View Poll Results: Are you apathetic on the parasite issues. Be counted here.

Voters
48. You may not vote on this poll
  • I feel helpless so I don't post on the issue.

    3 6.25%
  • It's beating a dead horse. There is nothing we can do.

    4 8.33%
  • I have not seen a solution worth commenting on and have none to offer.

    1 2.08%
  • I have contacted merchants or AMs on the issue with good results.

    5 10.42%
  • I have contacted merchants or AMs on the issue with bad results.

    9 18.75%
  • I don't support the problematic networks and that's all I can do.

    1 2.08%
  • It doesn't really effect my business model.

    2 4.17%
  • I am a perpetual lurker who signed up just to check off here.

    0 0%
  • Waiting on an affiliate organization to form and lead the attack.

    4 8.33%
  • I have offered solutions and or been active on ABW concerning this issue.

    12 25.00%
  • Too many other issues in my life now.

    3 6.25%
  • I have a pulse and got this far without finding an applicable selection.

    4 8.33%
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  1. #1
    Comfortably Numb John Powell's Avatar
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    Poll To Gauge Apathy To Parasite Issue
    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko
    Apathy will be the death of your business.
    I for one want to know what the level of Apathy is regarding the parasite issue which is highlighted by the ongoing OneCause issue.
    Reference: http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread...2&page=1&pp=25

    This poll is an attempt to gauge the apathy or lack of. If folks won't weigh in with a poll then I guess they don't care. I'm sure sometimes more than one choice would be good, but I hope to get a total head count with this.


  2. #2
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    make sure you add a check box for me, "2nd degree apathy burns" (apathetic now, towards those who have been passive, apathetic "it's just a cost of doing business" types)

    and also add another checkbox for me for "planning to compete against the inefficient who have created and fostered this environment through passivity, ignorance, laziness, willful complicitness and general dickishness".

  3. #3
    15 years and counting
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    I'm really starting to wonder who are all these affiliates still promoting LinkShare/OneCause merchants? Are they waiting for the affiliates who are not working with them to do all the work to enjoy the leftover from these parasites without disturbing their relationships with these thieves?

  4. #4
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    I really think it needs to be multiple choice, you can get a head count even with multiple answers. I don't think it needs to sound so negative either. And the choice of contacting merchants needs to have both bad and good results, I know my results are mixed.

    Also, the statement about "I work with clean networks and that's all I can do" sounds negative. Many people work with clean networks AND are still talking to other merchants.

    Just some thoughts.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  5. #5
    Comfortably Numb John Powell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loxly
    And the choice of contacting merchants needs to have both bad and good results, I know my results are mixed.
    Choices 4 and 5.

    Sorry for the negative tone, but my idea is to see if the apathetic can show themselves and they are usually silent and negative. Also I have never been a great wordsmith.


  6. #6
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    But we can't choose both options is my point John
    Deborah Carney
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  7. #7
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Nothing exploits like a magnifying glass
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  8. #8
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    If you only want to know why people *aren't* doing anything then this poll is fine, if you want to gauge how many people *are* doing something but aren't posting about it, then the poll isn't including those people. I know I educate people daily on the issues, and know others that are also. Sometimes we have positive results, sometimes we do not. But it doesn't mean we are apathetic. I think the silent folks need to be heard in such a poll as well.

    Again, just my thoughts on the issue.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador
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    This poll seems to be geared towards accusing people of being apathetic if they do nothing about it.

    I chose "Too many other issues in my life now"

    For some of us, there really are more important things to worry about. That does not mean that I am apathetic.

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador purplebear's Avatar
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    I voted but agree with the multiple choices. Put that I've contacted several with bad results. Am guessing nothing happened would be the same as bad results.

    My replies from emails have ranged from:
    Are away right now, just checking in on emails but will look into it when they get back to work and thanking me for lettin em know.
    Weren't even aware of em til I told em.
    Thanking me for posting a link about it.
    Umm the most demoralizing was just flat out Hey Kathy, so nice to hear from ya. Wishing I'm well and have a very Happy Holiday but just flat out ignoring that issue. This was from an affiliate manager I've known and had liked since I first started (didn't know about parasites back then and unfortunately he's got em in his programs)

    The only positive response I've gotten I had posted in the other thread. Will post again, tho. Realize he's not a very popular person around here but regardless I appreciate the fact that he did respond to me and very quickly. Since I don't even know any network people other than Brian and Gary I know Kris is the owner of PepperJam so I wrote him and just flat out asked him if they were in his network. Regardless what a lot here think of him, he's the only one who had the common courtesy to take my email seriously I guess. He said he personally went and looked and that they were not in his network. I got a very fast reply from him. So, I appreciate that. I don't know of any other names of network or merchants who aren't already considered the good guys.

