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  1. #1
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    After 7 years of tracking this industry I've learned to seek out what the network's and Merchants refuse to discuss in the open. It is what they won't tell you or hide that will bite you in the butt everytime.

    The way things worked were simple back then. You put up some banners and txt links alongside pre-sell spin and generated sales. If someone wasn't performing you ran a few test purchases and if the AM didn't respond you knew they had turned off shopping cart tracking. There was no ABW to out the wanks in public or challenge the networks tracking.

    Here's some highlights of what the merchants and networks refused to tell their affiliate sales force.

    Some Dupers posing as merchants were professional con-men running spam farms and privacy information ripp offs or Ponzi schemes like CyberRebates.

    Million of dollars in up-paid commissions were thrust upon affiliates pocketbooks when the networks refused to inform us that their .com bomb partners hadn't paid their bills in months and had disabled the network tracking.

    Not one peep came from any network as they secretly incubated the BHO parasites and mixed these sharks into the affiliate commission pool. They never let on they also upload incent offerings daily to these preferred partners.

    Not one peep out of any network about their direct monitary involvement in professional affiliate management firms handling major brand merchants. These are the one's who recruit for the BHO's and act as a information conduit for the DMA/IAB members.

    Let's cut to the chase and see where the imposed silence here at ABW might be bitting us in the pocketbook. What forces never mentioned here are yanking our chains trying to fly under the radar? What forces are interferring with the simple setting of a referral return day cookie and the final checkout reporting tag we need to get credit for a sales commission?


    We all know about some merchant aggregrator programs destroying their individual merchant's conversion ratios. GSI and Ritz are two prime examples in the sporting goods and camera/electrics verticles. They duckworked patched into the clickstream between the affiliates cookie setting click and the merchant's checkout process. Parsing and collecting data for neferious reasons to pad their own aggregrator pockets. You can bet the networks remained silent if this patchwork process screwed with the simple tracking process. Screw the whining affiliates as these 40 merchnats paid ala-cart monthly fees to appease the network bean counters.

    We all know on occassion that Wayne and Mrmerchant will show up if their territory ...DATAMINING... gets threatened by exposure here. I'm sure the DMA/IAB Dupers and BHO's are on their client lists. But they appear magically when a hint of a threat to their cash cow comes into play.


    Well folks I think Afftrack is a small player in interferring with the networks clickstream to service the Ad Whore industry. Anything touching that simple clickstream (cookie to checkout) threatens to blow the fragile tracking stability.

    We need to break the silence on these issues:

    1. Is there only one way each network sets cookies and tracks sales or do BHO's and Dupers have a special cookie/sales tracking setup?

    2. Why has ABW and no other board, merchant or network ever mention the largest player in the Datamining industry that interfaces the entire clickstream of 200+ major affiliate enabled merchants to their servers.......

    About Coremetrics Marketing Management Center
    The Marketing Management Center is a module within Coremetrics Marketforce that leverages auto-sensing technology to seamlessly track and measure performance of all keywords, banners, affiliates, portals, and emails in a single, sortable interface that is organized according to a company's own hierarchy of marketing programs. Coremetrics Marketforce is the industry's only marketing analytics platform that captures and stores all customer and visitor clickstream activity to build LIVE (Lifetime Individual Visitor Experience) profiles of online customers and visitors that serve as the foundation for all successful marketing initiatives. The Marketing Management Center enables comparison, optimization, and revenue-based pricing for all online marketing initiatives by providing easy access to accurate, unbiased performance metrics for thousands of simultaneous marketing programs.

    Want a hint as the how pervasive and intrusive this CoreMetrics operation is within the affiliate merchant pool....read some of the articles http://www.coremetrics.com/news/press_index.html

    Performics silence on this subject.... http://www.coremetrics.com/news/medi...erformics.html

    Would the networks be willing to put in writing and guarantee CoreMetric's tapping into the clickstream of all affiliate referral links to these Coremetrics clients doesn't blow conversion rations and sales tracking???? We are talking major "web bugs" and datamining spyware here folks, whose aggregrate shared information can negate the need for anyone not a BHO affiliate.

    These unmentoned forces can control the PPCSE keyword SEO/SEM marketplace. Trigger Opt-out spam related to items placed in 200+ merchants shopping carts. Amazing the networks and most merchants REFUSE to publish true site conversion ratios ...yet CoreMetrics has all that information and more...on a fee based need to know basis.

