MSN: ramschamps@hotmail.com | AIM: RogerColorGuy | GoogleTalk: snowconsulting9 | Skype: snowconsulting

  10. #10
    Beachy Bill's Avatar
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    Unfortunately...

    Today I added an article to one of my hair sites and put a link back for The Hairstyler. Upon checking the link (it did register in SAS) I found that not only are AdSense ads appearing but Kontera in-context ads have been added as well.

    Here is a sample page: http://www.thehairstyler.com/lovely_layers.asp - and, yes, that is after going to it through an aff link.

    Drat. I guess I'm going to pull all aff links for a while and strictly use AdSense and Kontera or AdSense and Chitika on a couple of my hair sites and do some A-B testing of my own. No time right now however, but maybe after the holidays.
    Bill / Marketing Blog @ 12PM - Current project: Resurrecting my "baby" at South Baltimore..
    Cute Personal Checks and Business Checks
    If you are too busy to laugh you are too busy.

  11. #11
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    Is this merchant removing the ads, then letting you see that they have been removed, and then adding them back?

    They were going to be on my site.

  12. #12
    Outsourced Program Manager RogerSnow's Avatar
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    The remaining ads that you see will be gone by the end of this month. It was part of the contract that they had. They are only on a few pages and don't appear each time the time displays. Starting January 1st, you will not see anything. Let me know if you have any other questions or concerns regarding this.
    Roger Snow | Team Manager | Snow Consulting, Inc.
    email: info AT snow-consulting.com | View Our Clients & Affiliate Blogs | MSN: ramschamps@hotmail.com | AIM: RogerColorGuy | GoogleTalk: snowconsulting9 | Skype: snowconsulting

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSnowman
    The remaining ads that you see will be gone by the end of this month. It was part of the contract that they had. They are only on a few pages and don't appear each time the time displays. Starting January 1st, you will not see anything. Let me know if you have any other questions or concerns regarding this.

    If that is the case, then I will add them to my site as planned

  14. #14
    Outsourced Program Manager RogerSnow's Avatar
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    Please do. We are also in the middle of planning other pricing options. It should help increase conversion even more as we head into the main season (graduation, prom, wedding etc). I will keep everyone informed as we move forward.
    Roger Snow | Team Manager | Snow Consulting, Inc.
    email: info AT snow-consulting.com | View Our Clients & Affiliate Blogs | MSN: ramschamps@hotmail.com | AIM: RogerColorGuy | GoogleTalk: snowconsulting9 | Skype: snowconsulting

  15. #15
    Beachy Bill's Avatar
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    Uh-Oh! Looks like the leaks are back. Adsense 728x90 Leaderboards in the header and across the bottom and a 160x600 Skyscraper on the right side. Plus there are Kontera in-text pop-ups throughout the narrative. Looks like they have just about maxed out the possible leaks on their pages.

    I can't really say I blame them for picking up the extra revenue (but they sure aren't doing affiliates any favors). I am sure they earn 5-figures and possibly/probably into 6-figures with those ads; especially so, if a lot of affiliates are adding to their natural traffic.
    Bill / Marketing Blog @ 12PM - Current project: Resurrecting my "baby" at South Baltimore..
    Cute Personal Checks and Business Checks
    If you are too busy to laugh you are too busy.

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador ladidah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill
    Looks like they have just about maxed out the possible leaks on their pages.

    I can't really say I blame them for picking up the extra revenue (but they sure aren't doing affiliates any favors). I am sure they earn 5-figures and possibly/probably into 6-figures with those ads; especially so, if a lot of affiliates are adding to their natural traffic.
    They may be earning 5-6 figures from those ads but that is because they are taking the money from affiliates and putting it in their own pocket. Talk about maxing out on ads.....

  17. #17
    Outsourced Program Manager RogerSnow's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,

    Yes, the ads are back and for a reason. We will be having an announcement over the next couple of days in our June newsletter pertaining to TheHairStyler.com and their business model.

