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  1. #1
    Affiliate Manager Allen Nance's Avatar
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    Hello Big Boys,

    I want more in 04 and I need your help. I can ask for assistance since we are partners, right?

    I hope your wallets are fat after a nice holiday rush. Mine, were just so so.

    Thanks for being such a trusted partner. Man that gets thrown around like stink on sh$!.

    Ok, I want to trust you even more. I am going to go all out this year and build new sites to promote guess what?

    PARASITE FREE MERCHANTS. You merchants pay attention too.

    I will keep my current site up and running with the mostly infested merchants. (Except for those that have never performed) But all my new sites will not have any of those merchants that have slept with thieves and garnered the fruits of my labor and paid others for it, at the praising of the networks.

    Here's where I need your help. You said I could ask anytime, didn't you?

    You have recognized parasites as a way of doing business. Well pard, from your part of the partnership, I want to know which parasites are affiliated with all the merchants in your program. IE: Those that use a browser plug-in.

    I don't think it would be too hard for your programmers to program these lists into the merchant information page. That way, EVERY regular affiliate can make a choice of working with that merchant right up front instead of finding out down the road the reason their conversions suck is the merchants choice of partners..

    It's a simple request and I'd like to see your reply with a positive solution to even the playing field.

    Yours truly,

    Allen Nance
    US Funweb Networks

  2. #2
    Full Member ellen-s4y's Avatar
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    I emailed several merchants this week after seeing ebates popping while working on befree, test clicking new links I created.

    Of all the merchants I contacted, only ONE responded (a pet store merchant). She says, she spoke with ebates and told them to stop popping on affiliate links and if it doesn't stop they will be purged from her program.

    Time will tell, of course. But I do agree, we need some way to find out who's aligned with which BHO short of visiting the BHO sites themselves and infesting our computers.

  3. #3
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    In early January, ABW will have a directory of the various merchants which will detail who they are affiliated with (Parasitewise) and have a review section ... a very ugly mock up is located Here I'm still working on the GUI and DB.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  4. #4
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Ellen,

    It would be great if we could document the pops ... could you please fill out tickets for the cases @ http://www.abestweb.com/ebates/

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  5. #5
    Affiliate Manager Allen Nance's Avatar
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    Thank you Haiko,

    I think that will be a great site. But I still feel that there are hundreds of thousands of affiliates that do not access ABW and I believe that the Networks need to include it in the Merchant Site Description.

    I want Every affiliate to have the opportunity to discover which merchant will be a winner, looser or just so so of a partner.

    It's really time for the networks to give us back somthing as we were the ones that built them up long before browser plug-in's were around.

    Let's face it, The COC tried to satisfy our desires to have a level playing field. It just ain't so when it comes to money from the networks point of view.

    It's so funny that talking to many people at the networks internally they hate the parasites... But it comes down to stealing from the merchants, stealing from the other affiliates and quite frankly, they use to hang people for what they are doing.

    Allen Nance

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    Very cool Haiko, very cool.

    Looks like a lot of work to put together, but it will be a big help, thanks.

    I didn't think it was so ugly

    Fred

    You might just be a Redneck if - Birds are attracted to your beard...

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    Allen,

    Regretfully, we can only trust ourselves (read ABW), and our business sense (for those that have any).

    Fred

    You might just be a Redneck if - Birds are attracted to your beard...

  8. #8
    Full Member ellen-s4y's Avatar
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    Haiko, I just submitted 2 tickets. The overwriting all happened on the 15th. I haven't seen it so far today.

  9. #9
    Affiliate Addict Robert484848's Avatar
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    Thank you Haiko
    That will be a great addition to ABW!!

    "I did'nt get where I'm at today by worrying about how I'm going to feel tomorrow."

  10. #10
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    Great job Haiko!

    The networks are Not likely to help in any way on this.

    The most they will offer is STONE COLD SILENCE.

  11. #11
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    I'm totally with Allen on this one. We complained and complained about the "invisible referal occurances" and at least CJ did finally bring that important piece of information to the affiliates plain view.

    I beleive they are now also forcing affiliates to inform merchants of their practices but affiliates are still left in the dark. I recall someone being banned "I believe it was 180 solutions" where cj suppodidly withheld funds and revoked them but all they had to do was re-apply and openly state they used browser plug-ins "which was informed to merchants" and then it was business as usual.

    The above kind of crap isn't right but it's better for merchants to at least know what kind of affiliates they are dealing with.

