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  1. #1
    Affiliate Manager Allen Nance's Avatar
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    ATTENTION

    To those merchants that have 7 or less return days.

    You need to get out of affiliate marketing. You have no business stealing from the average affiliate that sends qualified customers to your site.

    I guess you don't pay that newspaper, magazine ads or what ever else you use to promote your company if the customer does not come in the fist day of publication.

    Please let me know how this is done, so I can advertise there too and not have to pay.

    You who offer minimal return days are sucking the wallets of affiliates that use nothing but hard work to drive clients to your site.

    Eat a bagel made of Saddam Crap and have a cup of coffee on my minimal commissions.

    Take a look at your program levels and I suggest that all affiliates refuse to enter an agreement with these scalpers.

    Very Truly Yours,

    Allen Nance
    US Funweb Networks

    I look for the day, when every affiliate from every nation can climb to the mountain top and yell,
    'Free again, Free Again."

    Today is a national day of parasite free shopping.

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Akiva's Avatar
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    I cannot agree more.

    Akiva Bergstrom
    Affiliate Partner Manager

    <TABLE BORDER=0 cellspacing=2 width=600><TR><TD> <FONT SIZE=1>EssentialApparel.com
    CJ/7.5% to 8.5%/120 days
    Datafeed/Parasite free
    Email: akiva@essentialapparel.com
    Phone: 973.696.6200 ext 751
    > Join now! < </TD> <TD><FONT SIZE=1>SportsFanfare.com
    CJ/10%/120 days
    Datafeed/Parasite free
    Email: akiva@sportsfanfare.com
    AIM: akivabergs
    > Join now! < </TD> <TD><FONT SIZE=1>FunToCollect.com
    CJ/11%/120 days
    Datafeed/Parasite free
    Email: affiliates@funtocollect.com
    ICQ: 240820068
    > Join now! < </TD></TR></TABLE>

  3. #3
    Newbie Affiliate Ian's Avatar
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    I 3rd that!

    Ian Lee, M.Sc.

    Internet Marketing Strategist / Affiliate Manager
    EYI, Inc.
    ilee_NO_SPAM@eyi.us
    http://www.eyiproducts.com/affiliate.html
    604-596-9766

    Personal Sites: ADS-Links.com | HealthCastle.com

  4. #4
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    A softer approach (merchant education) might be nice.

    Though most merchants who offer little or no cookie duration are indeed lowlife chiselers, there certainly are a few who are simply ignorant of the issue at hand and just need a little nudge in the right direction.

    ------------------------------
    "It be's dat way sumtimes." ~ Coco B. Ware

  5. #5
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    I think alot of AMs and merchants look at affiliate programs very one-sidedly. (That is a word, I say so.)

    They know how much they are willing to part with as far as commissions go, and structure their program accordingly. They see it as just another ad tool. They don't always realize that the faceless and nameless affiliates are businesspeople too and won't just take what they're given.

    Unless the affiliates do just take what they're given. Then there's no impetus to change.

    -patrice

    patrice.colancecco.milligan
    affiliate.manager | eastwoodcompany.com
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  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Patrice:
    Well-stated (including your invented word). If affiliates don't make it clear why they won't get involved with a merchant (one-day cookie, 800 # or other leaks, etc.), there should be no expectation for things to change.

    Karl Smith
    phillyBurbs - Your Internet Starts Here
    ---------
    Beware Parasiteware! It is stealing your money!
    [What is Parasiteware? click here to learn more]

  7. #7
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    I agree totally Allen. Some of my posts were responsible for the intial thread "unethical cookie durations beware" regarding 1 day cookies and as usual, it brought the naysayers in saying "it's not unethical", the affiliate has a right to participate or not, etc etc.

    It is a shame that affiliates do not ban together on some of these issues and to try and force change and really impact the results of these kinds of peoples programs but it just doesn't seem it will ever happen.

    How many people promote amazon and would not dare dream of pulling them even though they don't make crap with the program and amazon sticks to them in every way possible IMO. $100 payouts, caps on commissions, low cookie durations and commission levels, etc etc and then they give you a banner to promote that say "Amazon and you're done" and affiliates still promote them and run these banners - CRAZY is what comes to my mind.

    I look forward to a day when a core group of affiliates will ban together and make commitments to take actions collectively against the many merchants who not only offer a crappy one day cookie but many of the other abuses that are impaled on affiliates by shady merchants as well.