    It is exciting news and I hope we all can gain alot of momentum with it. Talk to you shortly!
    Roger Snow | Team Manager | Snow Consulting, Inc.
    email: info AT snow-consulting.com | View Our Clients & Affiliate Blogs | MSN: ramschamps@hotmail.com | AIM: RogerColorGuy | GoogleTalk: snowconsulting9 | Skype: snowconsulting

  18. #18
    Beachy Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSnowman
    Hi Guys,

    Yes, the ads are back and for a reason. We will be having an announcement over the next couple of days in our June newsletter pertaining to TheHairStyler.com and their business model.

    It is exciting news and I hope we all can gain alot of momentum with it. Talk to you shortly!
    Sorry Roger, June is too long, all but the most basic links to TheHairstyler (and anything else) will be gone over the weekend. I just looked at the THS site this morning after reading their latest email newsletter (about BOB hairstyles, the focus of my sites). I was shocked to see the AdS and Chitika back - unannounced.

    I, too, am changing the business model on my two "hair" sites. I plan to replace just about everything with Ad Sense - already earning mid 4-figs, should (hope to) be able to push it to 5 figures. I also have tried Chitika (where THS is using Kontera) and have been pleased with those results. My readers show up to look at our pictures - don't buy much - but evidently do click on related ads.
    Bill / Marketing Blog @ 12PM - Current project: Resurrecting my "baby" at South Baltimore..
    Cute Personal Checks and Business Checks
    If you are too busy to laugh you are too busy.

  19. #19
    Outsourced Program Manager RogerSnow's Avatar
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    I might as well tell you now instead of waiting. TheHairStyler.com is set to launch a brand new web site, new look etc and offer their service for free. The ads will be there source of revenue. They are expecting a minimum of 10 times the conversion as the service will be free and not $9.95. The default commission will be $.20 per sign-up through ShareaSale. We will be monitoring all statistics for the first few weeks to ensure all of our affiliate partners are getting proper compensation. If we need to raise the commission, we will do so.

    All the banners and text links will be updated to show the No Cost service instead of $9.95. This will increase CTR as people love Free vs paying.

    We are very excited about this and hope that everyone hops on board and continues to drive alot of sign-ups.

    Send me any and all questions to my email address below. I am here to help.
    Roger Snow | Team Manager | Snow Consulting, Inc.
    email: info AT snow-consulting.com | View Our Clients & Affiliate Blogs | MSN: ramschamps@hotmail.com | AIM: RogerColorGuy | GoogleTalk: snowconsulting9 | Skype: snowconsulting

  20. #20
    Beachy Bill's Avatar
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    Interesting, indeed. I'll be keeping an eye on it. There definitely is $$ in third party in-context advertising (Goog, Yahoo, Kontera, Chitica, etc).
    Bill / Marketing Blog @ 12PM - Current project: Resurrecting my "baby" at South Baltimore..
    Cute Personal Checks and Business Checks
    If you are too busy to laugh you are too busy.

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador ladidah's Avatar
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    If you are planning to make an announcement about the change in business model in JUNE but have already implemented the changes (ads everywhere), you need to email affiliates about it NOW. They can then make an informed decision whether they want to loose a visitor to you or not.

    Me: all my links are coming down.

  22. #22
    Outsourced Program Manager RogerSnow's Avatar
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    I'm sorry you feel this way. Some people will see the positive in this as conversion will sky rocket due to the service being free. We are hoping that affiliate partners will make more than before due to this. The change will not be made until July 1st. We will be describing all the changes, additions and revisions to the site and service very soon in the newsletter. We feel that giving everyone a month is ample amount of time to make an informed decision. Again, if you have any questions, please feel free to email or call me anytime. We want to this to be a good change, not bad.
    Roger Snow | Team Manager | Snow Consulting, Inc.
    email: info AT snow-consulting.com | View Our Clients & Affiliate Blogs | MSN: ramschamps@hotmail.com | AIM: RogerColorGuy | GoogleTalk: snowconsulting9 | Skype: snowconsulting

  23. #23
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    Thanks snowman for letting us know to not only avoid this but all your programs. No other way to put it but that this is one hell of a leaky site and you are capitalizing on currently not compensating affiliate traffic. Why shareasale allows this is beyond me, but they seem to allow this more and more.

    If you think making the changes and informing the affiliates after the act is exciting news, you are one to steer clear of.

    Affiliates need to stop being idiotic choice whipping boys. When a merchant or opm treats you like this, time to say goodbye.

