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  1. #1
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    Anyone seen any of this:

    You refer a visitor to a merchant and your cookie gets set. Your cookie later gets cleared when a Google AdWords ad (or any PPC for that matter) from the merchant gets clicked on. In other words, the PPC visitor is treated like another affiliate. After all, couldn't some merchants feel they shouldn't pay twice for the visitor ... once to the PPC host and second, a commission to you if your cookie had been set prior to the PPC visit.

    I have no idea if anything like this is happening. It's purely hypothetical. I was just wondering if anyone knows if any merchants are doing this.

  2. #2
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I can remember very well arguing with merchants and the networks that the length of the return day cookie was a prime indicator of a merchants ability to convert... Both the networks and the merchants LIED to us through their teeth spinning that return day cookies & landing pages had no major bearing on commision earnings. Basically I was a voice that made the network CRO's and any merchnat seeking a recruiting edge to raise and post their damn ciike durations.

    A whole industry was born and incubated by the networks, because they know they LIED to the masses of affiliates earning peanuts from their major ZERO/1 day merchants. Thus was born the BHO industry who have instant resetting of commission cookie on every transaction The BHO's never show expired cookie sales.

    Not even CJ, in their move to trump LS and BF networks total lack of transparancy, play fair on the demand for return day credits for referred sales. They devise and HID the fact any merchant by DEFAULT could negate the published return day number by only crediting affilates for the first sale then killing the cookie. Could this lack of ethics known to all network industry insiders be the reason CJ was sold for peanuts??

    Affiliates play theft games to set the cookie and the merchant counter forces not wanting to pay commissions (just acquire free traffic) devise ways to kill that commission cookie. Money therefore flows to the POS interloper BHO, who has made the diversion tactics of the merchants worthless and ineffective. Some AM's are just to lazy or stupid to see this.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Jane's Avatar
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    Most merchants are trying to make money selling their products, not sending people off to other sites. Amazon of course is one exception.

  4. #4
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    Just when I thought I have things all figured out, I read a post that MAY show me how ignorant or confused I really might be.

    I always thought that once a cookie is set on your computer it is there for the duration of the time set for that cookie, or until the computer operator clears it by any number of ways that can be done ( my guess is deleting cookies through properties being the most common).

    Now I come here and read that the cookies can be reset blah blah blah...

    I think coming here will start to give me nightmares.

    Might pay to be ignorant if THIS IS IN FACT TRUE and there is nothing I can do about it.

    <font color=blue size="1">"The most successful con artist will have you believing he is the most ethical person you will ever know."</font>

  5. #5
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    I don't see what the problem is. If the Merchant themselves is the last link clicked, then they shouldn't have to pay a commission.

    What if someone clicks on your link and the cookie is set. They shop around and click on another Affiliate's PPC ad and the cookie is updated to the second Affiliate's cookie.

    The commission goes to the last link clicked.

    Just because you manage to set a cookie doesn't mean you get the credit for every sale from here on out.

    AND this is a hypothetical situation! If you can't find a real conspiracy to talk about, you're going to make one up!

    SJohnson@NO_Spam_ClickMagazine.Net
    www.ClickMagazine.Net

  6. #6
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SJohnson:
    What if someone clicks on your link and the cookie is set. They shop around and click on another Affiliate's PPC ad and the cookie is updated to the second Affiliate's cookie.

    The commission goes to the last link clicked.


    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I have lost referrals in other programs before because the page visited before representing the same program got the credit. So the last link clicked getting the credit is not always true, I know this for a fact.

    I think one needs to shut down or refresh to ensure that the last link clicked getting the credit to be always true.

    <font color=blue size="1">"The most successful con artist will have you believing he is the most ethical person you will ever know."</font>

  7. #7
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SJohnson:
    What if someone clicks on your link and the cookie is set. They shop around and click on another Affiliate's PPC ad and the cookie is updated to the second Affiliate's cookie.

    The commission goes to the last link clicked.


    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I have lost referrals in other programs before because the page visited before representing the same program got the credit. So the last link clicked getting the credit is not always true, I know this for a fact.

    I think one needs to shut down or refresh to ensure that the last link clicked getting the credit to be always true.

    <font color=blue size="1">"The most successful con artist will have you believing he is the most ethical person you will ever know."</font>

  8. #8
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    Hey, it is important to realize that this could be different for each merchant. It all depends on what their web programmers did - do they check for a valid affiliate cookie when the visitor first gets to the site? If they find one, do they keep that, OR do they overwrite it with the last clicked affiliate link? It all depends on the merchant....

    Dan

    So many ways to make a buck, so little time...

  9. #9
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Affiliate return day cookies are definitely at risk out there due to competition and shopper browsing during the buying decision process.

    SJohnsen said: " Don't see what the problem is. If the Merchant themselves is the last link clicked, then they shouldn't have to pay a commission."

    Sara there are many merchants who blast out millions of e-mail promotion links almost daily. Some devise these e-mails and even banner advertising links to overwrite any affiliate cookies on the shoppers system. These are the very shoppers who the affiliate referred to their pages in hopes of generating a sale. Only the BHO and they actual merchant have a system in place to overwrite those e-mail promo links killing off the affiliates commision chances. That is why so many merchants shove a e-mail special signup page in the shoppers face before, during and after their first shopping visit.