    Until an organized effort with dedicated support from affiliates is "really organized", affiliates will be treated, abused and walked all over by tons of shady merchants.

    Affiliates United? NOT

    ===================================
    Great News - we can now support ebates and pp merchants - they are cleaning up their act and I'll bet it'll be a long time before we see another clip of ebates overwriting affiliate links.
    ===================================

  8. #8
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    Yep! TOOOOOOOO many affiliates Are willing to accept it.

    And, there's no telling how many affiliates don't even realize how prevalent the low cookie days and one time "action occurrence" crap is.

    Don't believe it's happens that often??

    Just go to your CJ account and start checking your merchants one by one. You will probably be stunned.

    Then go to your LS account and check your stats for "NON-Commissionable" sales. You will probably be surprised.

    This issue has been discussed many times before. It normally just quickly disappears into the archives and the practice continues with the blessing of the networks...Our trusted partners.

  9. #9
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    It would be great if affiliates united to get the word out about what is really a fair business proposition and what isn't.

    But I think you could still make an impact, if only for yourself, just by contacting the merchants you'd like to see change. I think there are alot of affiliates who are afraid to try this, thinking that they have no platform on which to stand if they don't have support of other affiliates. I can't say this will never be true, but I bet you'd be surprised. And the worst thing they can say is no. Then you're no worse off.

    I know that it's easy for me to say this because I am not an affiliate. Definitely take my words with a grain of salt. But this is my view from the other side of the equation.

    I and many other AMs also take the time to try to let other AMs know how we feel about fairness, parasites, and the like. So there's another angle that is being played.

    Maybe affiliates united can't take the world by storm, but affiliates one by one can still make a difference. But then I may just be naiive.

    -patrice

    patrice.colancecco.milligan
    affiliate.manager | eastwoodcompany.com
    e: patrice@eastwoodco.com | v: 610.323.2200x2206 | aim: patricemilligan
    ::visit.our.private.forum.at.abw::

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador
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    >Yep! TOOOOOOOO many affiliates Are willing to accept it.

    They are NOT affiliates, they are lemmings

    Big Daddy Smokes
    Real American Tobacco
    FAST Shipping
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    http://www.bigdaddysmokes.com/recruit2.html
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  11. #11
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    Old thread about this.
    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?q=Y&a=...6826024621&p=1

    I work in lounge pants

  12. #12
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    Why do Merchants belittle themselves by using a 1 day cookie.

    Why not just go to CJ. Give a 120 day cookie, and then "Action Referral Occurrences" set at "1 time(s)".

    The results to our commissions are just about the same as a 1 day cookie.

    Cow Patch...

  13. #13
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    One day cookies are crap!

    Affiliates should not run merchants who have 1-day cookies!

    That, however, is an entirely different matter than whether it's ethical.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> it brought the naysayers in saying "it's not unethical", the affiliate has a right to participate or not, etc etc. ~Happypoon<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    First off, trying to dismiss those who don't agree with you as "naysayers" is just a cheap shot which doesn't address the issue.

    As for the ISSUE--I think we could get a lot further if certain issues were not forced to wear a coat of ethics/unethics, when in fact it is a simple business matter. It's bad business to accept low cookies and/or low commissions! But when the question of "ethics" comes into play, no dice--I do NOT base a response to the question of whether something is ethical solely on whether it's a good deal for affiliates.

    It is not unethical for merchants to try to get people to accept 1-day cookies. But it IS cheapskate, Scroogeish, miserly, etc.

    Along these lines, every merchant that contributes to commission deflation by offering less than 10% is also cheapskate, Scroogeish and miserly. But that's a whole different thing than being an *unethical* merchant.

    Affiliates should be quite capable of refusing to accept lousy terms without painting every bad deal as "unethical."

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Why not just go to CJ. Give a 120 day cookie, and then "Action Referral Occurrences" set at "1 time(s)".

    The results to our commissions are just about the same as a 1 day cookie.~Cowpatch
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The heat of the flames against that is about the same, too! So they might as well just say what they mean...

    It's the most wonderful time of the year!~Old Christmas Song

  14. #14
    Just Lurking
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    Ok, I went thru the programs I'm Affiliated with and this is what I came up with:

    Dell-Home at LS 1 day
    Sharper Image at LS 1 day
    Wal-Mart as LS 1 day (NEXT TOPIC COMMISSIONS PLEASE?)
    Barnes & Noble at BeFree Zero days
    Dell Business at Befree 3 Days

    Now I guess I have to send them some traffic so they pay attention to that email complaining about this?