    So let's talk about what they don't want us to know or hear. I have a few merchants who's conversion ratios are tumbling on increased traffic with no answers as to why. Maybe I'll ask them if they recently installed CoreMetrics interfaces to their affiliate clickstream.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador
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    "I have a few merchants who's conversion ratios are tumbling on increased traffic with no answers as to why."

    Ah, now its Coremetrics. Always somebody else.

    I work in lounge pants . Looking for a sponsor, PM with offer.

  3. #3
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    I like this one:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Not one peep came from any network as they secretly incubated the BHO parasites and mixed these sharks into the affiliate commission pool. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador CrazyGuy's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EcomCity.com:
    I have a few merchants who's conversion ratios are tumbling on increased traffic with no answers as to why..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You can't call people who run screaming from your site "traffic".

    The increase is due to the fact that the further we get from 1995, the more people run away from sites that look like they were designed then.


    --------------
    Are you Crazy?

  5. #5
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Thanks for the insightful comments. I think this board would like some real feedback on CoreMetrics as they do intercept the clickstream of all affiliate links to 200 major merchants. Many of them ABW merchant members. The path from click to checkout is fragile and anything from CoreMetrics to eBates/WhenU jumping in there can break proper network sales tracking.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  6. #6
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    There is no issue. They just analyze data. I checked the client list and i have gotten sales from most of them, a couple i see are some of my best performers. They also do data analysis for clients without affiliate programs. And somehow this affects conversions? If this is the case wouldn't it affect everybody or are they just picking on you? Are you really serious thinking that they have affected your conversion ratios?

    I work in lounge pants . Looking for a sponsor, PM with offer.

  7. #7
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Rest easy folks as Trustno1 has stepped forward and will guarantee us all that CoreMetrics planting their web bug and intercepting and recording every nuance of our referral shopper will in no way effect sales tracking.

    Now let some merchants and networks jump into the discussion as we affiliates know nothing about this force who knows everything right down to who left items in abandoned shopping carts and what Google keyword got them to that point.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  8. #8
    Just Lurking
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EcomCity.com:
    . . . and what Google keyword got them to that point.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>How? The only referer should be an affiliate URL, right? Even if the affiliate is redirecting to the merchant on click.

    ------------------------------
    "A man is but the product of his thoughts. What he thinks, he becomes." -- Mahatma Gandhi

  9. #9
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    Buddha,shhh... Didn't you read the one Mike story where he is also a deep spy operative for the special branch of the FTC? They are very big into super google tracking, google called Mike and discussed it, but the phone call was cut short because GWB was on the other line for Mike.

    Chet

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    Don't ya know that Mike helped Al Gore invent the internet....And when Al cut Mike out Mike went to Georgie's side.
    It was really Mike down in Florida messing with the chads....He got even....

    Connie Berg
    http://www.flamingoworld.com


  11. #11
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Mike,

    As I see it, Coremetrics analyzes the end user's [on site] clickstream, not intercept or otherwise interfere with it.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  12. #12
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Jeeeze, Mike, I think you are developing a cult following. With a little more effort, you might end up more popular than GWB at a Hilary fundraiser, lol.

    - - - - - - - - -
    Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy. --Albert Einstein


  13. #13
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Hey, with 11 more posts, Haiko will be at 11111.....

    - - - - - - - - -
    Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy. --Albert Einstein


  14. #14
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Posts: 11101 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That looks like binary, LOL!

    It is a beautiful thing, to do nothing, and then rest afterwards.~Spanish Proverb

  15. #15
    Affiliate/AM Moonlighter dflsports's Avatar
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    I can always count on ABW for a good laugh! This thread should be moved to the daily chuckle.

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DFLsports:
    I can always count on ABW for a good laugh! This thread should be moved to the daily chuckle. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hey! what did I say about using words with my name?!

    Mike,

    what if it was Lee Harvey Oswalds ghost that started that company, and Jack Ruby came back from the dead and became the cfo for the company? And, LBJ came back to keep Bobby kennedy's ghost from doing a hostile takeover?

    Gosh. I though I was the conspiracy theorist around here, but hell, Mike, you got me beat!

    -----------------------------
    Big Chuck
    Why do some affiliate networks continue to enable parasitic technology providers to STEAL my hard earned revenue?

  17. #17
    The affiliate formerly known as ojmoo
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    The problem here isn't that it is causing affiliate sales. From the article you pointed out, it seems that performics (and I would assume others) are just giving Coremetrics the information that performics is collecting. The real issue here is privacy as companies are collecting ever more information about people and then linking these databases together. You link this data with your name and address and the discount card you use at groceries, the sweepstakes you join etc. and big business knows more about you and your interests than you girlfriend.

