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  1. #1
    15 years and counting
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    Overstock: Dip Once or Dip Twice?
    I wanted to check who was still promoting merchants working with OneCause in 2009 and I had the surprise to discover Overstock latest trick by following Overstock new link in LinkShare. "10% Off Healthy New Year Coupon"
    The bottom of the page promoted by this well known affiliate, is full of non-commissioned ads.
    So, if your visitor is not a member of the parasite clubs and if you can escape one of these reminders taking away your commission, you have to pray for your visitor to don't fell for one of these Sponsored links:

    "Sponsored links are advertisements for products and services. These links are matched to your searches and recently viewed products. If you search on Overstock.com for a music CD, you may receive helpful links to concerts or memorabilia related to that artist. These sponsored links are always clearly labeled for your convenience.

    Overstock.com's Sponsored Links are provided by the Google AdSense program. Companies pay for these links to have their products and services appear with specific search terms. These listings are administered, sorted and maintained by Google.

    Clicking on sponsored links will take you away from Overstock.com. The website you link to is not endorsed by Overstock.com."

    I'm sorry but no double dipping for me. I'm not going to feed the crooks for a chance to be an Affiliate Marketing Legend.
    Happy New Year...

  2. #2
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Zeus,

    I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but...

    Your title says: "10 years and counting"

    Well...

    I too have 10 years and counting on this business (network-wise), but today on the first day of 2009, I decided to stop whining about the shit I can't fix, so my advise to you is to move on, or just keep on whining about the same BS and look like a fool.

    Btw Zeus, as long as you're still working with LS, any bs you talk about LS, don't make you look good.

    You can't have it both ways!

  3. #3
    15 years and counting
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    Let me tell you a secret Mr Sal. I'm on ABW for two persons, Haiko and Leader. Because the first time I heard them talking about their problems, I was able to understand them and it was nice to know I was not the only affiliate having to fight with merchants and networks. I was very successful before ABW and I'm still successful 15 years later. I have a social life beyond ABW, and I don't wait for ABW to teach me how to make money as a affiliate. Leader used to share her best tips. Nobody can do it anymore, because the affiliate marketing world is full of crooks. The only thing we can do, is to expose these crooks. I'm not doing it for me, I know them but I'll like new or (older) affiliates to be successful and avoid these pitfalls. If I can help only one affiliate at a time, it's my token back to Haiko.

    I'm sorry my posts are not helping you, I understand you're not really an affiliate, you're not really making money and your focus is more on jokes, smilies and celebrating birthdays. No problem, don't take it the wrong way, I'm not treating you as a fool. ABW is an open place and I don't mind people speaking of their vacations, fiancees or family problems. Just understand, it's not my main concern. I'm not here to socialize, be funny and make friends.

    You blame me for being a LinkShare affiliate. Yes I am, and I was one of the first and I made million with them. Should I kiss their ass and tell them how great they are? Nope. You blame me for being an Overstock affiliate. I'm still are. Do I promote them? Not actively anymore. I'm expecting them to understand what they are doing to their affiliates. I can't do it alone. ABW is the best place to expose these bad practices. Do you have something against that?

    95% of affiliates are not making money. They are just wasting their time (and other people time). But 5% active affiliates, whinning about shit they can't fix are helping thousand of great merchants with outstanding OPMs and AMs on ABW to make money. They all hope they will be able to change Affiliate Marketing to what it was at the beginning and I'm one of them.

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador VampireSkunk's Avatar
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    Zeus - thank you and please do keep exposing misdemeanours as you find them - it's important to keep this stuff in people's awareness, even if it may seem there's little we can do about it.

  5. #5
    15 years and counting
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    Thanks VampireSkunk. It's your traffic, your time, your money. You have the right to know why it's not working (as it should) anymore.

  6. #6
    Advocate mellie's Avatar
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    Speaking out on what is wrong is not whining.

    Closed mouths and closed eyes are two reasons we have many of the problems that we do.
    Melanie
    President - Affiliate Advocacy 2008 ShareaSale Performance Industry Advocate Award, 2009 Affiliate Summit Pinnacle Award - Affiliate Advocate
    Affiliate Advocacy
    NYAffiliateVoice Seery Writing

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Bob Lawrence's Avatar
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    Zeus,
    I jsut pulled my stats for over stock,
    I beleive these are just the rotating banner Impressions, might be wrong there tho.
    Imp. => 1,327
    clicks => 153
    % ratio => 11.53%
    nota sale.

    I'd have to go thro my emails to find out when I joined them.
    Where's the Great Life of Affiliate Marketing Hiding?

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador Georgie Peri's Avatar
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    Thumbs down
    My stats for last year overstock

    Impressions
    2,460 (this is low because I use to use the links from the newletters which didnt have the 1x1 impression thingy )

    Clicks
    2,222

    Orders
    1

  9. #9
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    Thanks Zeus, great info. Merchants that participate in sending our traffic to their AdSense income are becoming more common. They should set up a cookie that removes these ads when a visitor clicks in from an affiliate link.