    ------------------------------
    "A man is but the product of his thoughts. What he thinks, he becomes." -- Mahatma Gandhi

  15. #15
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Wal-Mart as LS 1 day (NEXT TOPIC COMMISSIONS PLEASE?) ~Buddha<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Count me in on any topic complaining about commission deflation! Commission deflation is my biggest gripe but that hardly ever comes up. Places that pay less than 10% need to be publicly flogged! The low commission is the same as having a parasite on *every* transaction. Only instead of eating a whole transaction, it takes most of the good out of ALL the transactions.

    There is no point in bothering with some cheapskate's 1%-3% commission $1000 item, when there's just as much commission on $100-$300 items from a place that pays 10%.

    It's the most wonderful time of the year!~Old Christmas Song

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador
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    I agree with you guys.

    Simple solution.

    See a merchant with 1 day cookie, don't sign up.

    Merchant reduces cookie to 1 day, replace links with links to their competitor with a decent cookie duration, then email them and tell them why.

    Parasites are thieves. What are you going to do about it?

  17. #17
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> They know how much they are willing to part with as far as commissions go, and structure their program accordingly. They see it as just another ad tool. They don't always realize that the faceless and nameless affiliates are businesspeople too and won't just take what they're given. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I couldn't agree more. That's why I always try (whenever possible) to find program run by people who've come from "our side" of the fence (Andy Rodriguez, etc.) and know how difficult it can be to develop a good incoem stream from affiliate program(s).

    I have to applaud AllPosters.com's program of late, as they've added 10 return days and upped thier standard commission levels pretty significantly (which has added roughly $400 to this month's check thus far).

    Having said that, I don't think it's "unethical" for a merchant to offer low/no return days or low commissions. Bad business, surely, but not unethical (unless they've lied about it). Most of those types of merchants (IMO) simply don't "get" the power of the affiliate marketing channel, and realize that it is simply the most economical method for them to market their products.

    I was just reading in this month's Fortune magazine (which has a great cover story about Google's IPO BTW) about how Edmunds.com is spending $250,000 per month on PPC with google, and making roughly $1.70 for every dollar spent. My first thought was "...how much of a better ROI would a stongly run affiliate program give them?" (I checked their site, I don't think they have one).

    There have been merchant's that I've approached that had niche products I wanted to sell that had no affiliate program, and it took quite a bit of convincing (for some of them) to make them understand the concept of good commissions + good return days = awesome ROI. In fact, one niche product manufacturer that I setup a program with (using a $200 affiliate script) TRIPLED his profits in less than 90 days. And again...his only investment was for the $200 affiliate tracking software....needless to say, he was convinced.

    In the long run, I think it takes the types of AM's we have that frequent here to build/maintain a decent program. It's when a non-AM type comes in and starts getting greedy )i.e. reducing commissions/return days, etc.) that it can torpedo a program (which I think happened to a popular electronics retailer here not long ago).

    I think it all comes down to choice. If the majority of "profitable" affiliates (i.e. not dabblers, but those who KNOW how to drive the sales) begin choosing en masse to only support affiliate-friendly types of programs, those that aren't will either have to close their doors on the program, or fix it.

    OK...I just have to say this....

    [BEGIN SHAMELESS PLUG]

    Our program was designed to utilize the affiliate channel as the PRIMARY marketing channel (in fact, we are not currntely utilizing ANY PPC, etc.) We offer 20% LIFETIME commissions (tracked by cookie AND database) to our affiliates, as well as a number of dynamically updated "power tools" (datafeed, storebuilder, etc.) Being an affiliate marketer myself, this program was designed (and built using a custom-programmed system) with the affiliate in mind, and is currently responsible for over 50% of all revenue generated (a number which increases monthly)

    [/END SHAMELESS PLUG]


    Erik

    ==============================
    The AllPiercings.com Affiliate Program: 20% LIFETIME Commissions, 5% 2nd Tier Commissions, Affiliate Store Builder, Raw Datafeeds, and Advanced Tools.
    http://www.Allpiercings.com

  18. #18
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Poon and Adam nailed it right on the head...."They are NOT affiliates, they are lemmings"

    What do every SE and e-mail spamming affiliate or coupon pushing template sites have in common with all the BHO's a sleezey Dupers???