    Come to think of it, its probably safer for big business to know than your girl friend anyway but that is a different post.

    Mike
    Bovine Bazaar
    Cow gifts and collectibles

  18. #18
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    Mike,

    Its time for you to change professions, I have thought you are in the wrong profession after reading a few of your posts but now I am absolutely sure of it.

    Go back to school get your degree in journalism and write technical manuals. Your DIABTRIBES are the equivalent of a technical manual. I’m not sure why you cannot simply make your point in 1 paragraph, but you cannot, which is how I see all technical manuals. Consider doing what you evidently do well and write those manuals. I bet tons of people here on ABW would be willing to give reference as to your writing skills.



    SandraR

  19. #19
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Let's be patient and maybe the 200 affiliate enabled merchants from Dell, Ashford, WorldofWatches, PetCo, RitzCamera to Collectables Today can shed some light on how CoreMetrics interfaces with the clickstream.

    Read the articles http://www.coremetrics.com/news/press_index.html and see their data mining technology is not a web bug planted on the surface. The simple return day cookie information gets parsed by the sales tracking code to credit a sale. This baby gathers in except the brand of underwear you have on all during the buying process and calls home the info at the termination of the shopping session.

    I just interfaced a merchant's simple shopping cart sales and customer info data to their office Unix based accounting system. One DB common name or extra ASCII variable character throws off the whole fetch, parse and report function. I'm seeking whether BeFree or Linkshare certifies Coremetrics merchant clickstream data collection doesn't effect their proprietary tracking system.

    We all know Valueclick/Befree purchased datamining companies and CJ is getting into that field as well as search. Interfacing those functions into the affiliate clickstream can cause tracking problems just like the upgrades and simple report updates for the last few days.


    All GSI's conversion problems came from forcing the affiliate clickstream to a 3rd party cart server to pick off sales data before passing it on to the networks.

    Educate me also on whether BHO's have any special cookie/tracking network senerio due to their nature of not requiring a click or front door entry to attached their ID#.

    Remember the thread is about what isn't told to affiliates as we sure are left in the dark if waiting for networks to inform us to buy vaseline. They have a history of acknowledging huge commission impact snafus 4 months after their old news. Why had I never heard of Coremetrics just like the silence on TopText -Gator -WhenU - Morpheus -eBates -activities?

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

    [This message was edited by EcomCity.com on December 03, 2003 at 01:01 PM.]

  20. #20
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Okie-doke, I'll take a read. Wasn't making fun of you, Mike, by the way, just commenting on some familiar faces that pop up every time you post, heh.

    - - - - - - - - -
    Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy. --Albert Einstein


  21. #21
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    EC ...I have a following.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador Radegast's Avatar
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    Even Don Quixote had Sancho Panza...

    This particular windmill could be sinister for all kinds of reasons.

    Not sure I like the idea of all that data being collected and used to try and 'model' people's behaviour, and the results analyzed by people who may not have the requisite skills to make use of what is already an imperfect model to begin with

  23. #23
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    Mike, what Haiko said, they just analyze data. You started off this thread that this might be a reason your conversion rates are tumbling. All you're doing is spawning off a bunch of Mini Mikes (could be eliminating my future competion) which actually might be a good thing for me. It seems you have been baited, buying into the whole Blameless Society deal hook, line and sinker. Mike you are responible for your conversions or lack of, nobody else. Grow up and take some responsibility, stop blaming everybody else for your failings.

    I work in lounge pants . Looking for a sponsor, PM with offer.

  24. #24
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    I for one don't have a clue as to why anyone gets irritated with Mike's posts. As far as I am concerned, he needs to stay in the affiliate game however long, and in whatever way he chooses, and the longer his posts are, or however much he strays off the original topic is fine with me, because I may or may not be informed of something really pressing or important, such as possibly having my sales hijacked (somehow), by core metrics, but one thing is for sure, I am always entertained.

    Of course that is just my opinion...

    (And I do realize of course that he started this thread).

    Jonathon Palbicke
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    Krooked Stix, Inc.
    It's all golf baby!

  25. #25
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Heh, I'm no mini mike, trust. I like your posts too, doesn't make me a mini-trust,lol.

    - - - - - - - - -
    Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy. --Albert Einstein


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