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  1. #1
    Newbie mrawesome's Avatar
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    Does using frames in your webpage really make a difference?
    I've read mixed opinions when I researched this. When you use frames in the coding of your websites, do spider bots find them harder to read and therefore do you get a slight ding in search engine placements?

  2. #2
    Newbie mrawesome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrawesome
    I've read mixed opinions when I researched this. When you use frames in the coding of your websites, do spider bots find them harder to read and therefore do you get a slight ding in search engine placements?
    nice typo lol...its 6am here

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador kse's Avatar
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    two questions

    1) What is in the frame? Other pages from your site or affiliate merchants sites?

    2) Are you using iframe ?

  4. #4
    http and a telephoto
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    Why frame? Use SSI or php includes for common areas on a site. Frames don't work properly in all browsers.
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  5. #5
    Outsourced Program Manager TrishaLyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loxly
    Why frame? Use SSI or php includes for common areas on a site. Frames don't work properly in all browsers.
    Still? I thought that was taken care of. Which browsers don't support Frames still? (just curious)

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador ladidah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kse
    two questions

    1) What is in the frame? Other pages from your site or affiliate merchants sites?

    2) Are you using iframe ?
    I have seen affiliates use iframe to frame the merchants on their sites. I thought this was a 'no-no' but perhapst the affiliate has a special agreement? I don't know any other merchant that would allow such a thing besides amazon.

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador kse's Avatar
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    No I do not think put a merchant in a frame in most cases are allowed. I have also received email in the past saying that theeir tracking will not even work if you frame the merchants site (I do not frame sites)

    The reason for the iframe question is due to the fact I spent alot of time and testing iframe for another perpose and to the best of my knowledge anything in a iframe will not be indexed or seen by the search engions.

  8. #8
    More Cheesier Than Ever Cheesehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladidah
    I have seen affiliates use iframe to frame the merchants on their sites. I thought this was a 'no-no' but perhapst the affiliate has a special agreement? I don't know any other merchant that would allow such a thing besides amazon.
    You can frame merchants products via iframe on your own site. This does not set a cookie, but merely loads your own links onto an iframed page. I am trying this now on a page to try to avoid duplicate content penalties. Doesn't seem to be working so far.

    What you can't do is frame a merchant's site via a "hidden iframe" so it automatically loads and results in an involuntary cookie being set. Simple to do and also easy to catch and get you kicked out. I have never tried it, nor will I ever try it.
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  9. #9
    Newbie mrawesome's Avatar
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    I'm looking at a friends site for her and she has the coding very confusing, where can i find the tags for frames or iframes for her? She is getting placement in Google, not a hideous placement at the bottom of page 2 so it cant be all bad. I have started using .php but the changing around is soo tedious. Thanks for all your help to guys keep it coming

  10. #10
    Master of Design AlexBet's Avatar
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    Frames used to be a problem a few years ago because they were also not rendered correctly by some browsers, but that is all history now. Spiders read everything nowadays, and frames are not a problem for them because modern web design includes a lot of use of iframes (which are also frames, just a little different) and I don't know a website that was sanctioned for the use of frames.

    So, I would say that it is pretty safe, but if you are designing your website with frames, make sure they add to the user experience, not take away from it.
    Alex
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  11. #11
    Newbie mrawesome's Avatar
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    for some reason it lags in loading, and the image are bright green just before loading the actual image

  12. #12
    Full Member Tech Evangelist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexBet
    Frames used to be a problem a few years ago because they were also not rendered correctly by some browsers, but that is all history now. Spiders read everything nowadays, and frames are not a problem for them because modern web design includes a lot of use of iframes (which are also frames, just a little different) and I don't know a website that was sanctioned for the use of frames.

    So, I would say that it is pretty safe, but if you are designing your website with frames, make sure they add to the user experience, not take away from it.
    I have to disagree with part of this. While modern browsers get HTML frames correct, search engines still frequently index separate frames as if they were different pages (which technically they are). That results in segments of a page sometimes getting indexed seperately.

    There is a difference between frames and iframes. I've been doing web development and SEO since 1998. IMHO, frames have been obsolete since the 1990s. We won't work on a site that uses frames due to all of the search engine problems we have seen with this design methodology.