    The same kind of knowledge being made so that affiliates know what kind of merchants they are dealing with is a mandatory step IMO to help stop networks and merchants from taking advantage of unsuspecting and unknowledgable affiliates by ways of non disclosure of important facts regarding a merchants program!

    As far as what Haiko is offering, I remain skeptical (and I dont say that to tick him or anyone else off). I recall this same kind of information that was going to be provided "long ago" and was broght up when perfectg suggested a web site to outline this kind of information. "Whatever right".

    The bottom line IMO is that Haiko or "we" will have one heck of a time updating this information and ensuring it accurate and even with that, as Allen points out - it's then only visible to the small number of affiliates that find this board. It needs to be a network implementation that "all affiliates can clearly see" and I second gearshoppers statements and requests for the networks to respond!

    ===================================
    Great News - we can now support ebates and pp merchants - they are cleaning up their act and I'll bet it'll be a long time before we see another clip of ebates overwriting affiliate links.
    ===================================

  12. #12
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Poon,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The bottom line IMO is that Haiko or "we" will have one heck of a time updating this information and ensuring it accurate and even with that, as Allen points out - it's then only visible to the small number of affiliates that find this board<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Absolutely! That's why the merchants will do it, Affiliate program listing services normally charge for listings but we'll do it for free as long as they promise to maintain the information. When they enter the information, well have help popups for the different fields especially the Parasite one ... it will list all known ones and ask them to opt into a new Pware Merchant alert system so that they will know what and whom to look out for. I really think that this, if marketed correctly, and I know we can, will add so much valuable information about merchants to all affiliates by also offering reviews and testing services in addition to program terms. The entire DB, members and merchants will be fully integrated into ABW4.0 as well.

    It's taken some time and a load of money but it will work!

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  13. #13
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    ?? Theres already sites out there with a list of merchants and all the parasites they belong too. A good complete list needs to made by affiliates, as long as its updated and correct. I don't understand wanting merchants to maintain and update there own list? Some merchants don't have a problem with working with parasites so a list run by merchants is useless, it's needs to be a list run by affiliates. Are you talking about a list for affiliates or merchants?

  14. #14
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    Haiko,

    I do see value to the offering but more so from an affiliate review concept than anything else.

    I would have to question
    1) "If" shady merchants would want to participate (they are going to agree to maintain it? - most merchants would not want to do this). The alternative is to pay for you to maintain it? ugggh - it seems clear they'll say - ugggh - No thanks.
    2) This sytem doesn't have a chance in hell of getting big corporations to come in here and admit they openly do business with known parasites - much less specifically state which ones they will or wont do business with!
    3) Again, even if they did do this the view is still very restricted.

    I don't think their is anyone in here knowledagble concerning parrasites and the effects they have on a program that wouldn't say "given equal conditions" partnering with parasites OR NOT has a huge impact on a non parasitic affiliates ability to get credit for a sale.

    Millions upon millions of these programs have been downloaded onto computers and many of them without ever having the consumers permission.

    Networks hiding dupers and known parasitic affiliates from affiliatesw should not be allowed any more so than they should be able to hide the fact from merchants that an affiliate utilizes brower plug-ins, bho's or whatever.

    I'll eagerly wait for Scott or Todd to come in here and tell us how the COC is addressing the issues but I doubt you'll see them in here. They've avoided every other thread like this in the past that made pleas to them and I doubt this will be any differnt - come on Todd and Scott take some bait and bite the hook wont you!

    The facts seem clear that the networks and merchants have a vested interest in not disclosing facts that have a significant effect regarding an affiliates ability to earn money from their work as well as the true earnings potential of a program. This is much more than unfair to affiliates on a massive scale and I hope that this kind of crap will be remedied!

    ===================================
    Great News - we can now support ebates and pp merchants - they are cleaning up their act and I'll bet it'll be a long time before we see another clip of ebates overwriting affiliate links.
    ===================================

  15. #15
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    Is this to be a list of ONLY merchants that are somehow Verified (repeatedly, every so often) to be "Parasite Free"?

  16. #16
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...3&m=5536066653

    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...953#1486040953

    Great read for all is this entire thread..

    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?q=Y&a=...2226053081&p=7

    Haiko dust off what was to be the only positive outcome of the CoC conference over a year ago. Someone was going to leverage the affiliate and AM position by forcing the networks to become transparent in merchant profiles as to the diversion tactics and BHO partnerships potentually undermining commission/conversion capabilities.