    Look at Wal-Marts great top banner ads

    Imagine sending Overstock a visitor you got from PPC just to have them click on an Adsense ad

    This makes me even more appreciate ethical merchants who care about helping affiliates.

  10. #10
    15 years and counting
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    Overstock used to be a great merchant, then they did the mistake to accept parasites early 2001. In 2002 their new affiliate manager Shawn Schwegman opened an active forum on ABW.
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=46820
    Mike (ecomcity) did a great job to help them clean their program and get them back on track.
    They went back to their old demons a few years ago and it seems they are once again in trouble.
    Using their affiliate traffic to make money with AdSense is worth an Award with LinkShare. (Yes, I know, I'm bad)
    Bob, Overstock used to convert one sale every 10 clicks. They still have good products, their prices are more competitive than ever.
    Guess who is making money with your 153 clicks?
    Like Melanie said:
    "Closed mouths and closed eyes are two reasons we have many of the problems that we do."
    Maybe, if we yell strong enough we'll get a new Affiliate manager for Overstock...

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Bob Lawrence's Avatar
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    I don't think anybody here considers me closed mouth.
    They don't even consider me that at the shop I work at.
    Maybe the Jimmy Hard of Ohio.
    And I don't even own a megaphone.
    Maybe I can talk my boss into getting me one
    Where's the Great Life of Affiliate Marketing Hiding?

  12. #12
    15 years and counting
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    Don't take my comments personal. I'm not blaming anyone. (just some merchants and networks)

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador Bob Lawrence's Avatar
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    I found it Feb 10th.
    Where's the Great Life of Affiliate Marketing Hiding?

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador Bob Lawrence's Avatar
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    I try not to take anything personal from the family here.
    We are here because this is where we want to be.
    Trying to educate others and learn whats happening ourselves.
    Because before I joined this forum [ Thank You Haiko ] I was blind to a lot of
    S**t that was going on. Never heard of parasite ware.
    Virus, knew of that one. root kits nope.
    Can't keep up with everything by yourself that's for sure.

    And if I didn't want to be here, I know how to log out.
    Where's the Great Life of Affiliate Marketing Hiding?

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador La_Valette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sal
    Zeus,

    I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but...

    Your title says: "10 years and counting"

    Well...

    I too have 10 years and counting on this business (network-wise), but today on the first day of 2009, I decided to stop whining about the shit I can't fix, so my advise to you is to move on, or just keep on whining about the same BS and look like a fool.

    Btw Zeus, as long as you're still working with LS, any bs you talk about LS, don't make you look good.

    You can't have it both ways!
    Dude, that's just plain rude as well as wrong.
    Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. -- Homer Simpson

  16. #16
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    January 18th, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus
    Overstock used to be a great merchant, then they did the mistake to accept parasites early 2001. In 2002 their new affiliate manager Shawn Schwegman opened an active forum on ABW.
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=46820
    Mike (ecomcity) did a great job to help them clean their program and get them back on track.
    They went back to their old demons a few years ago and it seems they are once again in trouble.
    Using their affiliate traffic to make money with AdSense is worth an Award with LinkShare. (Yes, I know, I'm bad)
    Bob, Overstock used to convert one sale every 10 clicks. They still have good products, their prices are more competitive than ever.
    Guess who is making money with your 153 clicks?
    Like Melanie said:
    "Closed mouths and closed eyes are two reasons we have many of the problems that we do."
    Maybe, if we yell strong enough we'll get a new Affiliate manager for Overstock...
    I took 2, soon to be in "the dead pool" merchnats, and pitted them against each other right here daily at ABW. Neither were paying affiliates properly, tracking sales properly and were both detined for the .com bomb gravceyard. One at BeFree ( TigerDirect.com) and one at Linkshare ( Overstock.com) and for years they both had to duke it out here at ABW with published conversion ratio's and number of checks cut monthly to affiliates. Like Zeus said we forced them to be transparent under the ABW spotlight and they converted at a 1 sale per 25 click basis for 2 years.

    Now both are at Linkshare and neither have any tranparency nor any pride in their conversion ratio for their loyal domain bound affiliates not using BHO's or shopping cart coupons. They never were silent here on the cookie landmines their top 20 affiliates set for referred shoppers to tip toe through to make a purchase. They even allow planting super affiliate cookies right inside the checkout process....
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  17. #17
    http and a telephoto
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    Mr Sal, I'm astonished. You are telling someone to stop whining about something this important to our industry? Shame on *you*.

    Zeus, keep it up. You are doing the right thing and like Mellie said, people that keep closing their eyes are the *enablers*. Let's pretend it doesn't exist and it will go away. F*** that.

    Yes, Mr Sal, you made momma Loxly swear in public!
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  18. #18
    Comfortably Numb John Powell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sal
    my advise to you is to move on, or just keep on whining about the same BS and look like a fool.
    Personally I find Zeus to be one of the highest quality posters at ABW. To me we should post as though we where face to face and not let the anonymity over embolden us.