    Hopefully folks like TigerDirect, Dell & Overstock who send out hundreds of millions of e-mail promo's weekly don't employ this cookie killing process which is hidden by the networks refusing to clearly post diversion tactics in the merchant profiles.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  10. #10
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    "I have no idea if anything like this is happening. It's purely hypothetical."

    Maybe everyone missed this part of the original post.

    Mike, you've taken his post and expanded it FAR beyond the Hypothetical situation he described.

    SJohnson@NO_Spam_ClickMagazine.Net
    www.ClickMagazine.Net

  11. #11
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    There is a big difference IMO between clicking on a ppc ad that an affiliate has placed which overwrites a cookie vs a merchants own ppc ad which overwrites an affiliates cookie.

    I think there are serious issues anytime a merchant overwrites it's affiliates cookies and would view this as a serious conflict of interest that would only serve to further undermine the affiliate agreement.

    Mike has long called for some common identification of a merchants practices. While I don't totally agree with his entire list, it is another important consideration we should see plainly in front of us. It wasn't that long ago we could only speculate about who had what kind of repeat occurances on sales and why we were not privy to see such an important piece of the commission puzzle. I don't see this as being any different.

    Affilite contracts can be and are undermined at so many levels it isn't funny. We deserve all the facts.

    ===================================
    Child labor laws exist yet, parasite partnering merchants (PP Merchants) and the COC allow an adult affiliates income to be diverted into the pockets of parasites and consider it normal business!

    Why give parasites unlimited cookie durations and credit for sales where they divert our users and overwrite our cookies. PP merchants and the COC directly supports what many consider unfair trade practices, identity theft and thievery!

  12. #12
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    "There is a big difference IMO between clicking on a ppc ad that an affiliate has placed which overwrites a cookie vs a merchants own ppc ad which overwrites an affiliates cookie."

    Why? The merchant paid for their own, hypothetically speaking, advertising. Why should they also pay YOU because the buyer visited your site some time ago?

    How is that different if it's another affiliate.

    SJohnson@NO_Spam_ClickMagazine.Net
    www.ClickMagazine.Net

  13. #13
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    don't forget the merchants with the BIG toll-free numbers and url branding all over the place. Many times it is easier for the buyer to just type in the merchant's url than to come back to our sites and hit the link.


    _____
    I earned something? Who screwed up?

  14. #14
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Test for you all to perform. Chart out the sales/conversion stats for major branded merchants with simple to remember short domain names. Browser type-in as well as 800#, live help buttons, merchant mass mailing of cookie overwriting links and 3rd party mass banner Ad campaigns are red flags.

    How many folks type in Dell.com or Walmart.com where the session only cookie guarantees no promotion commission. Only the BHO's have them covered on browser cookie setting typeins. Remember the stats published when Networksolutions redirected all browser address typos to their 404 advertising page? It was 44 million page views in the first 5 days.

    The simple domain name merchant like Dell.com or eCost & Bestbuy get huge browser type-in traffic and only the BHO's clean up on them.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  15. #15
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    Yes, BHOs sour everything.
    These parasites ... where is that toilet?
    I feel like flushing!

  16. #16
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    Actually, I use the same software to track PPC ads as I use to track affiliates' referrals.
    With every single ad being registered as a separate affiliate account - it becomes the best way to calculate and balance ROI.

    I would not be surprised if many other merchants did that.

    Konstantin,
    www.GenericGifts.com
    "All your affiliate are belong to us"

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Happypoon wrote: Affilite contracts can be and are undermined at so many levels it isn't funny. We deserve all the facts.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not disclosing pertinent information in a contract can be detrimental to the offending party in court proceedings. Intentional deception by lack of disclosure is about as bad as an out and out lie.

    Andy

    _______________
    <font color="red">Call the Exterminators! We've Got PARASITES!</font>

  18. #18
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Well this group will remember a year ago I proprosed the CoC reps shove a A-G full disclosure agreement upon the networks and their merchant theftware friendly partnerships. I did my part and no one else did theirs. We all knew that was the only bone we could have forced the networks to throw us.

    Well those Ad Whore mindset AM's and merchants and the theftware enabling networks will be in for some serious media and consumer outrage over Adware/Sypware. I just forwarded this article to an inside contact at Microsoft to be digested..... http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...6&pageNumber=1 ...(PS: the IBM FLASH Ad space on the right will be no more or IBM's butt with be in court alongside their Ad Whore agency and Ad server.)

    I will use every tactic in the book to force the pure play advertising mindset out of this industries boardrooms. The hell with those stupid major branded merchants outsourcing the AM programs to 3rd party Ad Whores. Let them pay the piper in the courtrooms as the online Ad industry crashes and burns on their gorrilla marketing schemes.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Mike and Charlie,

    Just once I wish you guys would stop beating around the bush and speak what's on your mind!



    Andy

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    <font color="red">Call the Exterminators! We've Got PARASITES!</font>

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