    Had one correspondence with one of the larger programs in general about the whole parasite issue and got a very sympathetic response and wanted to work with me to help conversions after the holidays but was also told she honestly wasn't even aware the parasite issue was even still an issue and that no affiliates have said anything to her for quite a while. (This was a really big program with several sites bein managed by her)

    Wanna say very clearly I'm not tryin to sound whiney or puttin myself down or anything by sayin I'm a teeny affiliate but ummm after those last couple of correspondences I'm really gettin the feelin that this just isn't an issue that's really gettin much of a reaction from many of the biggie affiliates. It's gettin some who have posted from here but after the last email. I know there's gotta be an awful lotta affiliates who must be working in her program. I would think that the biggies must have relationships with their affiliate managers of the big programs.....so if she says nobody's even talked about this for a long time.......I can only guess it just isn't an issue with any of em.

    Am afraid without the biggies bein concerned about this......nothin's gonna happen and they just don't seem to be.

  11. #11
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    You can't assume silence means apathy, I posted this over at the We-care.com discussion 10 days ago, and no one acknowledged it:

    "I just want to jump in here, as a single affiliate with a small voice. The only email addresses I have for my merchants who participate in this toolbar are network email addresses. Where am I supposed to go, if I have no direct relationship with the store? Even non-LS emails (in some cases) redirect to new LS support tickets.

    I have no pull as a recognized "online marketer" (ie. no one knows who I am). I'm just trying to make some nice dough with my own sites.

    I completely understand the gravity of the situation; I'm 110% on board for a collective approach. On my own, I'm small, and will make no impact - but that doesn't mean I'm not completely outraged! I keep reading Haiko's comments to act now, but act how..?

    I'm happy to contribute to the cost of a press release, or support a bigger initiative, but have no idea how to make my own voice heard. It's a small peep at best.

    My two cents worth. And I suspect there are many folks in my situation."

    Same sentiment still applies.

  12. #12
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    sorry, I ran out of time to edit, wanted to add this:

    While I still carry some of these merchants, it's through their datafeeds. I'm ONLY promoting clean programs on my conversion pages.

    To delete the infected merchants from my system requires extensive time spent on a clean up/rewrite of older content pages. I have stopped any profiling/promotion, but don't have time to address this fully.

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador CathyM's Avatar
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    I don't care for the poll choices either. I selected

    "I have contacted merchants or AMs on the issue with good results."

    but this really wasn't how I would describe it. I would also not say it was bad results. Like Loxly mentioned, I would say it was mixed results.

    I contacted an affiliate manager of one of the largest retailers in the world. First with an email and then on the phone. They watched a video with me and said this isn't right. I was led to believe that they will discuss it internally. Obviously, I am not privy to what they discussed and if they will have any action on it.

  14. #14
    Moderator BurgerBoy's Avatar
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    All that will happen is

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  15. #15
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    This thread might be on the ParasiteWare forum, but it's under the OneCause subforum...

    But just because OneCause is the latest threat to our cookies, I don't see why that's the only toolbar parasite, that we need to be focusing on now...

    A-B-C-D-E-F-G-H-I-J-K-L-M-N-O-P-Q-R-S-T-U-V-W-X-Y-Z

    There seems to be at least one parasite name, for every letter of the alphabet, and since 2003 when I first learned about the letter E bates until now 2008 when I already know all the way about the letter Z ango too, just looking at the letter O necause on the middle of the parasites alphabet soup, it don't really make feel any different now...

    For the past five years, I have seen many peple here complaining about parasitic networks and merchants, but at the same time, I have seen many of the same people still complaining, but at the same time still working with the same parasitic networks and merchants, and making money...

    And...

    For the past five years, and to the best of my knowledge, I have not joined any parasitic networks or merchants, and while I have seen many here complaining and making money with those parasitic networks and merchants they complain about, at least my conscience is clean, because I haven't work with those that are causing the problem, since the first day I learned about the parasites issue...

    Without getting into politics, I am just going to say this once, for almost forty years, I have stood my ground on one unrelated, but very importan issue for me, and others on that same issue.

    But, I am not planning to waste more years on these parasites issue, if other affiliates can't afford to do the right thing, and drop whomever they have to drop, before they start to complain about any of them, if at the and they are going to still be making some money there.

  16. #16
    Affiliate Network Rep Ryan Gilbert's Avatar
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    An affiliate marketing council is the only way to go. If there are advertising standards that merchants and networks need to adhere to then they will comply one by one to be seen as doing the right thing by the industry. Networks should be the first to sign up to the council and contribute to the production of the industry guidelines. If a well respected industry body, like the IAB, sets the rules then the majority of merchants and networks that are not members or do not comply with the guidelines will eventually feel the pressure.
    Ryan Gilbert
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  17. #17
    Antisocial Media Expert ProWebAddict's Avatar
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    I get the point of this poll and I think in some ways it can be useful but still I find the discussion of apathy to be annoying.

