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  1. #1
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    http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/20/te...rint&position=

    Why feed sites might have some future trouble.

    I work in lounge pants . Looking for a sponsor, PM with offer.

  2. #2
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>We have not sold one fruit basket<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    hehe. More bad apples

  3. #3
    15 years and counting
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    Spammers will get caught, sooner or later.
    Duplicating 1000 versions of the same web site is spam. Could be datafeed or (coupon) driven.
    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...882#8156087882

    It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting the link, Trust. It's a good example of affiliate spamming. I hope Google does crack down on this stuff, it ruins the SERPs as far as I'm concerned.

    Nothing annoys me more than getting the same crappy shopping site over and over again. Giving it new colors and a new name isn't enough to disguise that it's the same site over and over.

    I hate

    I hope Google drops them in the sea of useless and worthless sites, to burn in the fiery pit of Internet hell forever.

    Andy

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    <font color="red">Call the Exterminators! We've Got PARASITES!</font>

  5. #5
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    Google has set up an interesting situation by trying to index a gazillion pages and query string pages.

    On the plus side shopping carts are getting indexed making it possible to locate hard to find items.

    On the down side doorway pages and duplicate content sites are alive and well.

    This will be corrected as it was back in 98-99 by AV.

    Personally I would think long and hard before creating affiliate template sites and data feeds out of the box.

    <hr>
    Leave the gun, take the cannolis.

  6. #6
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    As I always said.
    carneol

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
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    What's this got to do with datafeed sites? Did anybody try the searches, looks to me like they fixed it awful quick, none of the sites look similar to me.

  8. #8
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Well add another feather to my cap as I've always said datafeeds were primarily spam food given out freely as a AM scheme to destroy their competitions SE listings via lazy affiliates. Sure 5% actually carefully intergrate them into the existing sites to assist shoppers, but 95% just spamm Google and others with SE doorway pages.

    article: "Is this just a sign of evolving competition among Internet retailers? Or is the consumer at risk of being ill served, or worse, deceived?

    WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TODAY TO PUT REAL VALUE INTO A CLICK...from a shoppers viewpoint?

    More interest is it finally points out why for 3 years GIFTTREE.COM is a totall unethical and fradulaent merchant at CJ with piss poor conversion ratios......

    _____________________

    ""Customers are getting tricked - they really are," said Pam Monroe, founder of A Gifted Basket (www.giftedbasket.com) in San Diego. But Craig Bowen, president of Gift Services, says his company has done nothing wrong. "We have always had separate Web sites with separate marketing campaigns," said Mr. Bowen, adding that the company had been operating since 1997. "This isn't something we did for Google."

    The company's sites, like 1stfruitbaskets .com, giftbasketsnbows.com, gifttree.com and many others, all feature different colors and graphics. The photographs of baskets appear to be the same, and the text is similar. Mr. Bowen said the company had 50 distributors around the country. Many of the sites, though not all, say they are owned and operated by Gift Services, providing the company's address and phone number, something that many smaller gift-basket companies do not do.

    Sounds like the GSI of the giftbasket business who, like 123Inkjets, are just spammers and DMA Ad whores.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  9. #9
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    Ecom: your feather looks good. May I have one too? But please, none from Charly


    carneol

  10. #10
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> "We cannot be found anymore," said Michelle Wiesel, president of Cesta Gift Baskets in Los Angeles (www.cesta.net). "We have not sold one fruit basket" in two months, she said, adding that before, when Cesta showed up in Google's top 10 results, her business was doing fine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Looks like google fixed this...they're now ranked 4th.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> But Craig Bowen, president of Gift Services, says his company has done nothing wrong. "We have always had separate Web sites with separate marketing campaigns," said Mr. Bowen, adding that the company had been operating since 1997. "This isn't something we did for Google." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Then why not put an exclusion in the robots.txt to keep google from indexing the duplicate sites?

    I've seen this behaviour from merchants across many different industries (even mine).

    Erik

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  11. #11
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    "What's this got to do with datafeed sites?"

    Instead of merchants duping their own sites they get affiliates doing it for them.

    "list of links that lead back to the same product or company."

    "all feature different colors and graphics. The photographs of baskets appear to be the same, and the text is similar"

    Google's guidelines, "Don't create multiple pages, subdomains, or domains with substantially duplicate content." The company warns offenders that they can be removed from the search engine."


    Short term good for affiliates but long term affiliates will be pushed off the SE radar as you'll be competing with hundreds/thousands of affiliates with the exact same feed. Merchant still wins in the end. They want to get their feed into as many affiliate hands as they can.
    The ideal for search engines is that when somebody lets say searches for buy shoes online, they actually get a variety of places to buy shoes online, not a bunch of sites that lead back to "the same product or company"
    So see a little of Google looking into this and making adjustments.
    Depends if you're looking at affiliate marketing as a long term or short term thing. If you're honest with yourself most (not all) feed sites are just duplicate merchant sites, rearranged, new metas, sometimes organized better, maybe a font change, color change etc. but in the end, it's just the same stuff, dupe content.