  24. #24
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    Roger, while I can appreciate that The Hairstyler must make decisions that they feel will give them the greatest chance of success, you must also realize that your affiliates deserve the opportunity to make, as Ladidah stated, an informed decision regarding changes in your program. And while I can understand The Hairstyler's excitement about their new business model, they may have somewhat overestimated our glee.

    I'm really confused as to how you/they thought that Adsense would be acceptable to their affiliates after the previous protest regarding the leaks on The Hairstyler. The fact that they're moving to a new business model doesn't make the leaks any more palatable. On the contrary, their affiliates would need to convert at a rate 12 to 25 times greater in order to maintain the same income level with the new commission structure. And while I understand that you're expecting a 10 fold increase in conversions, without seeing how those numbers were derived, I can only assume that they are pure speculation.

    Also without knowing exactly how much traffic is being diverted by leaks, let's just assume that there would need to be an increase in targeted traffic. If as you stated "the ads will be their source of revenue", we can only assume that they are looking at diverting a considerable amount of affiliate traffic.

    The fact that you are tying to sell these changes to your affiliates as a benefit is disingenuous at best. I can't think of one case where a leaky merchant was of benefit to it's affiliates. As far as I can see, the only way that a leaky merchant can fairly compensate affiliates is by utilizing a PPC model. Pay for the clicks and you can do whatever you want with them. Anything less is free advertising and totally unfair to those that are working hard to drive traffic to them.

    The fact that The Hairstyler sees the need for a new business model is understandable, the fact that affiliates were not notified prior to reintroducing Adsense is totally unacceptable.

    -rematt
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  25. #25
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    Hey Snowman ... why on earth would I want to do anything for 20 cents? Personally, I don't care if you charge $10 or whatever and pay 99% ... 99% of ZERO is still zero.

    I'm not sending you any traffic for a 20 cent lead or even for a $2.00 lead ... but if we are talking a $20 lead, then maybe we can do a deal.

    Now I have NO PROBLEM with Hairstyler going to an all ad based business model. The days of CPA and such are numbered anyway ... same thing happened in radio, then TV and now reality is setting in online.

    You want someone to promote your business, you have to pay them. And a percentage of sales does not cut it. If it did, I could buy an ad on '24' and make a million dollars in one night since well over 20 million watch that show. All I have to do is make FIVE CENTS per visitor on average. Only problem is they will not let me pay after the fact.

    The 'Vanity Game' which is the one you are in here, never goes out of style. So you are at least in the right ballgame. But what you and almost everyone who does business online fails to understand is that the internet is a network and all the money to be made is made in the second click from any location ... IT'S ALL CLICK ARBITRAGE. Can you make more than it costs you to get a visitor (click). How you do it is irrelevant.

    So you really have TWO choices ... pay CPM or CPC. Because for 20 cents, I am not sending jack anybody to Hairstyle. But for 3 cents per click, we may have a deal, provided you can afford to pay me $300 a day for the 10,000 visitors. Otherwise it's not worth my time or expense to do it.

    BTW ... 3 cents per click is the same as $30 CPM. Now if you design the site and the page right you can easily make $500 per day from Adsense and maybe even more when you sell some ads to the big cosemetic companies.

    On the other hand, a business model based on advertising needs traffic at scale to make any money. You will never get any real scale doing CPA.

    So you can expect to spend 5 CENTS per visitor ... if you use SAS ... and pay 3 cents per click plus the add on percentage and your fee ... So they need to make at least 6 cents per click thru to make a profit.

    Piece of cake ... sell 6 CPM ads to the big boys for $10 CPM each ... plug in Adsense in the right spots on the site and you are in business.

    I send you 10,000 USA visitors per day, you pay me $300 ... You get $60 from 6 big boy advertisers, you make $100 profit ... plus whatever money you make from Adsense. Plus, whatever products or services you can sell.

    It's not rocket science. Yahoo Hot Jobs did this all last year ... but they charged way more than $5/CPM ... Their problem today is they WON'T lower their rates and they lost a bunch of business because of it.

    Anyone can make a million per year PROFIT if they make just a ONE CENT profit per unique visitor over the course of a year ... All you need is 100K in traffic per day and to set up your business model to rake in the coin.

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