  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador
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    Patrick Byrne, CEO of overstock, has a blog called DeepCapture where he burns up his good name arguing for economic justice in the stock market.

    Yes, there is wisdom in fighting the injustices we can remedy and staying silent on the rest. But taking Patrick's Byrne's lead, we should be arguing against all of the leaks in the Overstock program.

    BTW, there is a simple solution to Overstock's plight. They could simply skip the google ad when the traffic comes from an affiliate click.

  20. #20
    15 years and counting
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    You know, with affiliate marketing, there's something you learn faster than making money, it's getting a thick skin.
    I've been dissapointed more than a few times and I've my own reasons to be mad at these networks. It hurts, but, I never gave up and I'm not going to shut up because what these networks are doing is wrong.
    To don't get closer to people is just a way for me to protect myself. It doesn't mean I don't like people at ABW. I understand how somebody can be fed up to hear the same thing, over and over. Affiliate marketing is frustrating but if it's done right, it's wonderful, too. Thanks all.

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus
    I'm not going to shut up because what these networks are doing is wrong.
    I'm glad you're not going to shut up Zeus - We all need to be pointing out these types of things to other affiliates. Thanks for posting about the Overstock sponsored links issue.

    Wow - My 700th post!
    Last edited by msladybug; January 1st, 2009 at 05:52 PM. Reason: 700th post

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador
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    I have not bothered updating Overstock links latley as they are failing to convert, now I see why. The funny thing is LS merchants take the most time to keep updated with all the email promotions and only a handful of merchants providing updated RSS promotion feeds but I make the least money from LS merchants which I believe is from all the parasites associated with all the merchants and all the merchants that are infested by these cookie stealing toobars they all support. Now it looks to be getting worse. Time to head over to a clean network like Avantlink and get some non parasite links....
    Hosting Discounts from Professional Rates Hosts - Deals and Coupons on Domain Names from GoDadday, Namecheap, Domain.com and more top registers.

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador purplebear's Avatar
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    Thank you very much Zeus for your post. I wasn't aware they had those ads on their pages til now.

    Just checked my stats, realize it's not as many visitors as a lot of you but here it is: (1/1/08 to 1/1/09)
    Impr. - 775
    Clicks - 332
    CTR - 45
    Sales - 0

    I have had sales with them in past years (not a whole lot lol but some)

    Haven't checked any keywords or anything for em but most of my traffic for everything for my sites come from pretty targeted natural search results. Not many sites come off from my site without really giving the am or merchant the benefit of the doubt, but they're coming off tonight now.

    Mr. Sal - I'm gonna give ya the benefit of the doubt and figure you just did waaaay too much celebrating and said somethin ya really didn't mean to say. You even: "Yes, Mr Sal, you made momma Loxly swear in public!"

    Zeus - please try to think what I suggested and that Mr. Sal didn't intend to say what he did. Please don't feel ya need to have a thick skin.

    "there's something you learn faster than making money, it's getting a thick skin."

    hmmm, not necessarily lol Definitely not making much but doubt I'm ever gonna get a thick skin, wish I would but just don't think it's gonna happen.

    Would be reallllllly nice tho if EVERYBODY here could maybe count to 10 before making a post that might hurt another member's feelings...... maybe?? None of us should have to have thick skins.

    Zeus - I appreciate very much your posts, respect your opinions and appreciate very much the knowledge you've shared with the rest of us.. So, if not said enough. Thank you

    psssst...
    "Wow - My 700th post! [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]"
    Congratulations msladybug

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador
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    Thanks for posting Zeus. I noticed the drop and hadn't really checked into it as overstock has never been a big part of my money. Easy enough to drop them.

    I do love reading anything by Patrick Byrne. Certified loon. And yes Patrick, THEY are paying me to post that...

  25. #25
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting, Zeus, your posts usually are interesting and informative.

    I think people are pouncing on Mr. Sal too quickly & prematurely.

    How do Mr. Sal's words differ from those of 2busy?
    Quote Originally Posted by 2busy
    I am surprised that anyone is still working with that network [i.e. LS]. The complaints about the interface are the most bizarre. Instead of spending time waiting for a slow interface that has no connection to reality or real time, that time could be better used methodically replacing dysfunctional programs with functional, paying programs on networks that do work, with merchants that are responsive and serious about their affiliate programs.
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showpost.p...&postcount=834
    Or Ed Byerly's suggestion (of an affiliate boycott) that he knows in his heart won't happen:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Byerly
    Sadly, I doubt that there are enough affiliates willing to make sacrifices (such as a boycott) in order to force changes in the industry. History in many retail realms have proven that over and over. Other strategies must be explored if there's any hope of change.
    Btw, Mr. Sal is an affiliate who has helped many affiliates at ABW with his generous webmerge templates
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showpost.p...8&postcount=31
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread...erge+templates
    He has also written many helpful posts in the programming subforums
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
    Twitter me

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