    You can simulate frames using CSS, which is not at all the same as old style HTML frames. The only problem we see with that there are some rendering problems across different browsers.

    As far as iframes go, the biggest problem that we see are when all of the content displayed is from a different web site. Search engines see that as zero content on your web page and the page will never rank well. It is OK to use iframes to display ads and a few page elements, but do not use it to display pages from other sites unless you already have a substantial amount of content already on the web page on your server.

    Remember that search engines never "view" or render a web page. They only see the code that you see when you view the code using View, Source.
    Last edited by Tech Evangelist; October 29th, 2008 at 10:05 AM.
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  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador kse's Avatar
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    iframes still have a purpose due to the fact that their content does not get indexed.
    Last edited by kse; October 29th, 2008 at 10:31 AM.

  14. #14
    Full Member Tech Evangelist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kse
    iframes still have a purpose due to the fact that their context does not get indexed.
    From our experience, that is exactly what we have seen. Search engines recognize that iframe content from another site is not part of your web page. Just because you see content with iframes does not mean that a search engine spider will see it.
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  15. #15
    Outsourced Program Manager TrishaLyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kse
    iframes still have a purpose due to the fact that their content does not get indexed.
    Hmm... is that why Amazon Associate network uses iframes?

  16. #16
    Moderator BurgerBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrishaLyn
    Hmm... is that why Amazon Associate network uses iframes?
    Probably...

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  17. #17
    http and a telephoto
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrishaLyn
    Hmm... is that why Amazon Associate network uses iframes?
    And those iframes are a PITA ...
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  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador ladidah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesehead
    You can frame merchants products via iframe on your own site. This does not set a cookie, but merely loads your own links onto an iframed page. I am trying this now on a page to try to avoid duplicate content penalties. Doesn't seem to be working so far.
    It does not set a cookie until the link is clicked. Which is all perfectly legal.

    My only 'issue' here is that that affiliate is showing the merchant's brand name in the iframe which makes the customers think that the site is the merchants'. So to me a bit of misrepresentation is it not.

    By putting merchants' brandname and products in an iframe on your site and if the merchant has brand recognition, can then result in a higher clickthrough. If it's allowed, why are not more affiliates doing this. Well, I am also assuming that the clickthrough is higher..

  19. #19
    All Around Web Guy Cursal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrawesome
    I've read mixed opinions when I researched this. When you use frames in the coding of your websites, do spider bots find them harder to read and therefore do you get a slight ding in search engine placements?
    The question posed is about Spiders and Bots and how they view the (i)Framed page.

    Sure, browsers may render these pages just fine as Alex and others have pointed out, but the answer to the question posed is YES.
    Yes it makes it harder for bots and spiders to index your pages/site.


    How come?
    Bots and spiders either ignore or confuse content and links that are loaded in a frame.

    Why?
    A frame is often composed of several "web pages or web page elements" so the spiders and bots get lost trying to keep track of what belongs to which page.

    Solution?
    Use/learn another web technology. CSS, PHP, SSI, hire some one..
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  20. #20
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    I use Joomla! and they have gone to a lot of bother to eradicate frames being used in their core app due to the problems it presents with seo. It was always one of their biggest headaches and users complained and complained about them.

    I have only ever read bad reports about frames and seo.

  21. #21
    Outsourced Program Manager TrishaLyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loxly
    And those iframes are a PITA ...
    Definitely. It makes it harder than necessary to use them on a blog, I've found.

  22. #22
    Moderator BurgerBoy's Avatar
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    I use iframes sometimes to hide what I don't want the SEs to see and index on a page.

    If you really want to SEO target a product on a page you can put the navigation, other crap or whatever else you also want to put on the page in iframes.

    Your vistor sees all of the page but the SE robot only sees what is about the product on the page - and not what is in the iframes - and the page will get a lot better SEO and ranking in the Search Engine results.

    It does for me way.

    To keep the iframes from being indexed put a noindex meta tag on the iframe pages.

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  23. #23
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    BurgerBoy, that's an interesting tip!
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