    1) We have no idea what people are doing behind the scenes. Just because someone isn't updating on ABW everyday it doesn't mean they are apathetic. The accusations of such are a tad bit offensive and distract from finding an overall goal.

    2)As I asked on the other thread and someone asked here, what do you want people to do? What counts as doing something? Until that is defined, stop saying people are apathetic.

    3)What do you expect to happen? What are your goals? This also has to be defined. Is success getting affiliates to drop certain merchants? Is success getting affiliates not to work with Linkshare? Is success getting merchants to drop One Cause? Is success running One Cause down to the ground?

    Right now I see a lot of passion but I think we are kind of all over the place and it makes it seem like this is nothing but a bunch of whining.

    Of course, I understand the issue and what is at stake, but for someone on the outside looking in (i.e. the people you may or may not be trying to reach with this message) it just doesn't look good.

    We have a large group here and we don't necessarily need an organization to get things done. Define a goal or two and tell people how they can help reach it. Until this, this discussion really isn't going to make the progress that we hope for.

  18. #18
    Full Member 1stAngel's Avatar
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    I work bloody hard. I am not apathetic! I just dont get the time to comment on every issue especially ones I know nothing about. Be nicer to have had optimistic poll questions like Can I help you learn more? Or, would you like to learn more... not 'I am a perpetual lurker who signed up just to check off here'.

  19. #19
    Comfortably Numb John Powell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProWeb
    1) We have no idea what people are doing behind the scenes. Just because someone isn't updating on ABW everyday it doesn't mean they are apathetic. The accusations of such are a tad bit offensive and distract from finding an overall goal.
    Sorry about bumming folks out, but I got the idea that Haiko was saying we where apathetic. See the quote in the first post. He is the one that seemed down because of the lack of action resulting from the big OneCause issue thread.

    I was merely trying to measure what he was feeling. No accusations intended, but was trying to spark those that where feeling negative into raising their hands.

    If anyone wants a cheery pole that's great too. Polls are like that as you can kind of skew your results by the way you ask your question.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1stAngle
    Be nicer to have had optimistic poll questions like Can I help you learn more?
    That's a good idea but only an idea until you do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1stAngle
    I am not apathetic! I just dont get the time to comment on every issue especially ones I know nothing about.
    I personally don't make any judgments based on the number of posts a person has. Again I'm sorry for giving off the bad vibes .


  20. #20
    Full Member 1stAngel's Avatar
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    totally forgiven! I can see what you were after doing. I dont know enough about it all to make a judgement. I know all affiliates are against 'it' but am still unsure as to the complete ins and outs of why I should be against it LOL WHO are the companies using it, thats all Ineed to know and then I wont join them.

  21. #21
    Moderator leeann's Avatar
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    You didn't bum me out. OneCause bums me out.
    leeann


    Shoppers determine what has value and they like coupons. Stop manipulating who set the cookie just because you do not like coupon and promotional sites.

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador 2busy's Avatar
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    WHO are the companies using it, thats all Ineed to know and then I wont join them
    It is much easier not to join them than to quit and replace them later. There is a list of the merchants involved with OneCause on the LinkShare/OneCause thread. Not signing up with those merchants does not mean that you are worry free though. There are many parasites and OneCause is just one of them. The network is the problem. You can get another list of merchants from the Ebates site and then a list from Upromise and another list at GoodCause, a list at WeCare, and on and on.

    It's a good idea to check out the various lists but avoiding the networks that permit (and promote) toolbar "affiliates" does more to dry up their sources. You need to be careful on clean networks too because a merchant that is clean on SAS but also has a program on Linkshare or CJ just might have parasites in their non-SAS programs that can steal from SAS links. That is what make the SAS "Exclusive" label so valuable.

    The cookie-theft takes place in the merchant's shopping cart, it doesn't matter if it was your link, the merchant's PPC ad or a Google search that got the shopper to the merchant's shopping cart.

  23. #23
    Antisocial Media Expert ProWebAddict's Avatar
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    You didn't bum me out nor am I looking for cheer. I just wanted to see a goal and actions we need to take to reach it, instead of all this "why aren't you doing anything". A little direction and focus goes a long way. And this thread is not the first time I've mentioned that.

    But some things have developed since I posted that so we'll see how it all goes.

  24. #24
    Full Member 1stAngel's Avatar
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    Thank you 2busy!

    Then we need one real post, read only, with networks to miss out? That will at least be a help....

  25. #25
    Antisocial Media Expert ProWebAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1stAngel
    Thank you 2busy!

    Then we need one real post, read only, with networks to miss out? That will at least be a help....
    That's already been done. It's a sticky in the Affiliate Voice section.

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