    Which is better to you on a search for buy shoes online?

    Results 1
    1. Zappos
    2. Shoes.com
    3. Shoebuy.com
    4. FootSmart.com
    5. Shoeline.com

    Results 2
    1. Affiliate Feed Site leading to Shoes.com
    2. Affiliate Feed Site leading to Shoes.com
    3. Affiliate Feed Site leading to Shoes.com
    4. Affiliate Feed Site leading to Shoes.com
    5. Affiliate Feed Site leading to Shoes.com

    I'm betting search engines like Results 1 and will be moving in that direction.

    [This message was edited by TrustNo1® on November 20, 2003 at 02:15 PM.]

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
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    So, they way you look at it, we should just have one coupon site in google as well, since it's all duplicate content, just layed out different, different colors, made by different people. But, in the end it's all the same stuff, duplicant content.

    Me, I wouldn't search for buy shoes online, I'd search for the kind of shoes I wanted, click the first link, BAM, ready to buy.

  13. #13
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    No, when someone searches for coupons they get differect companies, FlamingoWorld different from DealCatcher different from Fatwallet etc kind of like Results 1 i posted above and they get exactly what they're looking for. And some good coupon sites are different, some are very spammy like a couple all couponers are aware off. Also much easier to build a coupon site up as your own brand, or even another kind of affiliate site, and become not as search engine dependent and some other types of sites. And if you search for coupons you get a good variety of different coupon sites and when someone searches to buy shoes online, they want a good variety of where to buy shoes online, not site after site going to the same merchant.

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
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    You can spin it how you want, it's the same thing, all datafeed sites don't use the same merchants, like you are ass uming, and how do most people search for coupons? Do they search for shoe coupons, or do they search for zappo's coupons? Do they search for diamond coupons or do they search for mondera coupons?

    And they get exactly what they are looking for? I think we've covered this before, when they hit one of my feed sites, that page is optimized for what they were just searching for, not non existant coupons.

    I have no problems with coupon sites, there's room enough for everyone, but I think I'll let you and ecomcity continue that discussion, I'm taking my datafeed sites and going home.

  15. #15
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    I think you guys are right.

    Everyone should quite using data feeds and displaying the data in a new format. Sure that may help some find the info they need, but it could be spam, right?

    While you are at it, lets get rid of the TV content that is the same, and the magazine ads, and the newspaper ads and the......

    Advertising is a part of media, internet is media. It will always find a way in. If you can combine MORE useful information AND have a data feed on the same site that makes it easier for a shopper to find what they want, then you have made the web a better place.

    I would agree that there are too many data feed sites for one merchant, and I wish the merchants would limit whom gets data feeds (but that is another argument.. err I mean thread). If they do not, they will damage themselves in the long run.

    I have found product and services through data feed affiliates where the merchant did not even come up in the first three pages of the SERP's. I was glad they had intelligent advertisers so I could find what I wanted.

    As always, good and bad sides to everything. Going around blasting data feed sites and touting your SEO'd pages as superior is going a little far I think. Are you trying to make sales or make the web a better place? If you answer in the positive to the latter, then don't sell anything on your site.

    Bottom line: The two can coexist peacefully (and so can we )

    I get tired of this old rant on these boards. Everyone use the tools you like. If you use them all you will be left standing.

    Stepping off ........now.

  16. #16
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    "You can spin it how you want, it's the same thing, all datafeed sites don't use the same merchants, like you are ass uming,"

    I didn't say all i said:
    "most (not all) feed sites are just duplicate merchant sites" Like i've said before i'm talking about feed sites where they are nothing but repackaged sites for only 1 merchant. I thought the NYTimes article spelled everything out pretty clearly. But we'll just agree to disagree on this, no biggie

    I work in lounge pants . Looking for a sponsor, PM with offer.

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
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    The way I read that article, the merchant created all of those sites, which is where the duplicate sites penalty should kick in at google. If I created two sites using the same feed, then that should kick in the penalty also, not if I created one from a merchants feed. I thought you were talking about feed sites in general compared to this merchant duping his own.

  18. #18
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    I busted a high profile golf merchant (or possibly one of their affiliates) to the Google spam police, for a very similar practice (original topic), even though I am an active affiliate of theirs. Dozens of slightly modified domains all pointing back to their home page... Every url was gone in less then a week...

    As far as datafeeds, I like the mantra over at Jim World when discussing Google Serp strategies, and it is very simple. What are your intentions, and when building a site, you know precisely what they are...

    Jonathon Palbicke
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    Webmaster@krookedstix.com
    Krooked Stix, Inc.
    It's all golf baby!

  19. #19
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    Because of merchant and affiliate spamming the famouse German SE web.de which used google results has left google .

    carneol

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