    Can't you'all see the opportunity to get the affiliate industries dirty linen out into prime time media spot light is right now! Gates will un-plug the plug-ins and the shoppers hate popups and spam more then Bin Laden....who they can ignor. The role of the affiliate needs to be narrowed and those playing this commission game need to stop planting land mines for the shoppers to navigate through and open quickie marts on the info highway.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  17. #17
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    Mike the first 2 links you posted i'm getting
    "You have not been given the security rights to access this page."

    I work in lounge pants

  18. #18
    Affiliate Manager Allen Nance's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TrustNo1®:
    Mike the first 2 links you posted i'm getting
    "You have not been given the security rights to access this page."

    I work in lounge pants <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Mike goofed,... Private topic

    I look for the day, when every affiliate from every nation can climb to the mountain top and yell,
    'Free again, Free Again."

    Today is a national day of parasite free shopping.

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador
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    >partnering with parasites OR NOT has a huge impact on a non parasitic affiliates ability to get credit for a sale.

    We hate parasites as much as everyone else BUT the impact IS NOT huge.

    It is just an impact that needs to be crushed like a bug.

    Mike Mackin

  20. #20
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    I think every affiliate hates parasites but 2 things.

    Some parasite riddled merchants convert better than non-parasitic riddled merchants because usually they are big brands and people trust big brands.

    You can have nothing but parasite-free merchants on your site and still have your site popped on. A merchant can partner with a parasite and get in an agreement to pop ads on their parasite free competitor trying to get their traffic.

    The networks will always let shopping aps affiliates and affiliates called parasites in the network and they leave it up to you on who to partner with. I mean what more proof do you need than videos posted here?

  21. #21
    Affiliate Manager Allen Nance's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TrustNo1®:
    I think every affiliate hates parasites but 2 things.

    Some parasite riddled merchants convert better than non-parasitic riddled merchants because usually they are big brands and people trust big brands.

    You can have nothing but parasite-free merchants on your site and still have your site popped on. A merchant can partner with a parasite and get in an agreement to pop ads on their parasite free competitor trying to get their traffic. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yes you are right, but imagine YOUR commissions if you didn't have to compete with them!



    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TrustNo1®:

    The networks will always let shopping aps affiliates and affiliates called parasites in the network and they leave it up to you on who to partner with. I mean what more proof do you need than videos posted here?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yes, I understand that, but all I am asking is that the networks show good faith to affiliates and provide them with a list of the parasites a merchant is affiliated with.

    I mean it isn't proprietary information or secret secrets. Just a convienece for all affiliates to know whom they are going to let 50% of their commissions go to.

    Allen Nance

  22. #22
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    I have to remember not to sign up with yada yada.

    I could type much better if I had knuckles

  23. #23
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    Gearshopper i agree with you on everything but

    "all I am asking is that the networks show good faith to affiliates and provide them with a list of the parasites a merchant is affiliated with"

    Problem is networks don't consider them parasites, affiliates do. They might sacrifice an up and coming parasite but no way will they ever kick out producers, some networks even promote them to merchants. You remember the videos you posted about igive? even wayne who moderated the November meetings agreed the videos show direct overwriting. What was done?

  24. #24
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Some parasite riddled merchants convert better than non-parasitic riddled merchants because usually they are big brands and people trust big brands.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    There is truth here which is why I added in my initial post "given equal conditions". If two program were exactly the same except one partnered with parasites and one didn't - the amount of earnings potential in the non parasitic program would be greatly enhanced.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>We hate parasites as much as everyone else BUT the impact IS NOT huge.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    You may think that from what you've seen but it's safe to say conditions vary greatly where impact is felt more tan others.

    I'd say pretty comfortably that around 90 percent of our earnings come from promotional
    efforts on no more than 2% of the merchants (who happen to be parasite free).
    Would this qualify or indicate the impact is HUGE? I think it would.

    ===================================
    Great News - we can now support ebates and pp merchants - they are cleaning up their act and I'll bet it'll be a long time before we see another clip of ebates overwriting affiliate links.
    ===================================

  25. #25
    Affiliate Manager Allen Nance's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TrustNo1®:

    Problem is networks don't consider them parasites, affiliates do. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I am not asking for them to drop the parasites. But to make the merchants have a disclosure that shows all BHO merchants they are associated wiht.

    I am sure a little program can tag these BHO affiliates and when someone clicks on the merchant info link, they will get

    This merchant works with BHO affiliates:
    #1
    #2
    #3

    etc...


    Very simple to let all non BHO users understand what kind of merchant they will be working with.

    Allen

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