    They rush to signup with every damn program, worthless or not, without ever reading a merchant profile or TOS. The lemming game is to have 500 keyword rich merchants inside 1 week to push from a 5 page revolving door web site. Show me a newbee BHO or an template affiliate site with 500 domains Goggle seeks to whack monthly, who doesn't have 500 good-bad & ugly merchants.

    Someday Poon,I and a few others will get listened too that the sheep, like lemmings, will jump off the cliff when the herders get their Hooks & staffs taken from them by irrate shoppers. Want to hear the cries go up when Google bans or filters the word COUPON from their listings and ADword campaigns. Their lawyers are pushing for this right now!

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  19. #19
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Hey, what was the shortest cookie time you have seen? I seem to recall an outrageous cookie time posted here, one that only lasted a few minutes. Thought that might be a good candidate for the 'best of the worst' thread.

    Anyone remember? As I recall, the merchant actually announed it as an increase from an even sorter duration, like it was something to be proud of.

    Not from CJ, but linkshare or befree perhaps?

    - - - - - - - - -
    I will FOCUS on my goal, and I shall NOT be denied.

  20. #20
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    EC; I think that was Oriental Trading

    I think the last Sharper image newsletter also said the cookie duration was being changed something like
    .945 days what ever that was. Less than a complete day anyhow

    Almost as pathetic as programs who lower their affiliate percentages payouts

    ...............
    WW

    Make a difference! Support your local Cancer Care providers.

  21. #21
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    I was agreeing with the lemming comment, and I thought Leader's comments supporting short cookie merchants were lame, until I remembered what a lemming I am. Amazon.com is and will continue to be my number one partnership, unethical cookie or not.

  22. #22
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    That is about the only thing keeping Amazon from being a top flight affiliate program.

    There is, simply, no reason for a 1 day cookie other than to chince the affiliate out of a commission.

    Amazon, at least, has a trusted name, so the surfer might be willing to fork over the order fairly quickly, whereas a 1 day cookie from 'cheapandeztoastercovers.cc' would give a surfer pause.

    - - - - - - - - -
    I will FOCUS on my goal, and I shall NOT be denied.

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Cow Patch made a good point, too ...

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    Why do Merchants belittle themselves by using a 1 day cookie.

    Why not just go to CJ. Give a 120 day cookie, and then "Action Referral Occurrences" set at "1 time(s)".

    The results to our commissions are just about the same as a 1 day cookie.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The deeper we get into affiliate marketing, the more that kind of thing drives me nuts. There are times when that sort of thing makes sense (most lead-based programs, loans, etc.), but on merchandise, well, it doesn't.

    Karl Smith
    phillyBurbs - Your Internet Starts Here
    ---------
    Beware Parasiteware! It is stealing your money!
    [What is Parasiteware? click here to learn more]

  24. #24
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    Jimbo, if something is making you money, as a businessperson, it would be somewhat silly to "cut off your nose to spite your face". While I think it's always a good idea to contact a merchant and tell them what you think, you don't necessarily have to not partner with them. Everyone has to weigh the pros and cons for themselves. If being a "lemming" is what is going to put food on your table, then that's what you're going to have to do.

    I don't know what writing to Amazon about their compensation is going to do. But let's say you do it. And then someone else does it. And someone else. Maybe, inadvertently, you would be banding together to make a change. Maybe not. But you wouldn't feel like you were a lemming.

    As many other people have said before, this is business. It isn't always pretty. But there are things you can do to make things better for yourself. Stand up and voice your opinion to these programs. If you still need or want to do business with them, then do so.

    The only thing you need to do is make sure you understand the consequences of your actions, and know your own personal priorities.

    That said, I want to again reiterate the power of simply stating your opinion and what would make you work harder for your merchants. You'd be surprised how well that works. Maybe not for Amazon, but I bet they're not your only partner.

    -patrice

    patrice.colancecco.milligan
    affiliate.manager | eastwoodcompany.com
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  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador Nova's Avatar
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    I was checking merchants for one day cookie and found one at CJ and then found most of them are 1 occurrence!
    What's up with that?

    They give you up to 120 day cookie but they can't give you more than one occurrence! Geez!

    ------------------------------
    What does the COC stand for? Crooks Overwriting Commissions.
    Don't worry! Tracking is infected!
    ------------------------------
    Love Life to the fullest. we only get ONE chance! :-) !

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